A couple beginners questions re: Primary/Secondary

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bfinleyui

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First post, I apologize ahead of time for the dumb questions, and I apologize if they've been answered elsewhere. I've tried searching as much as possible (my lack of productivity at work today can attest to that...), but a few questions remain. First, my situation:

Picked up a Brewer's Best Deluxe kit (primary bucket, better bottle secondary, bottling bucket + accessories) as my first foray into the scene.

My first extract kit I picked up (might be partial mash, i guess, since there's steeping involved...), was the Brewer's Best Witbier. The (extremely helpful and knowledgeable) guy at the shop said I didn't need a secondary on a wheat , that I'd probably be fine with about 7-10 days in primary, then when I hit the right FG, going right to the bottling. The instruction sheet in the extract kit still suggested a secondary.

A few questions:

1. Is there somewhere I can go to figure out which beers work best with/without a secondary before bottling? Would a secondary hurt it, beyond the possibility of contamination?

2. Similarly, is there anywhere (other than a general search of google/forums) that has recommended guidelines for primary/secondary fermentation times? Obviously the hydrometer is the only true 'when is it done?' determining factor, but just in terms of planning, it'd be nice to have some way of knowing "Oh, I can knock this wit out in 2 weeks, but this holiday ale is going to take 2 months..."...

3. I've seen all sorts of information out there on water. The tap water here isn't particularly awesome, drinking-wise. I run it through a Brita filter to drink, personally. For an extract kit, should I use tap water? Brita? Bottled? Magical unicorn tears?

4. Outside of collecting bottles from friends, where's the best place to buy some 12oz bottles? Is there a 'secret' online shop that everyone uses, or just wherever you happen to run across a good deal?

For now, that's about all I've got. I'm sure I'll be back here freaking out on Saturday afternoon as I'm halfway through my first brew day. Then I'll be on Amazon Monday ordering a second primary (didn't realize a second primary was so cheap, o lawd).

Thanks for the community that's already been developed here, I hope to become a part of it. Haven't even brewed my first batch and I think I'm already hooked.
 
Hi there. I'm new to the forum, but have been brewing a while. Many will argue for or against a secondary. I always secondary for a few reasons. 1) it will clear your beer a bit more than just a primary. 2) it gets the beer off od the inactive and dead yeast cells. 3) I find it easier to harvest yeast when I transfer. 4) I get to have a few cold ones when I'm "working" on something :mug:
It took me about a while to get enough bottles to have a surplus for more batches, but a hint for removing the labels is to soak them overnight in oxiclean... awesome stuff (and lots of other uses in the brewery). Also ALWAYS cleab sanitize and check each bottle before you rack (aka bottle). Bottle bombs are dangerous and leave a horrible mess.
Regarding how long to ferment, definately rely on the hydrometer. When you think it's done, take a reading... wait 2-3 days and do it again. If no change, THEN you know youre done. Can't always rely on what the recipe says. Also, the recipies here are great and filled with "How I did it" so search the recipe form and try to mimic some of the other Brewer's technique. The best part about this hobby is you get to experimsbt a lot and enjoy the fruits of your labor.
Cheers
 
1/2. Just keep reading and experimenting. Huge debates on this site about need for secondaries. I personally only use secondary when adding fruit, aging on wood or with long (>6 weeks usually) fermentation/conditioning. The general feeling is no need to use a secondary for most beers.

Timing for fermentation is up to the yeast. As you said, once FG stabilizes for a couple days, it's technically done fermenting. Leaving it to condition helps flavors and clearing of your beer though.

I've worked out a deal w my local beer shop where I pay $0.05 for empty bottles (that's free + the bottle deposit). Guy there told me they get something like seven cents per bottle they return, but since I give him a brew every once in a while, he's cool with losing a few cents. I'd also suggest getting full bottles and drinking them. Yes, it's more expensive, but you get to enjoy/research.

I forgot your other questions and I'm on my phone app so can't flip. At least this starts to answer your question. Good luck with your first adventure!
 
