Does my LHBS suck?

I have a LHBS about 15 minutes away from where I work. It's pretty convenient and lately I haven't really been planning ahead enough with my recipes to order, so I just stop by and pick up what I need. However every time I go there the guy seems let me down in one way or another. Let me give you some examples:

First time I stopped in I was pretty noobish. He was explaining the fermentation to me as such: Sit it in primary until bubbles only come every 4 seconds. Immediately rack to secondary. It will finish fermenting in secondary. Immediately after it stops bubbling bottle it.

Now I had a feeling that wasn't right after what I've read here. There isn't supposed to be any fermentation at all in secondary. And the beer needs time to age and clean up before you bottle/keg. So I sort of ignored his advice.

Second time I went in to buy more bottle caps, and such. I asked if he'd ever heard of a dip tube for the bottling bucket. I told him I was going to break a racking cane at the bent part and use a stopper to fabricate one. He looked at me like I was crazy and said "that just sounds like a lot of work". So I went ahead and bought the stuff anyway, and of course they charged me a $1 extra because I used a visa and spent less than 10 dollars.

Third time I was in I was asking him about dry yeast and starters. After I mentioned that I had been using Wyeast smack packs he just looked at me with a condescending grin and sort of laughed like I was the dumbest person on the planet. Since then I've used the white labs vial, and safale us-05 dry yeast and both were great. In fact I've never had a bad fermentation with any yeast, but Wyeast is super convenient so I'm not sure wtf his deal was.

The last time I went in I had emailed them an order for a sierra nevada stout clone I had scaled up to 6gal. I still haven't managed to get a digital scale so I asked them to please measure the ingredients exactly. They like to sell in 1 or 1/2 oz increments. I needed exactly 4.5 oz of hops, 1.1, 1, and 1.4. I asked him since they charge the same price for hops no matter what style, could he just bill me for 4.5oz but measure them exactly to the recipe. All of this was by email, so when I showed up and asked if my order was ready he said "oh you are the one with the crazy order." Mind you that their website says "special orders are what we do". I said I don't have a scale could you weight it exact for me, even if you have to bill me extra. Their scale only weighs in ounces, and is only accurate down to 1/8th oz. So 1.1 oz is out of the question. I can get 1.125 oz but not 1.1. I can get 2.375 or 2.5 oz, but not 2.4. Call me crazy but I don't think measuring by the tenth of an ounce is too much to ask, especially at 3 dollars an ounce.

White labs vials are 8.80 each, which I will never pay for again (did it once in a pinch). And their in store prices are higher than their online prices, presumably because they don't update their website very often.

Finally I do have to say they have a pretty large selection. Their prices on some things are reasonable although online is always cheaper. If I walk in with a grain bill they fill it within 10 minutes. I always choose no mill but they will mill for free. And they are always willing to give advice (albeit incorrect) anytime you ask. So they are nice enough, just seem old fashioned and not really up with what the new age home brewers are into. So does my LHBS suck? I'm thinking of buying 2-3 recipes of grain online from now on and buying a bulk order of hops to avoid having to go back.

On the first couple of points, I'd have to chalk that up to differences in technique. The only LHBS to which I go is 30 min from me, so I depend on HBT to get me through any questions about technique or styles :rockin:

The rest lead me to ask this question: Is there another LHBS which you can patronize? Anybody in the 21st century who charges extra for credit card usage needs to wake up. You choose to accept credit cards in order to expand your business, not punish your customers at the end of a transaction. I never understood jackasses who do this. This plus the other attitude stuff you mentioned would have had me looking for someone else after the first time.

My LHBS is good for buying equipment only, and even then I make sure I've done the math to make sure it's worth my traveling the 30 minutes each way before I set foot out of the house. All my ingredient purchases are done online (so far with Northern Brewer) and I have no gripes whatsoever. I intend to spread the love at some point, but NB's postage is about the best I've encountered (are you listening, Midwest and Austin?)

Well first off, not many people have heard of bottling bucket dip tubes OUTSIDE of here, because I created it, and have only shared it here (although I have written it up for BYO & zymurgy as well.)

So it's no surprise that he hadn't heard of it..though bending a tube and sticking it in a rubber stopper and jamming inside of the spigot to catch ALL the beer at bottling time seems like a "lot of work" to him??????

