Help with batch sparge settings on beersmith.

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emgesp1

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So, I have exactly the amount of dead space that is in my MLT and I clicked the sparge using equal size batches, but I don't know if the amount of mash and sparge water is correct.

Type: All Grain
Date: 10/21/2009
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 6.41 gal
Boil Time: 60 min

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
12.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 86.02 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 7.17 %
0.75 lb Rye, Flaked (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.38 %
0.20 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 1.43 %
1.00 oz Warrior [15.00 %] (60 min) Hops 47.0 IBU
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] (30 min) Hops 12.1 IBU
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (5 min) Hops 5.3 IBU
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] (5 min) Hops 3.1 IBU
5.00 gal Chicago, IL Water
1 Pkgs California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [Starter 35 ml] Yeast-Ale



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.070 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.010 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.016 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.005 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.15 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.65 %
Bitterness: 67.5 IBU Calories: 43 cal/pint
Est Color: 14.3 SRM Color: Color


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge Total Grain Weight: 13.95 lb
Sparge Water: 4.47 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F TunTemperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 17.44 qt of water at 168.9 F 154.0 F
 
If you are using 1.25 qts/lb of grain it looks correct (17.44 qts/4 qts = 4.36 gallons). If you are only doing one single sparge then the 4.47 (4.5)gallons seems correct, if you are going to double batch sparge, then in the mash details, you need to set your fill tun volume to 50%. Otherwise your numbers look accurate. Beersmith has done fine by me.
 
Default is 90% if I'm not mistaken, but if you plan on a single sparge I would leave it at 100%, if you play with that percentage, you will see how it effects the sparge volume, but IIRC, between 90% and 100% there won't be a difference since your total sparge water volume will be 4.47 gallons regardless.
 
Off-topic, but I'd hate to start a new thread just for this one question.


Do you think 5% Rye in the total grain bill will be noticeable? I want some rye character in there, but just enough to taste.


Thanks for all your help, it is much appreciated.
 
I have yet to use Rye, but I have a recipe formualted with about 15% rye that I will be brewing soon, If you want a super subtle rye spice (barely noticeable) I think 5% would do that, if you want to be able to tell there is rye in there I would go 10% and upwards of 20% for a distinguishable rye character. Also, from my research Rye malt will give you more of a spicy rye character than flaked rye will, so it depends on exactly what your shooting for.

Try it with your 5%, and if it isn't enough bump it up next time. It is definitely better to have less than too much.
 
Thanks that helps a lot.

I honestly don't mind a huge rye character, but I want to share this brew with many other people, so I don't want to go overboard on the rye.

Some people just can't stand rye, but I love it.
 
New Belgium has a seasonal brew called Hoptober, its like a Rye APA, the spicy notes from the rye make the beer what it is, otherwise it would just be another APA. Good stuff.
 
Ultimately you want to end up with the right amount in the brew kettle. I know my system boils over almost 1.5 gal/hr. I learned by trial and error. I do 6 gallon batches because I know I'll lose half a gallon by leaving the junk behind in the kettle, and half a gallon leaving trub behind in the carboy and I want to keg a full 5 gal.

So for a 6 gallon batch I need 7.5 gallons in the kettle. You'll end up somewhere between 7 and 7.5 depending on your evaporation rate. Make a note every time you brew the first few times of exactly how much is in the kettle pre and post boil. I poured one gallon jugs into the kettle and marked a pipe with a sharpie. This was my measuring stick so I could just drop it into the kettle and immediately know the amount of liquid in there.

Because the grain absorbs all of the liquid it can during the mash, it doesn't really absorb much if any of your sparge water. So you don't really need to calculate your sparge water before hand. Just decide on a water to grain ratio for the mash, say 1.25 in your case and once the mash is done drain that off. Your ultimate goal is to drain off your final volume plus your boiloff amount. In my case it's 6 gallons desired final volume, plus 1.5 gallons for boil off for a one hour boil. So I need 7.5 gallons before I begin my boil. So say I get 2.5 gallons from the initial run, I need 5 more gallons. Your sparge will be basically a 1:1 ratio in and out so for a 2.5 initial drain I will add 5 gallons of sparge water and I will be able to drain off all 5 gallons to hit my 7.5.

Once you get your process down you'll pretty much be able to do all the calculations on the fly which is nice. I just use a calc to determine my strike temp for the mash and I sparge at 180 degrees. Hope this helps!
 
