Need Help With 1/2" SS Counter Flow Chiller Build

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ahave

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I have a spare roll of 50ft of thin-wall SS tubing, my thought was to upgrade my setup to use a counter flow chiller. I understand how to put together a copper based CF chiller, but I am having a hard time piecing the parts for a SS version. I mostly blame this on the fact that I can't go to Home Depot and look at what is on the shelf.

I would like to put the chiller together just as I would a copper one, soldering/brazing each joint. I can either make one like this, with a reducer or I could just drill out an end cap and solder the inner coil to it. The problem is I am finding it hard to search for these items when I do not know the proper terminology.

My thought was to use a 3/4" SS TEE for tubing, which should provide a tight connection to a 3/4" rubber garden hose (5/8" is too tight IMO). From there I need to find a way to step it down to 1/2" tubing and camlock style connectors.

What is the connection called that will allow me to solder/braze SS tubing?
Using Google, I didn't see any build threads. Has anyone else put together a 1/2" SS chiller?
Am I overlooking any other build options? Compression fittings seem overly expensive compared to solder/braze joints.
 
Copper fittings will sweat to stainlesss steel just fine if you use the correct flux.
Otherwise you will need to use stainless steel compression fittings and drill them out the stops in the comprssion adapters so the tube will pass through.

Another choice is to drill out a bushing or threaded plug to pass the tubing through, thread it in the tee, and then solder that to the tube to form the seal.

Buy a cobalt drill bit if you are drilling a 1/2" compression adapter. There is a quite a bit of metal to remove.
 
Thanks for the tips/links! I did not know that copper and SS could share a sweat joint without issue. Given that I am using a $70 SS inner tube, I think it is worth the effort/ca$h to make all the fittings SS.

I will look into using a 3/4" TEE with NPT fittings and drilling out an end cap as suggested.

Thanks!

BargainFittings.com shows out of stock on all 3/4" fittings, is this true?
I would like to keep my business within the homebrew community in lieu of Ebay (aka China).
 
Thanks for the tips/links! I did not know that copper and SS could share a sweat joint without issue. Given that I am using a $70 SS inner tube, I think it is worth the effort/ca$h to make all the fittings SS.

I will look into using a 3/4" TEE with NPT fittings and drilling out an end cap as suggested.

Thanks!

BargainFittings.com shows out of stock on all 3/4" fittings, is this true?
I would like to keep my business within the homebrew community in lieu of Ebay (aka China).

I have some 3/4" fittings in stock. I need to update the site. I'll check tomorrow if I have the 3/4" tees.

Wayne.
 
Sounds like a cool project. So are you planning on straightening the roll and inserting it into the outer tubing/hose, then coiling it back up? If so, can you do that without kinking it? My understanding was compared to soft copper tubing, stainless tubing was a complete ***** to bend without kinking.
 
Thanks! Ill update the thread as my project continues. Straightening my tubing would certainly destroy what tubing I have. I feel confident that I will be able to pull/push the outer hose over my hose - as long as it is 3/4", no way 5/8" would work. Vaseline will of course be my friend. The reason why it is 'bonus' in the first place is b/c I tried to hand bend it and ended up kinking it. The kinks are not bad enough to limit flow, but they were bad enough to limit my ability to continue to reduce the diameter size.

So far my mental list is this below. As you can see by the lack of links, I am still sourcing the SS components.
Hx Tubing
50ft SS thin wall coil
50ft 3/4" all rubber/hot water garden hose

Terminal Ends [All SS] (x2)
3/4" SS NPT TEE
3/4" NPT Male to 3/4" Barb Fitting (to connect to garden hose)
3/4" NPT Male to 1/2" Female Fitting (to output to camlock/whatever)
3/4" NPT Male Plug (to dirll/bore out and solder to allow 0.5" SS tubing to pass through)
1/2" NPT Male to 1/2" compression OR 1/2" NPT Male to solder-able fitting for SS

Just found this site, has anyone used it before?
http://www.zorotools.com
 
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That makes sense. Lube the hell out of it and I hope it works out without causing too much frustration.

Re zorotools.com, I've used them once. I bought the 12" sheave for my grain mill from them. If I recall correctly, the shipping was very fast and I think I had my order within two or three days.
 
Thanks! Ill update the thread as my project continues. Straightening my tubing would certainly destroy what tubing I have. I feel confident that I will be able to pull/push the outer hose over my hose - as long as it is 3/4", no way 5/8" would work. Vaseline will of course be my friend. The reason why it is 'bonus' in the first place is b/c I tried to hand bend it and ended up kinking it. The kinks are not bad enough to limit flow, but they were bad enough to limit my ability to continue to reduce the diameter size.