Geez?!? Guess he doesn't care that he can get 50 beers rather than 48 with 5 minutes worth of work to build it.

In terms of lhb's, remember, not every proprieter reads every forum or book or listens to every podcast, so the last book or info they may have learned may be in Papazian from 30 years ago. They also may only brew kits. Or simply JUST be of the "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" mentality.

But not every person, especially one of those "you can't teach an old dog" types aren't going to be up on the latest ideas.

Remember to a lot of LHBS'er or employees, it is only a job..not an obsession...so they are not always as necessarily passionate, or zealous learnign new things, or trying new techniques, like we are....SOme even though they have been in the business forever, may never had progressed in the hobby beyond extract kits...some may rarely brew at all.

So often it is not surprising that we know more or are at least in touch with more info that someone who does it for a living....

I'm lucky I have quite a few homebrew shops to choose from, one that I can walk to, although his selection is limited due to not a lot of business (which we hb'ers in town are trying to correct)- AND he just told me that it looks like he might be moving right across the street from my loft

(and openning a pico-winery and perhaps a brew on premise)

Then halfway between work and home, around the corner from my sister's house is the Holy mecca of Homebrew shops, Cap N Cork (which IIRC is the first hbs in metro detroit) it's large, has a high turnover so ingredients are fresh, and has quite a few employees, most of who are a passionate about brewing as we are...but even there you have a few oldtimers, who don't read every book, or look at forums, so they might not be up on the latest things...

One thing to remember, This is an ever evolving hobby...Places like this is where you find the most state of the art information/wisdom about brewing, because of the sheer number of us trying new things, hearing new things, and even breaking new ground and contributing to the body of info on the hobby...Look at some of that inventions that came out of here, and then ended up later in BYO articles by our members...

It is podcasts and forums like this where you will find a lot more state of the art, or current views, and even scientific information...I mean if Jamil, John Palmer or Papazian even farts on a podcast, one of us beergeeks are going to start a thread on it within 10 minutes.

So if you are dealing with ab old school LHBS employee...don't back down, and don't let him get to you...

Remember- It is HUMAN nature to scorn that which we don't understand... It even happens on here sometimes, when someone attempt to break new ground, or suggest something different from common wisdom (we still get people who scorn the idea of long primaries, and still believe in autolysis)...but it really is not the norm here.

But not necessarily "out there" in the world of Home brew shops.

In fact if you have one like that, Don't even tell him what you are doing buy your stuff, give him your money, and whistle your way out the door..knowing that what you might be attempting is probably light years ahead of HIS knowlege base.....

Yeah for me it's about 45 mins from home, but only 15 from work. It's the only LHBS that's close. The next one is probably 1.5 hours away or so which would never happen.

I think part of the problem is that going in there as a hb newb it was like beer mecca. I expected the owners to be this fountain of good knowledge and support, which they really aren't. I'm sure they get tired of explaining fermentation, or whatever, but it comes with the package you know.

I think like what you said equipment only might be the way to go. Just leave the advice up to hbt forums. Just get in and get out with whatever I need/can't wait to have shipped.

cvstrat said:

...White labs vials are 8.80 each, which I will never pay for again (did it once in a pinch). And their in store prices are higher than their online prices, presumably because they don't update their website very often.

Finally I do have to say they have a pretty large selection. Their prices on some things are reasonable although online is always cheaper. If I walk in with a grain bill they fill it within 10 minutes. I always choose no mill but they will mill for free. And they are always willing to give advice (albeit incorrect) anytime you ask. So they are nice enough, just seem old fashioned and not really up with what the new age home brewers are into. So does my LHBS suck?

Click to expand...

I snipped the extra stuff and focused on the important stuff. You have a well stocked LHBS with reasonable prices, friendly staff, and good inventory. Sounds like a they don't suck. Just skip the advice.

What I don't understand is that the better bottles with the spout actually have a dip tube built in. He sells those, surely he has seen it and asked himself wtf is this tube doing inside this bottle?

+1 for the idea, I cracked the end off the racking cane, used a small stopper, and it was bad ass. Totally easier than trying to tip the bucket. best 1.50 (plus 1 for the visa fee) I ever spent.

