Monster Mill 2 Crush?

Hey guys, Just used my MM-2 mill for the 1 st time. I left it set @ .045, as came and suggested by the MFG.

Tried to take as "REAL" pics as I could. I read that the gap can be as tight as .036-7 . Im thinking my crush has a lot of powder? Oh maybe it's just right?

What do you Experts think?



I have in here:
7 Lbs Pale Ale 2 row
3/4 Lb Cara/Pils
1/2 Lb C-20
1/2 Lb Vienna

I was told by LHBS The Cara/Pils is a very HARD grain, Mix it with other grain to crush.?

That looks like a fairly decent crush. Definitely not too fine. The crush I use is a little more fine than that and I've not had any kind of issues. Brewing with it will be the true test so you can see what level of efficiency you're getting and then can decide if you need to go tighter or if you're happy with where it's at now. Some people like to chase a really high efficiency number, however I'm happy sitting right around 70%. I think that's more personal preference than anything.

As for the Carapils that stuff is pretty hard. Take a kernel of pale and chew it, then the carapils and you'll see it's almost like chewing on a rock. I mill all my grains together at the same time and there haven't been any issues. Never tried to mill the Carapils separately so I couldn't say how the rollers would handle it.

My crush is set to 0.35. From the pics you could definitely go tighter. The manufacturer recommends that wide gap for the sake of having customers avoid stuck sparges and complain. It will take a bit of messing around but everyone's system is different. I would tighten it up a bit at a time and if you get a stuck sparge then dial back.

I've had my MM2 for awhile now and started off with a setting at 0.035 and then went to 0.032 and now I'm at 0.030. I've been at 0.030 for the last couple - I haven't had any stuck sparges but a few have definitely been slow. But my efficiencies have been great!

My crush looks pretty close to that and I have the MM2 also.



Mine is at the setting from the factory or pretty darn close.
No stuck sparges and I am hitting my Brewsmith numbers dead on with 75% efficiency.

Looks good to me.

I feel that crush should be set as tight as possible without compromising husk integrity. Your husks look good.

Your lautering system will also influence how fine you can go.

Ok Thanks for your opinions. I'm throwing it into the mash tun as we speak!

Time will tell.... BTW, I'm doing Beirmuncher's Centennial Blonde!!!

We we see how it goes! And I'm using Beersmith 2

Another vote for 0.032. Like you, I started out with my MM2 around .045 but found my efficiency was about 60%. Made my crush a little finer and today I hit my targets bang on. I was aiming for around 72%

Ok I did 1 brew @ the .045.

I changed to.035. We'll see how next batch goes?

Sorry, to rehash an old thread. I just used my MM2 for the first time at the factory standard 0.045", and I got 60% efficiency. Really, irritated me because I undershot my target SG by 7 points. Either way, I tried setting the MM2 to 0.035", but I had a hard time getting my cordless drill to crush the grain. I'm guessing I'm going to have to go out and buy a corded drill. Are you guys using gaps less than 0.040" using a corded drill/motor to spin the mills?

Thanks in advance.

Read up on "conditioning grain" as this will soften the kernels a bit and at the same time toughen the husks so they don't get ripped apart.

jammin said:

I feel that crush should be set as tight as possible without compromising husk integrity.

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My approach is kind of the opposite of this. I go as wide as possible without leaving any whole grain kernels behind. That's .038-.040 on my mill. Expose the starches, stir really well and the enzymes will find them. Flour is for making bread, not beer. I don't chase efficiency numbers, I look for consistency.

AnOldUR said:

My approach is kind of the opposite of this. I go as wide as possible without leaving any whole grain kernels behind. That's .038-.040 on my mill. Expose the starches, stir really well and the enzymes will find them. Flour is for making bread, not beer. I don't chase efficiency numbers, I look for consistency.

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But why look for consistency at 60% when others find it at 75 to 80%? Tighten the mill until your efficiency is what you want or you start having lauter or sparge problems.

RM-MN said:

But why look for consistency at 60% when others find it at 75 to 80%? Tighten the mill until your efficiency is what you want or you start having lauter or sparge problems.

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If you expose the endosperm and stir, you won't be getting 60% efficiency. For beers in the 1.060 range, I hit pretty close to 75% every time. My crush looks pretty close to what the OP showed in his first post. Chunky starch, little to no flour.


edit:
Not saying there's anything wrong with a floury crush. BIAB guys go really fine and have no problems. It's just not for me.

