Vienna/cascade SMaSH

I'm still relatively new to homebrewing (this will be batch 5) and I recently discovered this awesome smash idea. I couldn't find any solid recipe on here, so estimating from other recipes I plan to use:
10-15lbs Vienna malt
3-4oz Cascade pellets

How's this rough recipe sound? I plan on using the continuous hopping technique from Yoopers dfh 60 min clone.

It all depends on how strong/bitter you want your SMaSH to be. Assuming 70% efficiency 10 lbs would put you at pale ale strength while 15 lbs would put you up close to low double IPA strength. 3-4 oz is about right for the low end of that range, I’d use more like 5-6 if you aim for the high end.

I’m not a big fan of continuous hopping since it wastes (in my view) a lot of hops in the middle of the boil. For hoppy beers I tend to skip mid-boil addition and go with just an early bittering addition followed by a big dose at the end of the boil (then dry hop).

Sounds like a good combination, hope it turns out well. Welcome to the board.

Thanks! This is also going to be my first all grain brew. I've read up plenty on the correct process, but I'm still in the dark on how efficiency is calculated

Ps, this board is awesome!!!

Efficiency is just the percent of the sugars that you extract compared to the "ideal" mash. Some people talk about mash efficiency which is pre-boil, others talk about system efficiency which is measured based on what you get into the fermenter (including losses to hops, and transfers).

Vienna give about .037 per pound per gallon ideally. To do math with specific gravity you need to drop to 1 (part of the reason many brewers work in plato). If you have 10 lbs the maximum gravity contribution you could get in one gallon is .037*10 = .37. Divide this by the total volume you are making, say 5 gallons, to get the maximum original gravity .074. Let’s say you brew and get a measured gravity of 1.050, divide that by the maximum to get the efficiency .050/.074 = 68%. Learning to predict your efficiency for a given beer is important because it lets you know how much grain to use to hit your target gravity

Brewing software like Beersmith or Promash can do this for you, but understanding the concept is still valuable.

Ok. So. . .

12lbs Vienna
2oz cascade 60 min
.5 oz cascade 30 min
2.5 oz cascade 10 min
2 oz cascade dry hop 7 days

Is that enough hops for the dry addition to make a nice hoppy impact?

Looks good to me (although I'd move the 30 min addition to 60 and hte 10 min additions to 0).

Hope it turns out well.

Vienna/Cascade makes an excellent SMaSH...do it.

I can't remember what the technique is called, but I read about taking the first rubbings off the mash and boiling them down to caramelization then adding it back to the wort. How much of the rubbings should I do this with? Is it worth the extra effort?

502Brew said:

... taking the first rubbings off the mash ....

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And by rubbings I mean runnings

I'm not sure it has a name. I'd skip it on this one, it is good technique for malt forward beers (recently did it on a Scottish stout) but I don't think the extra caramelized flavor is a good fit in a hoppy beer.

Good to know. I've still got to put together a mashtun and get ingredients, but I'll let you know how it goes

I've done a vienna/cascade smash and it was amazing, such a simple but great beer. You should try dry hopping it a little too with the cascades; maybe a half oz or an oz.

As of right now I plan on
13lbs Vienna
4oz cascade 60 min
2oz

2oz dry hop
(accidentally hit send on the first one)

Putting my mashtun together today. I'm using a braided tube manifold. Is there a trick to getting the rubber tube out of the braiding, or do I just have to work it out?

Got the build done. I think my manifold is nylon instead of steel like I had intended. Will this cause any problems with the beer?

The nylon could (and probably will) collapse under the weight of the grains causing a stuck sparge and/or other similar issues. Redo it with the stainless or build a cpvc or copper manifold. I also hope that the tee you used is stainless steel...

It's galvanized steel. Will that sill work?

No... Galvanized is bad. Don't use any of it where it will come into contact with your beer. I can't tell by the picture but if that is a piece of galvanized pipe coming out of the cooler you should replace that too. With the acidity of the wort it will rust and as far as I know it can be toxic. If you can't get stainless then you can use brass. There are always debates about brass too but if you read the metalurgy section of howtobrew.com it shows how to pickle the brass. You can also search galvanized in the forums and see pretty much the same answer in a few other threads...

502Brew said:

I can't remember what the technique is called, but I read about taking the first rubbings off the mash and boiling them down to caramelization then adding it back to the wort. How much of the rubbings should I do this with? Is it worth the extra effort?

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Are you talking about doing a decoction? I recently did one and I'm for it, but you should know more or less what it will do. It'll darken the beer (carmelization), which you know, and it will also create greater complexity in your malt flavor. Personally I feel this is more suited to a basic 2row mash, since Vienna has a good deal of complexity anyway.

But also it just might boost your efficiency, which is important to consider if you generally hit lower than seventy.

That being said, I think this will make a good SMASH with or without a decoction. And if you've never done one, they can be deceitfully complex in flavor, and can teach you a lot about the grains and hops your using.