I have a very similar LHBS by me - this is why I usually use the internet stores

I guess it must be because they get very green new brewers in and it makes them feel like "experts", and this comes off as condesending to experienced brewers. Last time I was in my LHBS, my BIL wanted to start homebrewing and was going for as cheap as he could get as he lost his job. While I told him his beer would be MUCH better tasting if he used DME instead of all the sugar those canned recipes tell him - his goal was CHEAP. Ok, I can understand a brother down on his cashflow looking for beer on the cheap - so I loaned him some spare fermentation stuff so he would not have to buy it and went to the LHBS for a canned kit and a few more items. The guys there made him feel like crap for mot spending the $100+ on a new brewing setup and other misc. items. Well - we got him out for less than $20. Yep - I tried the beer a month later and it was bad tasting - but it was drinkable and had a pretty strong punch

Well - now he is hooked - really into brewing and enjoys it quite a bit. I got him to replace the sugar with DME and when he tasted that first beer - he is now hooked on making BETTER beer and improving his setup as money allows.

The moral - if he would have been put off by that LHBS's attitude, it would probably have kept him from brewing at all - and they should be encouraging the craft instead of running guys away from it OMO.

cvstrat said:

First time I stopped in I was pretty noobish. He was explaining the fermentation to me as such: Sit it in primary until bubbles only come every 4 seconds. Immediately rack to secondary. It will finish fermenting in secondary. Immediately after it stops bubbling bottle it.

Click to expand...

I've found that with homebrewing especially, there is no right or wrong answer, only opinions. Maybe not the advise I would have given, but there's a reason so many people call it secondary "fermentation". This is kind of my general consensus on retail stores, in general. You need to be prepared when you go in. Ask for their advice by all means, but that's all it is, just a guide.

cvstrat said:

Now I had a feeling that wasn't right after what I've read here. There isn't supposed to be any fermentation at all in secondary. And the beer needs time to age and clean up before you bottle/keg. So I sort of ignored his advice.

Click to expand...

Says who? I don't age my beer, well most beer anyway. What type of beer was it?

cvstrat said:

Second time I went in to buy more bottle caps, and such. I asked if he'd ever heard of a dip tube for the bottling bucket. I told him I was going to break a racking cane at the bent part and use a stopper to fabricate one. He looked at me like I was crazy and said "that just sounds like a lot of work". So I went ahead and bought the stuff anyway, and of course they charged me a $1 extra because I used a visa and spent less than 10 dollars.

Click to expand...

Yea, it's annoying, but do you they have sign up stating as such? It's kind of like the gas stations charging more for credit vs. cash. I also agree about the dip tube, sounds like a lot of work. IMO, on nice thing about no dip tube in the bottle bucket is that you leave more yeast / trub behind. That's my opinion though...

cvstrat said:

Third time I was in I was asking him about dry yeast and starters. After I mentioned that I had been using Wyeast smack packs he just looked at me with a condescending grin and sort of laughed like I was the dumbest person on the planet. Since then I've used the white labs vial, and safale us-05 dry yeast and both were great. In fact I've never had a bad fermentation with any yeast, but Wyeast is super convenient so I'm not sure wtf his deal was.

Click to expand...

That is kind of strange, do they sell Wyeast? Personally I avoid the smack packs at all cost, just because they are a pain to pour.

cvstrat said:

The last time I went in I had emailed them an order for a sierra nevada stout clone I had scaled up to 6gal. I still haven't managed to get a digital scale so I asked them to please measure the ingredients exactly. They like to sell in 1 or 1/2 oz increments. I needed exactly 4.5 oz of hops, 1.1, 1, and 1.4. I asked him since they charge the same price for hops no matter what style, could he just bill me for 4.5oz but measure them exactly to the recipe. All of this was by email, so when I showed up and asked if my order was ready he said "oh you are the one with the crazy order." Mind you that their website says "special orders are what we do". I said I don't have a scale could you weight it exact for me, even if you have to bill me extra. Their scale only weighs in ounces, and is only accurate down to 1/8th oz. So 1.1 oz is out of the question. I can get 1.125 oz but not 1.1. I can get 2.375 or 2.5 oz, but not 2.4. Call me crazy but I don't think measuring by the tenth of an ounce is too much to ask, especially at 3 dollars an ounce.

Click to expand...

