Chocolate Stout Noob Question

I'm thinking about brewing the following recipe I found for a 5 gallon double chocolate stout:

6lb Light Malt Extract (I'm assuming liquid is better???)
1lb Crystal 90L
.5lb Black Patent
.5lb Chocolate Malt
.25lb Roasted Barley

Steep grains for 30 minutes at 155 degrees.

Add malt extract (off the boil). Bring to a boil and add .5oz Kent Golding hops and 2 tbsp. of baker's chocolate (I read this helps to release the oils and keep head retention) for one hour.

Pitch White Labs London Ale yeast.

7-10 days in primary (or whenever hydrometer readings are the same for 3 days straight). Transfer to secondary carboy for 2 weeks. Bottle for 3.

Qbrew gives me the following readings:
OG 1.049
FG 1.012
Bitterness 11
Recipe Color 35

So here are my noob questions. First off, how does this recipe look in general? What I'm really looking for is a great stout with a bit more then mild chocolate flavor. I am also interested in head retention. I have no idea what factors contribute to head retention. Ideally, I would like a nice white head that holds for as long as possible.

Thanks in advance.

I'll leave the more advanced advice to someone else (I'm not good at formulating recipes yet). The one thing I would say is that you might want to substitute dry extract instead of the liquid depending on how often your LHBS rotates stock. Depending on age/storage conditions the LME might give you what is known as the extract twang.

As far as chocolate flavor, the chocolate malt should help. There are some recipes out there that call for the addition of actual chocolate to enhance the flavor. You might want to look into that. One of the commercial versions I tried (Bison Brewing) with real chocolate actually had less chocolate flavor than one using chocolate malt. (Descheutes Brewing Co). The Rogue chocolate stout was pretty good though.

As for head retention there are some specialty malts that help out with that. Check out the following link
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/101/malts
http://www.foamrangers.com/malts.html

Rogue reportedly adds chocolate extract to their chocolate stout at bottling. If you want a lot of chocolate flavor, I would use the extract.

Also, I would cut back or leave out the black patent entirely. In my opinion, the acrid flavor of the black patent will clash with the chocolate flavor.

The grains are similar to what I used on our first choc stout. I used 1/4 lb of both the black patent and roasted barley. I also used dark malt and crystal 50-60 instead of light malt and crystal 90 but still it's pretty close. I didn't use any choc malt because I didn't have any.

Two tablespoons of the cocoa is not much. Most recipes call for 4 ounces of cocoa but I used 8 ounces. We only had one taster out of 50 that picked up the cocoa right away, however, I also had brown sugar, molasses, and lactose in my recipe so it made a tasty but complex blend of flavors. The chocolate doesn't hit you right away. One thing I should note about using cocoa is that it takes a while for the cocoa to settle out and you get quite a pile of trub on the bottom.

I tend to go easy on hops but your hops seem a little low to me. Kent is not a particularly strong hop. Of course, that is a personal preference but you asked for our 2 cents.
Sorry, didn't mean to go on and on about my recipe but the chocolate stouts are close to my heart. Have fun with yours!

I would drop the black patent from the recipe. With the chocolate malt and the roasted barley color is not going to be an issue...not to mention that depending on the variety used, its flavor could bring the chocolate flavor down.

I would agree that your IBUs are rather low too.

brewt00l is right...no need for the patent. I've found out the hard way that it's WAY too easy to overdo your roasted dark malts in a stout/porter. And patent isn't required for stout---roasted barley and chocolate are all you really need.

I've got a recipe for Young's Double Chocolate Stout in my BYO 150 Clones Issue at home...and I do believe they add cocoa powder towards the end of the boil. Personally, I've made a chocolate-coffee stout in the past and went off the deep end by adding 8oz of unsweetened baking chocolate 20 mins before the end of the boil. And it ended up rocking faces. So you could do that too---just expect the oils from the chocolate to make the beer silkier and more viscous---not bad things in a stout!

Desertbronze: if I'm not mistaken, Rogue doesn't use extract, they use real Belgian chocolate.

I brewed a chocolate stout with London ale yeast (wlp013) on Sunday and it took until last night to start.

Jus' sayin' Had to complain to somone.

Thanks for all the feedback. So basically, dropping the black patent, upping the Kent Golding hops to say 1oz, and adding 8oz of unsweetened baking chocolate 20 mins before the end is the new and improved recipe.