Thanks. I'm going to stick with extract right now for my first half dozen or so, then I'll look into all grain recipes for a bit more control.
 
1. Is there somewhere I can go to figure out which beers work best with/without a secondary before bottling? Would a secondary hurt it, beyond the possibility of contamination?

2. Similarly, is there anywhere (other than a general search of google/forums) that has recommended guidelines for primary/secondary fermentation times? Obviously the hydrometer is the only true 'when is it done?' determining factor, but just in terms of planning, it'd be nice to have some way of knowing "Oh, I can knock this wit out in 2 weeks, but this holiday ale is going to take 2 months..."...

3. I've seen all sorts of information out there on water. The tap water here isn't particularly awesome, drinking-wise. I run it through a Brita filter to drink, personally. For an extract kit, should I use tap water? Brita? Bottled? Magical unicorn tears?

4. Outside of collecting bottles from friends, where's the best place to buy some 12oz bottles? Is there a 'secret' online shop that everyone uses, or just wherever you happen to run across a good deal?

For now, that's about all I've got. I'm sure I'll be back here freaking out on Saturday afternoon as I'm halfway through my first brew day. Then I'll be on Amazon Monday ordering a second primary (didn't realize a second primary was so cheap, o lawd).

Thanks for the community that's already been developed here, I hope to become a part of it. Haven't even brewed my first batch and I think I'm already hooked.


Answers are IMO:

1. Secondary isn't needed unless you are going to let the beer sit for a very long time, dry-hopping or adding something post active fermentation. Inactive yeast that fell out of suspension won't harm the beer unless you let it sit for many months. The beer will still clear up without a secondary.

2. Primary depends on how high of a gravity, pitched yeast and temperature. If you secondary it'll be done when gravity is close to target FG. Lasts as long as you want.

3. Try to stay away from tap due to chemicals to clarify the water. Brita is good and so is bottled water.

4. Don't buy bottles online and keep saving from friends or buy from LHBS as shipping costs almost double the purchase price. There may be a site worthwhile, but from what I see is most sites list a 12oz case for $11-15 w/ shipping being $8-12 because of glass being fragile.

Check out www.howtobrew.com for a good read on brewing. It's in an easy beginner-advance brewing order.

Don't forget to read the sticky on extract brewing. Talks about crummy kit instructions.
 
Forgot to mention I dry hop almost everything...I live in the Northwest and, well, brew a lot of Nw Pale ales and double NWPAs too... love me some hoppy goodness :)
I always use bottled h2o from a disributor that delivers 5 gal bottles. Happy brewing! Cheers to all
 
Thank you. It makes sense, but if I'm reading that right, the primary can last (within reason) as long as you want it to? It's not going to go bad or anything if it sits a week longer, but it *can* be bad (as in exploding bottles bad) if I bottle too early.

Duh, makes sense. The yeast has x amount of energy it can generate, when it runs out, you're done, but if you stop early, kaboom.
 
In a way yes, but there are factors that contribute to beer going bad in time. I leave my beers in primary for 3-4 weeks if I don't rack to secondary. If I secondary its only if I dry-hop or add fruit which adds 7-14 days.

SG reading to get your FG is important before you bottle so you don't get exploding bottles. This where people just think that the bubbling slowed so I can just prime and bottle.

Keep bottle conditioning temp between 70-72F as the yeast goes active again and high temp brings off-flavors that may not go away.
 
What he said! I primary for 5-10 days, then secondary for approx 2 weeks. Let the yeast work it's magic. This, for me, was the hardest part in the beginning cuz I wanted to try the brew. Now I patiently wait for fermentation while I enjoy a delicious homebrew. Good luck! I hope this helps.
 
Currently steeping and having a lot of trouble getting it to stick between 148-152,the temp varies depending on the part of the pot I measure from... Any tips/how much have I fudged things up if I've varied between 145 and 155?
 