But mos def, get rid of that galvanized steel stuff.

Good luck!

Ok. Finally ready to brew. Got a pound of cascade from hopsdirect today. Finished my manifold with brass and stainless steel tubing. Got my Vienna malt. Plan on mashing at 150 for an hour and sparging at 170. Anything else I could possibly be missing? I have a really good feeling about this brew and don't wan to screw it up with a simple mistake

Sounds good. Keep it simple, that's the idea of a smash anyway, and I don't think you need to mess around with a protein rest. Should go swimmingly.

Awesome. Should brew tonight assuming I get this term paper done reasonably soon. I'll keep everyone posted

502Brew said:

Awesome. Should brew tonight assuming I get this term paper done reasonably soon. I'll keep everyone posted

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If this is your first all-grain and you're doing this by yourself, consider the following:

My regular brew buddy and I have, after six years, only been able to whittle a two-man brew down to about five and a half hours. You better finish that paper fast. Or reprioritze and try to get an extension on the paper.

rewster452 said:

You better finish that paper fast. Or reprioritze and try to get an extension on the paper.

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It's already 3/4 the way done, mostly needs some finishing touches. And it's not due till Monday. But thanks for the heads up on the timeframe

New plan: brewing Tuesday when I have plenty of time, and after I get brewing supplies with my buddy who's going to start brewing.

Finally got around to brewing. Everything went great! OG of 1.059 and a hair shy of a four gallon yield, but the beer should be marvelous. Going to rack onto a couple more ounces of cascade as soon as fermentation is almost done.

w00t!!

So I dry hopped an ounce of cascade in the primary, transferred to secondary on top of another ounce of cascade. The sample I took tastes AMAZING. Is there any way to over dry hop?
Also, the beer is very cloudy. Is there an easy way to clear it up? I plan on usin Irish moss nex time, but it's way too late for that now.

If you over dry hop you'll get an asston of aroma, which could be off-putting. If your ABV is over six percent, aging will make it beautiful again. Obviously don't age it on the hops.

Yeah. ABV is right around 6.5%. So age in a tertiary fermenter or in the bottles?

I'm not sure there's a wrong answer to that. Whatever is easier for you. And if you cold age it a week or so the cloudiness should fade.

Bottle it and age it there if need be. There's no need to rack over and over and introduce oxygen.

Oldsock said:

It all depends on how strong/bitter you want your SMaSH to be. Assuming 70% efficiency 10 lbs would put you at pale ale strength while 15 lbs would put you up close to low double IPA strength. 3-4 oz is about right for the low end of that range, I’d use more like 5-6 if you aim for the high end.

I’m not a big fan of continuous hopping since it wastes (in my view) a lot of hops in the middle of the boil. For hoppy beers I tend to skip mid-boil addition and go with just an early bittering addition followed by a big dose at the end of the boil (then dry hop).

Sounds like a good combination, hope it turns out well. Welcome to the board.

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Hey there, I had a quick question for you. Considering your stance on doing early bittering additions and then big doses right at the end - do you find that your hop aroma/flavor fades quickly or does it stick around for a while?

I like your mindset and I want to try it with the next pale ale I do (skipping the midboil additions), but I did read some stuff on here the other day where a fellow brewer was saying that the 15,10,5 minute additions were more stable & when they had tried to just do bittering early and a big dose at the end, it was great when first tapped but some of the flavor & aroma changed and faded quickly. Have you had any similar experiences? P.S. love your blog.

Just bottled this batch. Yielded 25 bottles and my 2L growler. Ended up dry hopping an ounce in the primary for five days and another ounce in the secondary for another five days. So far this beer tastes AMAZING! I'm pumped for it to carbonate!
Ps, my birthday was sunday and my girlfriend got me a refractometer!!! Infinitely better than my hydrometer

502Brew said:

Just bottled this batch. Yielded 25 bottles and my 2L growler. Ended up dry hopping an ounce in the primary for five days and another ounce in the secondary for another five days. So far this beer tastes AMAZING! I'm pumped for it to carbonate!
Ps, my birthday was sunday and my girlfriend got me a refractometer!!! Infinitely better than my hydrometer

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you will still need the hydrometer for readings after fermentation has begun. you can correct for alcohol using the refractometer but i'm not sure how accurate the readings will be.

Aah, very good to know. I definitely need to read up on them more

502Brew said:

Just bottled this batch. Yielded 25 bottles and my 2L growler. Ended up dry hopping an ounce in the primary for five days and another ounce in the secondary for another five days. So far this beer tastes AMAZING! I'm pumped for it to carbonate!
Ps, my birthday was sunday and my girlfriend got me a refractometer!!! Infinitely better than my hydrometer

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Sounds like you have a good girlfriend!

This beer turned out amazing. Not overly aromatic, bitter, or alcoholic. Easily my best beer to date. Next up, belgian tripel