Also, I was curious as to the yeast. Should I go with the London ale or Irish ale?

Evan! said:

Desertbronze: if I'm not mistaken, Rogue doesn't use extract, they use real Belgian chocolate.

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From the Rogue website

Chocolate Stout

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[Back to Top]

The recipe for Rogue Chocolate Stout was created several years ago for export to Japan. The exported twelve ounce Chocolate Bear Beer bottle label is in Kanji and features a teddy bear with a pink heart on his belly. Chocolate Stout was released for Valentine's Day in 2001 in a twenty-two ounce bottle for the US market. The label features a Roguester (Sebbie Buhler) on the label. The bottled of Chocolate Stout is available on a very limited basis in the US, so get it while you can!

Hedonistic! Ebony in color with a rich creamy head. The mellow flavor of oats, chocolate malts, and real chocolate are balanced perfectly with the right amount of hops for a bittersweet finish. Chocolate Stout is brewed with 10 ingredients: Northwest Harrington and Klages, Crystal 135-165 and Beeston Chocolate Malts, Cascade Hops, Rolled Oats and Roasted Barley, Natural Chocolate Flavor, Free Range Coastal Waters and PacMan Yeast. Chocolate Stout is available year-round only in the classic 22-ounce bottle and on draft.

Measurements: 15 degrees Plato, IBU 69, Apparent Attenuation 77, Lovibond 135 degrees.
No Chemicals, Additives, or Preservatives

Natural Chocolate Flavor - whatever that means. Zymurgy published some Rogue clone recipes a few years back. That recipe calls for chocolate extract. I'll see if I can find it at home tonight.

That being said - I've tried cocoa powder and baking chocolate. Both gave an acceptable chocolate flavor, but the flavor was not as intense as in the Rogue Chocolate Stout. I need to make another one and try the extract.

BNVince said:

Thanks for all the feedback. So basically, dropping the black patent, upping the Kent Golding hops to say 1oz, and adding 8oz of unsweetened baking chocolate 20 mins before the end is the new and improved recipe.

Also, I was curious as to the yeast. Should I go with the London ale or Irish ale?

Click to expand...

Depending on the exact % of the hops in question and if your vol/late extract, that's prb still going to be a wee bit on the low side from my pov.

brewt00l said:

Depending on the exact % of the hops in question and if your vol/late extract, that's prb still going to be a wee bit on the low side from my pov.

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Low in terms of what?

Young's uses chocolate nibs in their Double Chocolate Stout. FermentEd used them in his chocolate stout I watched him brew last weekend. I'm seriously thinking of adding them to my next batch. He got his from Scharffen Berger.

Scharffen Berger is right across the street from where i work. i've gone there for coffee a treats a few times...they have some really good fresh stuff. i want to take my mom on the tour next time she comes to visit.

Do you think it would be beter to dry hop those nibs, or steep them at 150 or so?

Good question. IIRC, FermentEd put them in the last few mins. of the boil. Hoping he chimes in here to correct me or clarify.

Rhoobarb said:

Good question. IIRC, FermentEd put them in the last few mins. of the boil. Hoping he chimes in here to correct me or clarify.

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It seems like using them like finishing hops would help the flavor the most...as long as they're 'safe' for boiling.

BNVince said:

Low in terms of what?

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IBUs...an expression of hop bitterness

Hmmm...well their seems to be a lot of different thoughts on this matter. Maybe I should just use a nice stout recipe and then experiment on adding different chocolate types at different times.

Rhoobarb said:

Good question. IIRC, FermentEd put them in the last few mins. of the boil. Hoping he chimes in here to correct me or clarify.

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Sorry I didn't see this until today. I add 8 oz. of nibs in the secondary for 2 weeks. You can also find nibs at http://www.thespicehouse.com/spices/roasted-cacao-nibs
Cheers!

FermentEd said:

Sorry I didn't see this until today. I add 8 oz. of nibs in the secondary for 2 weeks. You can also find nibs at http://www.thespicehouse.com/spices/roasted-cacao-nibs
Cheers!

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Could I ask what your stout recipe looks like for this? OG, FG, IBU'S? Just curious.