My gap is around .38 and the crush doesn't get too floury and I get a decent repeatably efficiency I am happy with. I do have to use a corded drill. I had the same issue with the cordless one I had been using not being able to get the rollers going. Sometimes it would work for a bit then stop again. But there are some cheap cordless drills out there that do the job just fine.

Thanks gduck, what efficiency are you getting at 0.038"? I'd lime to hit between 70-75%. Obviously, I just want to be consistent, but more consistent than 60%.

I have a JSP maltmill set at 0.045" and my crush looks fairly similar to yours (mine is possibly a bit finer). I consistently get 85% mash/lauter efficiency with that setting.

-a.

novahokie09 said:

Thanks gduck, what efficiency are you getting at 0.038"? I'd lime to hit between 70-75%. Obviously, I just want to be consistent, but more consistent than 60%.

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Pretty much any beer I do under 1.065 I'm at right around 75% effeciency.

novahokie09 said:

Sorry, to rehash an old thread. I just used my MM2 for the first time at the factory standard 0.045", and I got 60% efficiency. Really, irritated me because I undershot my target SG by 7 points. Either way, I tried setting the MM2 to 0.035", but I had a hard time getting my cordless drill to crush the grain. I'm guessing I'm going to have to go out and buy a corded drill. Are you guys using gaps less than 0.040" using a corded drill/motor to spin the mills?

Thanks in advance.

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I'm still using a .035 gap, And I do use a corded 1/2" low speed drill. I just got a 1/2" cordless drill and can't wait to give it a spin.

I tried 0.045" on my MM2-2 and was not happy with the efficiency. The malt was conditioned prior to milling. The crush looked good. The flow rate through my RIMS was very high and that was telling. A normal crush with my RIMS does not flow that well. The efficiency was in the mid 70's.

My last brew used a 0.035" setting and the malt was again conditioned prior to the crush. The crush was very fine and I feared a stuck mash. But the husks were nearly intact. Clearly, the conditioning was very helpful. The flow rate through my RIMS was OK. It was almost wheat-like in its low flow rate, but was adequate. The efficiency was back into the mid 80's. So I'd say that in my case, bumping the gap to around 0.038" might be ideal.

I have an MM2 and my gap is set to 0.043. For OGs between 1.06-1.07, I get around 75% efficiencies, <1.060 I get 75-80%, 1.080+ I get around 70%. When using my cordless drill, it took me almost an hour to crush the grain because I had to keep charging the battery and switching to the spare battery. I now use a corded drill and it takes less than 10 min.

Just to clarify cause I feel like some people are calculating efficiency incorrectly. Are most of us talking Mash efficiency? Or overall efficiency(into fermenter) ? Because 70% into the fermenter is average. 70% mash efficiency sucks

I use my MM2 at the default 45 setting and double mill. I'm not sure how much the double milling affects the efficiency but I get around 80%. Seems like many people have their mill gap set much lower. May need to try 40 and see if I can get around 85% efficiency.

drkwoods said:

Just to clarify cause I feel like some people are calculating efficiency incorrectly. Are most of us talking Mash efficiency? Or overall efficiency(into fermenter) ? Because 70% into the fermenter is average. 70% mash efficiency sucks

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There are many that would argue that 70-80% and consistent mash efficiencys are ideal for making the best quality beer. I run between 75 and 80% and am really happy with the results.

Also I get about the same mash efficiency with my MM2 at 1.042 or 1.035.

Gartywood said:

There are many that would argue that 70-80% and consistent mash efficiencys are ideal for making the best quality beer. I run between 75 and 80% and am really happy with the results.

Also I get about the same mash efficiency with my MM2 at 1.042 or 1.035.

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ok just to make sure we are talking the same thing, because I just spoke with a guy at the LHBS who claims 95% efficiency.. I told him you mean Mash eff and he says No total efficiency.. Mash Efficiency is how much sugar the MASH itself produces relative to hypothetical maximum yields . To Check Mash efficiency get the Gravity of mash befor sparge (With 37 pts per pound of 2 row being the average lintner)
It's the gravity points obtained divided by the 100% possible gravity points
So 10# 2-row in 4 gal mash water = 37pts x lbs / gal. 370/4=92.5 max yield efficiency in points (convert to gravity 1.092)
So at 100% efficiency I'd get a gravity reading after mash of 1.0925
If I got 1.083 reading (at the end of MASH before Sparge). I would divide that by 1.092 and get 90% mash efficiency ( 83/92= .90 X100 = 90% ) Thats a decent Mash efficiency. Total efficiency is the gravity points you still have when the wort reaches the fermenter.. Many people mix that up.. thats why its good to clarify which efficiency your talking about. In my system I consistently get 80% Mash effc, but cant seem to get better then 70% into the fermentor.. So in this scenario above i would expect a OG in the fermenter of 1.062 Is it my crush?