You are *CRAZY* . Personally I think you are extremely lucky that they would even offer to measure out hops. Secondly, are you really complaining that they can measure to 2.375, but not 2.4?? Add in 2 more pellets and call it good.

cvstrat said:

Finally I do have to say they have a pretty large selection. Their prices on some things are reasonable although online is always cheaper. If I walk in with a grain bill they fill it within 10 minutes. I always choose no mill but they will mill for free. And they are always willing to give advice (albeit incorrect) anytime you ask. So they are nice enough, just seem old fashioned and not really up with what the new age home brewers are into. So does my LHBS suck? I'm thinking of buying 2-3 recipes of grain online from now on and buying a bulk order of hops to avoid having to go back.

Click to expand...

They have a good selection, fill grain bills quickly, mill for free, they are nice, willing to offer advice... what exactly are you complaining about again?

edit: I wasn't trying to be mean, kids are crabby and it's hot. Sounds like you have a pretty decent lhbs.

Sorry for your bad experiance. I actually have 3 homebrew stores within 30 minutes drive, but the very best is rebelbrewer.com which is right on the way to the location that I brew at Give Tom an email there, and his staff (Tyler) is great, too. I would highly recommend them, good prices and fast turn around. They try to ship out same day and have no problem bending over backwards to measure out things if you ask.

Yea, it's annoying, but do you they have sign up stating as such? It's kind of like the gas stations charging more for credit vs. cash. I also agree about the dip tube, sounds like a lot of work. IMO, on nice thing about no dip tube in the bottle bucket is that you leave more yeast / trub behind. That's my opinion though...

Trub in a bottling bucket? I usually have nothing but beer in there.

Sorry if its been said already, but:
If you pay with a visa card they can't enforce a minimum charge and although I'm not positive I bet they can't tack on additional charges. Also I'd bet all the major cards are like that. You can notify visa and they'll nip it in the bud.

edit: link for reference http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11697094/

I lived in RIC until about a year ago, and that was my LHBS. He can be a jerk. I went in that place every week for a year spent hundreds upon hundreds of dollars there, and he never remembered me, always gave me that same grin you mention when I asked an oddball question or otherwise made me feel like I was wasting his time. He's pretty much the only game in town, as far as I knew, at least. Maybe he can afford to be a jackass.

IMHO.

I've been to many different brew supply places. Whenever I'm on vacation, I'll check the phonebook and slide by and talk with the people at the place. I am always amazed that the majority of the places I go to have at least one person in there that wants to impress everyone with their knowledge, regardless if they know anything or not. They chose this business and, right or wrong, I guess I just expect the members of the brotherhood to be a little more supportive and knowledgable.
I try very hard to trade locally, and I'll even put up with a couple of bad experiences to support a store front (although as I get older, I have less time for BS). I've been brewing for ~ 25 years and I learn something every time I open this board. So, it really annoys me when I ask one of these brewmeisters at the store how long they've been brewing and they say 3 to 5 years and think they already have it mastered.
cvstrat, I would do as one of the other posters said. Get your supplies there and your fix for discussion of the the art here. - Dwain

I'm less than pleased with my LHBS as well. Their selection is very limited and it seems that they know to be out of at least one thing I want, every time I go in there.

On the upside the couple that runs it is pretty nice, so hopefully things will improve in the future.

Brian

Revvy said:

Well first off, not many people have heard of bottling bucket dip tubes OUTSIDE of here, because I created it, and have only shared it here (although I have written it up for BYO & zymurgy as well.)

Click to expand...

Might be, Revvy, that you have not seen everything under the sun. My bottling bucket has a dip tube. Works great. I can spin it from the outside, if needed.

The dip tube is plastic. If you created it, thanks.

my LHBS is a rip-off, very expensive, but nice to have in case that emergency supplies are needed I would rather pay $8 ~ 10 for shipping and avoid NC's 6.75% sales tax and my LHBS's high prices.

The closest HBS to me is attached to a brewpub that brews and serves- and I am not exaggerating- some of the foulest beer I've ever tasted. I'd love to have a good place nearby, but there are some really excellent online retailers (Austin Homebrew Supply, Brewmasters Warehouse, etc.) that do a fine job and are quick to give accurate answers to any question I might have.