BNVince said:

Hmmm...well their seems to be a lot of different thoughts on this matter. Maybe I should just use a nice stout recipe and then experiment on adding different chocolate types at different times.

Click to expand...

Definately a good idea. What I would do is find a chocolate stout recipe that only uses chocolate malt for the flaver. Try this one first and see what you like about it. You might be suprised at the amount of flavor you get from the malt. If you have a couple of smaller containers you can use as a secondary, you could split the batch and do half with malt, and half with added chocolate.

Here is the link to my Irish Stout recipe, so far it is my best beer.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=26912

Other than using a fairly large amount of steeping grains it is a very easy recipe. Has perfect stout aroma and body with a wonderful smoky flavor.

As for adding chocolate, I tried this once, added Ghiradelli cocoa powder for the last minute of the boil, and made quite a mess, but the beer still turned out very nicely.

(Just an FYI, someone may have mentioned this already, but, chocolate malt does not contribute a chocolate flavor).

BNVince said:

Could I ask what your stout recipe looks like for this? OG, FG, IBU'S? Just curious.

Click to expand...

Here it is. BTW, the chocolate flavor in this recipe is very evident. If you're looking for a "hint" of chocolate flavor you should scale back the nibs or use another method to attain what you're looking for. However, I've gotten alot of positive responses from this recipe. Cheers!

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Chocolate Coffee Stout (Chocolate Jitterz)
Brewer: Ed
Asst Brewer:
Style: Sweet Stout
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 7.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.080 SG
Estimated Color: 36.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 25.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
11.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 71.5 %
1.00 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 6.5 %
1.00 lb Munich Malt (Dark) (20.0 SRM) Grain 6.5 %
0.75 lb Caraaroma (130.0 SRM) Grain 4.9 %
0.44 lb Carafa III (525.0 SRM) Grain 2.9 %
0.44 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 2.9 %
1.02 oz Tettnang [4.30%] (60 min) Hops 14.1 IBU
1.02 oz Tettnang [4.30%] (30 min) Hops 10.9 IBU
0.25 oz Liberty [3.60%] (5 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep)Hops -
1.00 items Immersion Chiller (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1.00 items Servomyces Capsule (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1.00 items Vanilla Bean (Secondary 2.0 weeks) Misc
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
8.00 oz Chocolate Nibs (Secondary 2.0 weeks) Misc
20.00 oz Cold Brewed Coffee (Bottling 1.0 hours) Misc
0.75 lb Milk Sugar (Lactose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 4.9 %
9.00 gal Chicago, IL Water
1 Pkgs German Ale/Kolsch (White Labs #WLP029) [StYeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Full Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 14.63 lb
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Mash In Add 18.29 qt of water at 167.7 F 152.0 F 60 min


Notes:
------
1. Add 1 vanilla bean to secondary at transfer and age for two weeks.
2. Add 8 oz. Chocolate Nibs to secondary fermenter at transfer and age for two weeks.
3. Add 24 oz. of Cold Brewed Coffee at kegging. Use course ground coffee steeped in 24 oz. of filtered room temperature water overnight. Use twice as much coffee grounds as you would for regular brewed. Strain through paper filter before adding to keg.

TheJadedDog said:

Here is the link to my Irish Stout recipe, so far it is my best beer.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=26912

Other than using a fairly large amount of steeping grains it is a very easy recipe. Has perfect stout aroma and body with a wonderful smoky flavor.

As for adding chocolate, I tried this once, added Ghiradelli cocoa powder for the last minute of the boil, and made quite a mess, but the beer still turned out very nicely.

(Just an FYI, someone may have mentioned this already, but, chocolate malt does not contribute a chocolate flavor).

Click to expand...

Thanks for the recipe. I may try your recipe and add 8oz of the cacao nubs during secondary fermentation as suggested. I will let you know how it works out.

Out of curiosity, what kind of head does your recipe produce?

BNVince said:

Out of curiosity, what kind of head does your recipe produce?

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Without the chocolate it produces a classic stout head when dispensed from either bottle or keg. The chocolate addition hurts head retention some, but the initial pour is still spot on.

TheJadedDog said:

Without the chocolate it produces a classic stout head when dispensed from either bottle or keg. The chocolate addition hurts head retention some, but the initial pour is still spot on.

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Nice. Been to the Wickendan Pub lately?