Efficiency into the fermenter is not as helpful as kettle efficiency IMHO. At least when speaking of recipes.

I think mash efficiency is a good indicator of your crush though.

drkwoods said:

ok just to make sure we are talking the same thing, because I just spoke with a guy at the LHBS who claims 95% efficiency.. I told him you mean Mash eff and he says No total efficiency.. Mash Efficiency is how much sugar the MASH itself produces relative to hypothetical maximum yields . To Check Mash efficiency get the Gravity of mash befor sparge (With 37 pts per pound of 2 row being the average lintner)
It's the gravity points obtained divided by the 100% possible gravity points
So 10# 2-row in 4 gal mash water = 37pts x lbs / gal. 370/4=92.5 max yield efficiency in points (convert to gravity 1.092)
So at 100% efficiency I'd get a gravity reading after mash of 1.0925
If I got 1.083 reading (at the end of MASH before Sparge). I would divide that by 1.092 and get 90% mash efficiency ( 83/92= .90 X100 = 90% ) Thats a decent Mash efficiency. Total efficiency is the gravity points you still have when the wort reaches the fermenter.. Many people mix that up.. thats why its good to clarify which efficiency your talking about. In my system I consistently get 80% Mash effc, but cant seem to get better then 70% into the fermentor.. So in this scenario above i would expect a OG in the fermenter of 1.062 Is it my crush?

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I/beer alchemy calculate mash efficiency based on the amount of grain and the gravity points and volume after batch sparging Pre-boil gravity). For me this is the best measure of efficiency for recipe creation as I know how much I boil off and how much I leave in the kettle. So I aim for a 75% efficiency into the kettle, 6 gallons at the end of the boil, and 5.25 into the fermenter. Losing .75 gallons on 6 gallons it looks like my overall efficiency ranges about 66%. All in all I'm really happy with the quality of the beer and the consistency of my results.

I'm interested in checking actual mash efficiency now though and I will on my next brew.

I am by no means an expert but I do know to calculate mash efficiency you need to have an accurate way to measure weight and volumes. I love when someone says “I get 95% efficiency" and go on to say you don’t need to be so particular about measuring volumes or have no data on the specific grain they used. Mash efficiency will vary depending on mash temps, system types, crush, grain types etc. Another variable is the specific grains you use. Not all Two-Row has the same potential and to be accurate you would need the specific grain lab results to calculate and even then there is still a margin of error.

Brew house efficiency is determined by the total amount of beer that ends up in your kegs or bottles and is an indicator of your total brew house losses. In many cases hoppy beers will result in lesser brew house efficiency due to the wort lost in hop/trub in your fermenter/boil kettle. It also factors wort lost in plate chillers and associated plumbing.

I focus on consistency. Dial your crush in to the tightest you can without damaging the husk's or creating system issues. I use a false bottom, recirculation during mash and fly sparge. So my crush may be too fine for another system. You need to start at .045 and tighten until the husks get damaged or you get system issues like stuck mash.

Mash efficiency = % of potential extracted
Brew house efficiency = % of potential extracted that makes it to your glass after losses.

I highly recommend brewing the same beer a few times while dialing in your system and crush so you can make adjustments based on information obtained under controlled conditions. I brewed the same beer over 15 times until my system was dialed in and got to the point that I did not even need to take gravity readings until the wort hit the fermenter.

My calculations are a bit more scientific and may confuse a few of you but here goes anyway. I'll try to simplify.

x=drinky and y= likey and p = perfecto.

Therefore if I drinky AND likey, it's perfecto! (x+y) = p

I crush at .038 to achieve this, your results may differ.

I just use beer smith. My last brew day both were in the low 80 percent range.

Could be plus or minus up to a few points due to my laziness on measuring the precise amount of liquids.

Crush (for me). Depends if the husk is empty. Not to torn up and equal amount of flour and small bits of grain. 60 or 90 minute mash will get most sugars/starch out.

I use an old rectangular cooler with a CPVC manifold that is slotted on the bottom. I would get between 70-80% efficiency depending on who crushed my grains. Last summer I bought a Barley Crusher from another brewer and he had the gap set at .025". I've never had any trouble sparging on the 15 batches I've brewed since I bought the crusher and I have been averaging 85-90% efficiency.