I too get the same dissatisfied look from my LHBS curator when I come in there to buy some annoying amount of Pale Malt @ $2/Lbs that he has to grind. I walk out only spending only $20.00 including the packet of Notts yeast I buy. But do remember many of these shops have $200k-$300k or more invested in their kettles and stock and carboys and other equipment and bank on you dropping $120 for them to U-Brew your beer every two weeks. Making a $20 sale on a handful of ingredients just doesn't fire them up.
Gradually I'm becoming more autonomous as I grow my own hops and buy direct from Gambrinus Malting Co. which is on 5 minutes from my house.
Soon I'll only need him for his Wyeast when I'm in the mood for a certain flavour and he can brew U-Brews for all those that enjoy a "good Coors Light". And if I wasn't so lazy I'd collect my own vonFreakin 3068 Weiphenstephan Weizen.

I have to drive 45 minutes each way to the only shop around that I know of. Last time I was there, I was shocked to see hops at $3.99 per oz. They didn't even have bigger packages, so I ordered 2 lbs from hops direct for $32.00. When I was there yesterday, I saw some hops had gone down to $2.99 an oz. I felt a little guilty. I like to keep business local. I have to draw the line some where. I have my own business, so ........

When I took plastic for payment, I paid a percentage and a fee for each transaction. I didn't charge the customer for it. This is what they are trying to make up for. I am not saying I agree or disagree with their policy.

If they have what you need, then its a good place. I AM lucky where I shop.

I'll even give em a little plug.... NIAGARA TRADITIONS. They have a web page. They also have my dollar on the wall. I was the first customer in the new store.

David

StunnedMonkey said:

I snipped the extra stuff and focused on the important stuff. You have a well stocked LHBS with reasonable prices, friendly staff, and good inventory. Sounds like a they don't suck. Just skip the advice.

Click to expand...

+1

Get your sht and get out. YOU are the customer, and don't deserve to be treated like you are ignorant. Besides, you already know you know more than him about brewing, so put on a smile, get your stuff, and go home and brew!

My LHBS is like 1.5 hours drive from my house. I could put up with a smart-ass owner if I could get hops or yeast on the spur of the moment!

The homebrew store that I have been to was such crap on the prices. I mean after reading on here what people pay for homebrewing equipment and ingredients I feel like kicking his shins when I walk in. As for advice, the dude is good about not giving bad advice. He is honest when he doesn't necessarily know the answer. He is more of a winemaker. Good thing is that he is always willing to give a lot of samples of homemade wine.:rockin:

cvstrat said:

Third time I was in I was asking him about dry yeast and starters. After I mentioned that I had been using Wyeast smack packs he just looked at me with a condescending grin and sort of laughed like I was the dumbest person on the planet. Since then I've used the white labs vial, and safale us-05 dry yeast and both were great. In fact I've never had a bad fermentation with any yeast, but Wyeast is super convenient so I'm not sure wtf his deal was.

Click to expand...

What was his problem with wyeast smack packs? What did he prefer or recommend?

Droot said:

I have to drive 45 minutes each way to the only shop around that I know of. Last time I was there, I was shocked to see hops at $3.99 per oz. They didn't even have bigger packages, so I ordered 2 lbs from hops direct for $32.00. When I was there yesterday, I saw some hops had gone down to $2.99 an oz. I felt a little guilty. I like to keep business local. I have to draw the line some where. I have my own business, so ........

When I took plastic for payment, I paid a percentage and a fee for each transaction. I didn't charge the customer for it. This is what they are trying to make up for. I am not saying I agree or disagree with their policy.

If they have what you need, then its a good place. I AM lucky where I shop.

I'll even give em a little plug.... NIAGARA TRADITIONS. They have a web page. They also have my dollar on the wall. I was the first customer in the new store.

David

Click to expand...

New Store? They moved? I would have been pissed next time I was going there.

It amazes me how hit and miss shops can be. I've been all-grain brewing for 10 years and it was my local homebrew club and retail shop that helped educate me in this craft.
I was just recently transfered to a new city and of course the first thing I did was search for the closest brewing retail location. And to my surprise, it was 5 minutes from my house! I went in there and was shocked by the prices. $3.99 for an oz of wilamette? $2.50lb for 2-row? $3.50 for S-05? I was just speechless that he was still in business! I wasnt even greeted and the clerk was putting together a system for someone who just got into brewing. I pretended I was shopping just to hear how he told him to brew.