Ultimately you want to end up with the right amount in the brew kettle. I know my system boils over almost 1.5 gal/hr. I learned by trial and error. I do 6 gallon batches because I know I'll lose half a gallon by leaving the junk behind in the kettle, and half a gallon leaving trub behind in the carboy and I want to keg a full 5 gal.

So for a 6 gallon batch I need 7.5 gallons in the kettle. You'll end up somewhere between 7 and 7.5 depending on your evaporation rate. Make a note every time you brew the first few times of exactly how much is in the kettle pre and post boil. I poured one gallon jugs into the kettle and marked a pipe with a sharpie. This was my measuring stick so I could just drop it into the kettle and immediately know the amount of liquid in there.

Because the grain absorbs all of the liquid it can during the mash, it doesn't really absorb much if any of your sparge water. So you don't really need to calculate your sparge water before hand. Just decide on a water to grain ratio for the mash, say 1.25 in your case and once the mash is done drain that off. Your ultimate goal is to drain off your final volume plus your boiloff amount. In my case it's 6 gallons desired final volume, plus 1.5 gallons for boil off for a one hour boil. So I need 7.5 gallons before I begin my boil. So say I get 2.5 gallons from the initial run, I need 5 more gallons. Your sparge will be basically a 1:1 ratio in and out so for a 2.5 initial drain I will add 5 gallons of sparge water and I will be able to drain off all 5 gallons to hit my 7.5.

Once you get your process down you'll pretty much be able to do all the calculations on the fly which is nice. I just use a calc to determine my strike temp for the mash and I sparge at 180 degrees. Hope this helps!

I thought both runnings need to be equal for best brewhouse efficiency?

Shouldn't the amount of your first runnings that is collected in your kettle be more like 3.75 gallons and then sparge with another 3.75 if your aiming for 7.5 gallons preboil?
 
I follow the method described by cvstrat. Use BeerSmith to figure my mash temperature and volume. After draining, see how much I still need to hit my target volume and that's how much I sparge, divided into two sparges.
 
Even at a 1.5:1 water to grain ratio you aren't going to drain off enough to have a 50/50 split due to absorbtion.
 
I thought both runnings need to be equal for best brewhouse efficiency?

Shouldn't the amount of your first runnings that is collected in your kettle be more like 3.75 gallons and then sparge with another 3.75 if your aiming for 7.5 gallons preboil?

Your first runnings volume will be based on the qts/lb used, and grain absorbtion. Many batch spargers use a double batch sparge method and split their sparge water volume equally, and sparge twice.

I don't think that a single sparge would necessarily be more efficient, actually two sparges would rinse more sugar from the grains increasing efficiency. However, some data shows that the wort quality is better with a single sparge, or even a no sparge.

I double batch sparge without mashing out and get ~80% brewhouse efficiency.
 
I thought both runnings need to be equal for best brewhouse efficiency?

Shouldn't the amount of your first runnings that is collected in your kettle be more like 3.75 gallons and then sparge with another 3.75 if your aiming for 7.5 gallons preboil?
You also have to calculate your total grain bill. Think of it, there is no way you can get the same volume out of the mash if you have a 20lb grain bill compared to a 10lb grain bill. Unless you want mash soup for the 10lb grain bill.

Yo, cvstrat sweet method for the "on the fly" calculations I will have to try that. I double batch sparge and have never done this I kind of feel like a dufus for not doing so.:drunk:
 
Then what do people mean when they say you want equal size runnings?

After the mash, you vorlauf and drain - that is the first running.

Then, many people sparge *twice* - those are the volume amounts that are usually/often the equal in size.

And efficiency isn't your goal - good quality wort at the right gravity and in the right volume is. You can achieve that with 60% efficiency or 80%.
 
I don't know why I thought it meant you wanted to collect just as much wort from your 1st (initial mash) runnings as your 2nd (sparge) runnings.

So, should I uncheck sparge using equal size batches?
 
See why does this guy say different.

"The Basic Batch Sparging Technique"

Using the Batch Sparging method, your goal is to collect two equal volumes of the total wort to be boiled in two mash tun runnings. The first running will be the wort collected from your initial mash. The second will be the wort collected from your sparge.
To achieve this, you will first need to know how much water each step requires. There are lots of formulas that you may have seen that help you figure this out. The water calculation process is a whole article to itself. For now, let me just recommend that you use one of the spreadsheets available on the internet or, better yet, use an inexpensive program like BeerSmith that will help you figure out these exact volumes.