So far my mental list is this below. As you can see by the lack of links, I am still sourcing the SS components.
Hx Tubing
50ft SS thin wall coil
50ft 3/4" all rubber/hot water garden hose

Terminal Ends [All SS] (x2)
3/4" SS NPT TEE
3/4" NPT Male to 3/4" Barb Fitting (to connect to garden hose)
3/4" NPT Male to 1/2" Female Fitting (to output to camlock/whatever)
3/4" NPT Male Plug (to dirll/bore out and solder to allow 0.5" SS tubing to pass through)
1/2" NPT Male to 1/2" compression OR 1/2" NPT Male to solder-able fitting for SS

Just found this site, has anyone used it before?
http://www.zorotools.com

resurrecting an old thread - did you ever build this, and if so, how did it work? Are you able to cool to water-in temps at maximum wort flow-rate through the SS coil? Any idea what the max flow-rate is (how long does it take you to run a 5 gallon or a 10 gallon batch through the coil)??

I'm thinking of doing the same thing but I'm worried that with 1/2" coil in 3/4" hose there may not be enough water flowing around the SS to make full use of the cooling capacity of the coil, so I'm thinking of using 1" hose instead.

I've made a 25' copper+garden hose CFC before and managed to get the hose wound around the coil without too much difficulty (and no Vaseline :) - how easy/hard was it for you to get you 3/4" hose wound around your 1/2" coil and do you think it would be easier or harder with 1" hose?

thanks,

-fafrd
 
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Thanks! Ill update the thread as my project continues. Straightening my tubing would certainly destroy what tubing I have. I feel confident that I will be able to pull/push the outer hose over my hose - as long as it is 3/4", no way 5/8" would work. Vaseline will of course be my friend. The reason why it is 'bonus' in the first place is b/c I tried to hand bend it and ended up kinking it. The kinks are not bad enough to limit flow, but they were bad enough to limit my ability to continue to reduce the diameter size.

So far my mental list is this below. As you can see by the lack of links, I am still sourcing the SS components.
Hx Tubing
50ft SS thin wall coil
50ft 3/4" all rubber/hot water garden hose

Terminal Ends [All SS] (x2)
3/4" SS NPT TEE
3/4" NPT Male to 3/4" Barb Fitting (to connect to garden hose)
3/4" NPT Male to 1/2" Female Fitting (to output to camlock/whatever)
3/4" NPT Male Plug (to dirll/bore out and solder to allow 0.5" SS tubing to pass through)
1/2" NPT Male to 1/2" compression OR 1/2" NPT Male to solder-able fitting for SS

Just found this site, has anyone used it before?
http://www.zorotools.com

resurrecting an old thread - did you ever build this, and if so, how did it work? Are you able to cool to water-in temps at maximum wort flow-rate through the SS coil? Any idea what the max flow-rate is (how long does it take you to run a 5 gallon or a 10 gallon batch through the coil)??

I'm thinking of doing the same thing but I'm worried that with 1/2" coil in 3/4" hose there may not be enough water flowing around the SS to make full use of the cooling capacity of the coil, so I'm thinking of using 1" hose instead.

I've made a 25' copper+garden hose CFC before and managed to get the hose wound around the coil without too much difficulty (and no Vaseline :) - how easy/hard was it for you to get you 3/4" hose wound around your 1/2" coil and do you think it would be easier or harder with 1" hose?

thanks,

-fafrd
 
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i never updated because i never finished the product. I could never decide between a 3/4" or 1" rubber hose and it is hard to find a food grade 1" hose. I might just go the 50ft 3/4" garden hose route and see what happens.

I hope to get back into brewing soon, so I will update if I end up finishing this project.
 
i never updated because i never finished the product. I could never decide between a 3/4" or 1" rubber hose and it is hard to find a food grade 1" hose. I might just go the 50ft 3/4" garden hose route and see what happens.

I hope to get back into brewing soon, so I will update if I end up finishing this project.

If I were building one of these, I would probably go 1" PEX. It is rated for potable water up to 200 degrees F (and can withstand more as long as the pressure is not too high) and others have told me that getting SS tubing into PEX is relatively straightforward.

Biggest drawback seems to be than it will not compact to coils smaller than 20" diameter or so...


Still, if you can afford the size, seems like a 0.5" OD SS + 1.0" ID PEX CFC would be the best SS-tubing based CFC design.

I'm considering going a different direction and using a 0.5mm filter + plate chiller design, but I am still mulling my options...

I found several options for 1" hot water hose aside from PEX, but PEX seemed to be the best price/performance alternative. If you get around to building one, I would love to know how it went...

-fafrd
 
interesting. I have never worked with PEX. what type of connection fittings would I need to step down the 1" PEX line to allow the 1/2" SS line through?