Customer "I've seen people ferment in this big glass bottles on youtube. Do I need one of these?"
Clerk "No, those are a waste of money, you always want to use plastic buckets"

Customer "Ok I'll take 2 of those buckets then. Do I need a lid for these?"
Clerk "Oh no, all you need to do is cover it with plastic wrap and a rubber band"

after that my jaw hit the ground. But good thing for this gentleman I just went to my P.O Box and picked up some fittings I ordered from midwestsupplies.com. I went out to my car and grabbed the free "how to brew dvd" they include with every order and their current catalog. I couldn't allow this moron to give someone who is eager to learn about brewing a bad experience. I went back in to give him the items along with my business card.

The HBS nearest me has a couple employees that know nothing. The guys wife is there sometime and she just runs the register etc..

However directly behind the shop, connected with a door is the Maltose Falcons clubhouse. The oldest Homebrew club in California and if I can't get help or an answer from them (if someone is there) then Imight as well call it a day and go home.. haha I'm actually going to join the club this month / next once I can get down there on a weekend.

I see the same thing with car performance shops. A few select shops and people know what they are talking about and can help, the rest are just there because it's a job. Hell I used to goto a local IMPORT shop to get DOMESTIC parts ordered because they knew their import stuff and while didn't know anything about domestics.. they had a good foundation and I could ask basic questions and order parts through them and still get a discount.

Start shopping online at Austin Homebrew, Northern or Morebeer... you can call them and they are very helpfull and happy to help the customer.

At least you have a LHBS, the only one here is 70 miles away and prices are double internet prices . . . . . . I resort to making my own . . . . everything.

WOW, The Maltose Falcons...that's the like Harlem Globetrotters of clubs...AWESOME!!!!

But it is funny that the LHBS sucks there though..None of the members happens to won it does they?

chenwood said:

Sorry if its been said already, but:
If you pay with a visa card they can't enforce a minimum charge and although I'm not positive I bet they can't tack on additional charges. Also I'd bet all the major cards are like that. You can notify visa and they'll nip it in the bud.

edit: link for reference Surprise: Stores can't set credit card minimum - ConsumerMan- msnbc.com

Click to expand...

May be part of the merchant agreement but that doesn't meaning charging a fee is not reasonable. On the contrary, I believe people who use a credit card for a $2 purchase are in the wrong and being completely inconsiderate of the proprietor and even the other customers. (After all, somebody has to pay for the inconsiderate behaviour.)

Fact is, most CC processing companies charge a per transaction fee of at least $.25 if not $.50 or even $1.00 plus a percentage of the transaction.

By complaining about them charging a fee what you are saying is that they should have to lose money on small transactions. And make it up in increased volume? Not. In fact what has to happen is that they have to pass along the added per transaction cost to other transactions. Why should I have to pay more because you can't be considerate enough to carry a lousy $2 in cash?

Luckily, Visa and MC and especially AMEX understand this and would NEVER enforce this codicil of their vendor agreement. And besides, the agreement only says that they cannot charge extra. They are absolutely entitled, by law, to completely refuse the transaction.

EDIT: I just read my vendor agreement and there is no mention whatsoever of setting minimum transaction amounts. (I pay $.75 per transaction before the commission, btw.)

passedpawn said:

Might be, Revvy, that you have not seen everything under the sun. My bottling bucket has a dip tube. Works great. I can spin it from the outside, if needed.

The dip tube is plastic. If you created it, thanks.

Click to expand...

Too bad you didn't patent it. Sounds like someone else thought of it too besides yourself.

dontman said:

May be part of the merchant agreement but that doesn't meaning charging a fee is not reasonable.

Click to expand...

Whether or not its reasonable is irrelevant, if it violates the merchant's agreement with VISA/MC/etc. And yes, if people call, they do enforce it. I've seen several stores lose their ability to charge via VISA after people called.

jspence1 said:

New Store? They moved? I would have been pissed next time I was going there.

Click to expand...

They moved around 1999 give or take. From Niagara falls to The present location corner of Military and Sheriden. I was the last customer in the old store and first in the new one.

Becky Remembered me and the Brew on the river we did a LONG time ago. I brewed an all munich malt and the club split up the batch so each one could use a different yeast.

David

Homercidal said:

+1

Get your sht and get out. YOU are the customer, and don't deserve to be treated like you are ignorant. Besides, you already know you know more than him about brewing, so put on a smile, get your stuff, and go home and brew!

My LHBS is like 1.5 hours drive from my house. I could put up with a smart-ass owner if I could get hops or yeast on the spur of the moment!