Currently steeping and having a lot of trouble getting it to stick between 148-152,the temp varies depending on the part of the pot I measure from... Any tips/how much have I fudged things up if I've varied between 145 and 155?

For steeping, it doesn't matter a bit. As long as you stay under 170, you're fine.
 
I will rack to secondary for mead, and if there is a high amount (to me) of "stuff" on the bottom for beer. Racked my last one to secondary after about 2 weeks and it started to clear big time the next day. I feel secondary can speed up clearing and help get more stuff to settle out. As always, YMMV.
 
1. If you don't have experience with siphoning my advice is to avoid secondary. It is is questionable anyway.

2. I usually leave it in primary for 2+ weeks depending on OG. For regular OG beers 2 weeks is fine to start.

3. For extract brewing use your tap water- if it is good for drink it is good for brewing.

4. I got my bottles from friends. You'll be amazed how many people will give you bottles after tasting homebrewed beer :)
 
I was going to say that this sounds more like an extract with steeping grains kit. So steeping from 150-165F will do fine for 30 minutes.
I usually give my beers 3 weeks in primary for average gravity ales. When it hits Fg,it gets another 3-7 days to clean up & settle out clear or slightly misty. Def misty for a wheat ale. I generally don't secondary. I even do dry hopping in primary for a week before bottling & they're great.
Just make sure bottles saved for you are the pop top variety. Twist tops are hit & miss,& the glass is thinner.
 
Thanks to everyone who answered my dumb questions in this thread.

Ended up steeping averaging around 149 (the kit instructions, which i know now are cruddy, said to absolutely not go over 155), for a bit over 30 minutes, to make up for the lower temps.

Rehydrated the yeast, didn't get much, if any, bubbling on the Safbrew WB-06 after laying it on top of 105 degree water. Was a little worried on that, let it sit for 15, swirled, let it sit for 15 more.

Aerated the wort at the very end of my cool down (to help it cool), did a splashdown into the bucket, tossed in the bottled water, did a bit more aeration there with some stirring. OG was 1.046 (kit says 1.045-1.049).

Pitched the yeast at 68, sealed it up, spent some time figuring out how exactly to assemble the airlock (not exactly intuitive to a newbie), got that in, and off to the swamp at about 11pm last night.

Woke up around 6am and checked on it, and had some good bubbling going through the airlock (like I said, worried about the yeast), so I was happy to see that action so early.

Ambient temp is somewhere around 72-73 in my apartment, so I've kept it in a constant swamp of ice water. First day was a little warmer, hovering in the 65-67 side of things.

I read up on here that higher temps leads to a bit more banana-y taste, whereas the lower side brings the clove out a bit more, so today, I've been keeping it a bit lower, in the 61-63 range, with the occasional jump up to 64-65 if the ice melts.

On a side note, I spent the day working on a son of fermentation chiller, waiting for the glue (used gorilla glue instead of the liquid nails, along with some regular bathroom caulk to seal the inside seams) to dry, and hope to transfer it over there before church in the morning.

Wired up a 120mm fan to run at a lower RPM via USB (thus quieter, while pushing the same amount of air as an 80mm fan without the switching to push it from 3v to 12v) that I'll power via USB, which will eventually be a raspberry pi for a bit more detailed temp control and logging.

A few pics attached. My carpentry skills suck, but the functionality should be good.

Thanks for all the help, I'll keep you guys updated when I hit bottling.

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Quick update about 3 days into primary. Airlock activity has slowed to 4 or 5 burps a minute (down from once every 2 seconds).

After reading the infection thread, I couldn't resist taking a look (first brew, i know, bad idea, but couldn't help myself), and was relieved to see (what appears to be) a healthy fermentation with the Krausen already having mostly settled (if the rings of goop are any indication)... Seem correct to y'all?

Been very well temperature controlled, with the stuck-on thermometer never getting above 65, most of the time in the 62-63 range using the SoFC mentioned in the previous post, with two 120mm fans inside, one pushing air into the main chamber, the other pulling it out.

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