So let's say you have used your BeerSmith program and it says that you need to mash with 4.5 gallons, and sparge with 3.6 gallons in order to achieve two batches of 3.5 gallon wort. Here is how you would procede:

Step 1 - Add your 4.5 gallons and grain together in your mash tun at the correct strike temperature (also calculated in your handy BeerSmith program.) Let it sit for an hour or so.

Step 2 - Open the valve on your mash tun and drain 1 - 2 quarts into a pitcher. Take this and slowly pour it back into the mash tun so as to not disturb the grain bed. Repeat three or four times or until there is no particulate matter coming out and the wort is as clear as it is going to get. This is called the vorlauf and is used to help set the grain bed to be used as a filter when you are draining.

Step 3 - Drain your mash tun completely. Measure the volume for future reference.

Step 4 - Fill your mash tun with the amount of sparge water your calculated earlier. The temperature should be somewhere around 175 degrees. Stir the grain bed to get all those sugars back into solution, and let it sit for about 10 minutes.

Step 5 - Repeat Step 2 by draining and replacing 1 - 2 Quarts at a time until it is relatively clear. You will notice that, this time, your wort has less color than the last step.

Step 6 - Open the spigot and drain this volume into your boil pot. Again, measure the volume for future reference.
 
See why does this guy say different.

"The Basic Batch Sparging Technique"

Using the Batch Sparging method, your goal is to collect two equal volumes of the total wort to be boiled in two mash tun runnings. The first running will be the wort collected from your initial mash. The second will be the wort collected from your sparge.
To achieve this, you will first need to know how much water each step requires. There are lots of formulas that you may have seen that help you figure this out. The water calculation process is a whole article to itself. For now, let me just recommend that you use one of the spreadsheets available on the internet or, better yet, use an inexpensive program like BeerSmith that will help you figure out these exact volumes.

So let's say you have used your BeerSmith program and it says that you need to mash with 4.5 gallons, and sparge with 3.6 gallons in order to achieve two batches of 3.5 gallon wort. Here is how you would procede:

Step 1 - Add your 4.5 gallons and grain together in your mash tun at the correct strike temperature (also calculated in your handy BeerSmith program.) Let it sit for an hour or so.

Step 2 - Open the valve on your mash tun and drain 1 - 2 quarts into a pitcher. Take this and slowly pour it back into the mash tun so as to not disturb the grain bed. Repeat three or four times or until there is no particulate matter coming out and the wort is as clear as it is going to get. This is called the vorlauf and is used to help set the grain bed to be used as a filter when you are draining.

Step 3 - Drain your mash tun completely. Measure the volume for future reference.

Step 4 - Fill your mash tun with the amount of sparge water your calculated earlier. The temperature should be somewhere around 175 degrees. Stir the grain bed to get all those sugars back into solution, and let it sit for about 10 minutes.

Step 5 - Repeat Step 2 by draining and replacing 1 - 2 Quarts at a time until it is relatively clear. You will notice that, this time, your wort has less color than the last step.

Step 6 - Open the spigot and drain this volume into your boil pot. Again, measure the volume for future reference.


This is another method - single sparge. Some people do no sparge. Cvstrat and I were sharing with you a method many people use - double sparge. They can all work - choose the one that makes sense to you.

In the double sparge method, measure the volume of the first runnings, subtract it from the the total volume you want, divide it in two and that's the amount you use in each sparge. Its very easy.

Edit: I just noticed we both live in Oak Lawn - small world!
 
This is another method - single sparge. Some people do no sparge. Cvstrat and I were sharing with you a method many people use - double sparge. They can all work - choose the one that makes sense to you.

In the double sparge method, measure the volume of the first runnings, subtract it from the the total volume you want, divide it in two and that's the amount you use in each sparge. Its very easy.

Edit: I just noticed we both live in Oak Lawn - small world!

So, I don't have to worry about adding 1/2 gallon of sparge water per lb of grain like someone on the all-grain board recommended?

Beersmith says to add 2.24 gal per sparge. Will I get better extraction this way than the way I was going to do it by just adding all the 3.97 gallons of water?
 
Ok, I now understand how to do equal batches. Here is how I have beersmith setup.

Batch Sparge using batches that fill 100%

Sparge using equal size batches

I'm adding a bit of sparge water before I collect the initial mash runnings and then all I have to do is sparge with the same amount of first runnings that was collected into the kettle plus .75 gallons, because of the dead space in my MLT. So, I'm only doing 2 seperate runnings, but they will now be equal.
 
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