Click to expand...

I wouldn't necessarily agree with this statement. Bob has won numerous comps and basically doesn't compete any more because of it. He may have his idiosyncracies, but I would say he is far from a jerk or smart-ass.

There are techniques on this board that are "new" enough for him to be out of the loop on, but that doesn't make him wrong. There are plenty of horror stories on this board about LHBS that have terrible customer service, old and stale stock etc., but I'll chime in as a frequent customer and say that he's probably one of the best in the business.

As far as his explanation on fermentation, maybe he "dumbs it down" for noobs. I mean, if you had to explain it over and again, maybe you'd find the easiest method to do so.

Revvy said:

Geez?!? Guess he doesn't care that he can get 50 beers rather than 48 with 5 minutes worth of work to build it.

Click to expand...

I've got to check out this technique, but do you really have 24 oz. of beer in the bottom of your bottling bucket that you can't bottle without a diptube?

It's also possible that he didn't understand the explanation of this application.

And the silly grin is just typical Bob, he is a friendly guy and not the least bit condescending in my experiences.

Droot said:

They moved around 1999 give or take. From Niagara falls to The present location corner of Military and Sheriden. I was the last customer in the old store and first in the new one.

Becky Remembered me and the Brew on the river we did a LONG time ago. I brewed an all munich malt and the club split up the batch so each one could use a different yeast.

David

Click to expand...

Well thats just wrong messing with me like that. if a store moved 9 years ago its not a new location

My LHBS has excellent ingredients.. average selection, and uh... they recently hired a bunch of new staff and uh... It honestly reminded me a little bit of when my local fish store (LFS) turned me down to work there when they were hiring, and I would go back there and there would be dead fish and algae in the holding tanks. Although not totally. The grains were crushed very well for my last grain bill. The good news is that the quality of a LHBS all boils down to the quality of the ingredients, and they have quality ingredients.


Pic related, it was my aquarium... Enough melancholy, time for a homebrew! =)

Flyin' Lion said:

As far as his explanation on fermentation, maybe he "dumbs it down" for noobs. I mean, if you had to explain it over and again, maybe you'd find the easiest method to do so.

Click to expand...

I think this is an important point to restate. One of the things I've had some concern about with this board is some of the constant berating of say Alton Brown's episode of beer, Craigtube, or some LHBS owner.


One of the LHBS that I like in Atlanta, I have to really drive out to. But the owner stocks the most stuff, and is a certified beer judge and knows quite a bit about brewing (he's probably familiar with any topic on this forum, whether he believes in them or not). But one thing I've noticed when I've gone in for a keg part or some ecclectic grain bill......most all of his costumers are buying Brewer's Best extract brew kits: most of his time is spent answering the same basic questions from folks just getting into the hobby. Instead of talking about active fermentation and optimal attenuation, I'm sure he gives the same "basic" tips kit instructions might give. If you're into AG, crush your own grain, and do your own kegging....then you're already in a very small minority of brewers around. I consider myself lucky, then, that I do have LHBS owners that can supply my needs.

CV - I have also been a semi-frequent customer at this LHBS, and another store in Richmond that sells homebrew equipment and ingredients as a second thought to kitchen supply. With the drive, higher prices, and all other aspects in consideration I have been thinking of opening a LHBS myself near the fan/downtown. The only thing I worry about is having a customer base to support one. You may know the areas homebrew population a bit better than me, as I have not really met any others in Richmond (except the few I have converted). Do you think the city could support it?

Sounds like he has some strong opinions about brewing; ingredients, methods, yeast, etc. People like that really have no place in the homebrewing community. Anything we all can't agree on shouldn't be used.

Realistically, I'd say you LHBS learned to brew quite a while back, doesn't like Wyeast and charges a buck for small credit purchases because the CC company hits him with a minimum fee.

I guess i'm really lucky i have Nothern and Midwest right down the street from me

david_42 said:

Sounds like he has some strong opinions about brewing; ingredients, methods, yeast, etc. People like that really have no place in the homebrewing community. Anything we all can't agree on shouldn't be used.

Click to expand...

That actually made me chuckle... there are very few things that homebrewers agree on, 100% anyway. That's one of the benefits of being a homebrewer, I can do what I want. As I said earlier, there's no right or wrong answer, only opinions.