If I were building one of these, I would probably go 1" PEX. It is rated for potable water up to 200 degrees F (and can withstand more as long as the pressure is not too high) and others have told me that getting SS tubing into PEX is relatively straightforward.

Biggest drawback seems to be than it will not compact to coils smaller than 20" diameter or so...


Still, if you can afford the size, seems like a 0.5" OD SS + 1.0" ID PEX CFC would be the best SS-tubing based CFC design.

I'm considering going a different direction and using a 0.5mm filter + plate chiller design, but I am still mulling my options...

I found several options for 1" hot water hose aside from PEX, but PEX seemed to be the best price/performance alternative. If you get around to building one, I would love to know how it went...

-fafrd
 
interesting. I have never worked with PEX. what type of connection fittings would I need to step down the 1" PEX line to allow the 1/2" SS line through?

supposedly very easy - most of the PEX fittings are already stainless and someone said in a thread that they had the perfect fitting to provide a T and step down to 1/2"OD compression. Home Despot has a pretty wide range of PEX fittings, so that is one easy way to get a quick idea of what is available. They only had 3/4" tube at mine though, so you may need to pick up the 1" PEX tubing online...

-fafrd
 
You maybe be over engineering the apparatus using PEX.

The outer wall of the CFC doesn't need to be food grade or potable. The cold side liquid should never and if done correctly would never come in contact with the wort. If it were to, the batch would be ruined. You could use sewage as a cold side liquid source again, if your apparatus is made correctly.

As for the heat tolerance, 200 degrees is overkill as well. The cold side liquid would create a layer between the hot side tube and the outer hose. I have seen first hand nylon tubing rated for 150 degrees used in a CFC that, with the cold side liquid (garden hose water on a hot day in CA), had water gravity drained into it directly from a violent boil...and it worked perfectly.

Nylon tubing or even a rubber garden hose is more than adequate for this application. And will be significantly cheaper and open you up for myriad configuration/ fitting options.
 
yeah, i understand not needing the food grade for the cooling pass on a CFC. I was wanting to go with food grade if possible so that I could use the heated discharge water to do something, maybe make a second batch - idk.
 
Interesting idea. The cold side water does come out warm, not hot, but warm so it could shave a few minutes on the next batch. Not sure if the extra cost would achieve value, though.

I really have no idea how much water comes out of the cold side. When I have witnessed a CFC in action I was only paying attention to the hot side. It seemed to be enough to at least create a head start on heating strike water for the next batch.

Really there is only one way to find out. These are generally cheap enough to experiment on... If it doesn't work out, you would still have a useful CFC. And we aren't talking about significant dollars here.
 
You maybe be over engineering the apparatus using PEX.

The outer wall of the CFC doesn't need to be food grade or potable. The cold side liquid should never and if done correctly would never come in contact with the wort. If it were to, the batch would be ruined. You could use sewage as a cold side liquid source again, if your apparatus is made correctly.

I was considering to use the CFC as my HEX coil (external to the HLT), so the 'cold water' effluent (hot water in the case of HERMS) would be the sparge liquor and would therefore need to be potable...

As for the heat tolerance, 200 degrees is overkill as well. The cold side liquid would create a layer between the hot side tube and the outer hose. I have seen first hand nylon tubing rated for 150 degrees used in a CFC that, with the cold side liquid (garden hose water on a hot day in CA), had water gravity drained into it directly from a violent boil...and it worked perfectly.

Nylon tubing or even a rubber garden hose is more than adequate for this application. And will be significantly cheaper and open you up for myriad configuration/ fitting options.

The issue is not that these hoses will not 'work perfectly' - all of these ratings are based on a pressure specification and meant to guarantee that the hose will hold that amount of pressure at that temperature. Since we are typically brewing a much lower pressure than all of these hoses/tubings are rated for, I am not too concerned about hose failure (even for a standard garden hose having boiling water pumped through it).

The greater concern I have is with chemical leaching and safety. Al of these hoses and tubes are based on plastics and rubbers and they are also tested for chemical safety, but only at the rated specifications. So if the PEX or hosing or whatever is only exposed to temperatures of 200F or below, I would have no concerns with safety. Exposing them to temperatures above 200F and then pumping water though them that you intend to use in beer making is another story.

Of course, if the cooling water is not going to be consumed (as is usually the case with a CFC used for wort chilling application), then this chemical safety concern is a non-issue...

I've kind of come to the conclusion that for the idea of using an external heat exchanger for both mash recirculation and wort chilling, an all-metal design is probably the more prudent way to go. Plate chillers are very attractive for this but have the serious concern about getting clogged with mash particulate. It seems like a few brewers have had success using an in-line filter to keep stray mash particles out of the plate chiller and I am now considering that configuration...

-fafrd
 
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