Help with wiring diagram/parts list

So im trying to get together a complete list of items needed and a diagram for my planned brewing setup 2.0

Im planning a 2 vessel RIMS electric system controlled by BCS-460, going to have 2 temp probes, 2-12 VDC pumps, 2 elements (1 120v, 1 240V)...Heres what I got so far for parts:

2 - 3 pin XLR mall chassis mount connector (for temp probe connections)
4 - 3 position switches (2 for pumps, 2 for elements)
2 - twist lock female receptacle (elements)
2 - 121AC Door Chime Transformer (downstep 121 VAC down to 16)
2 - DC AC Converter (convert to 12 VDC for pumps)
2 - SSR (elements)
1 - BCS-460 Controller (I believe this will take the place of PIDs but correct me if im wrong)

What I think im missing:
Think I need relays for the AC power for the SSRs for the elements

P-J if you read this, I know you tend to help a lot with the diagrams, if you could make a diagram for me to help that would be greatly appreciated.

Im also trying to do a modified version of theelectricbrewery build but have it wired to the BCS instead of PIDs

checkout www.ebrewsupply.com They have BCS control panel kits which list the parts along w/ wiring diagrams. This might give you a better understanding of what you need to build a control panel the way you want it using a BCS.

can you link to the pumps you are thinking of? there has to be a better way to run them than 120v > 16v > 12v... you loose power and efficiency at each transformation. if you have to use 12VDC pumps, just buy a $30-40 PC power supply and use the 12v rail. that is a really easy and cheap source of 300-600+ watts of 12v power.

This is the PUMP

Im open to better methods, and $30-40 is quite expensive for a dc power converter, currently im using a simple ac to dc converter and it works great. I was just using the info from theelectricbrewery and how he does it for the 5v dc displays he uses

Adeering,

Yup, I've read your thread.

Questions:
What is your power feed? (240V-30A or 240V-50A)
Your plan is: 2 vessel RIMS - 2 temp probes - 2 pumps - 2 elements:
With 2 vessels (HLT & BOIL) - Why a RIMS?
Your elements would be placed in the RIMS and the BOIL. Correct?
You are already planning on 2 pumps so why not just a HLT & BOIL?

(I think that a RIMS can seriously over complicate a brew system.)
HEY - I'm entitled to my opinion - No?

OR - Go with 3 elements: HLT - RIMS - BOIL.
That gives you options when things go wrong.

P-J

Hey P-J, thanks for reading and helping:

Answers or try to:
Power feed will be installed in my garage, so guess it could be either 240V-30a or 240V-50a, still doing some research on everything, electrical my weak spot in engineering, not sure which is better or why

The 2 vessels would be a Mash Tun and a Boil Kettle, not a HLT. Pretty much what im planning is to have a mash in one vessel and the boil in the other. This way I can do a full boil volume mash no sparge and then transfer via pump off the grains to the BK. The RIMS is there to keep mash temps. I guess I could have an element in the MT to make it a HLT/MT and just do it more like a direct fired RIMS. I know its not the most efficient method to do full volume mash with no sparge, but im ok with mid 70 efficiency thats about what I get now with BIAB.

Current plan was yes to put one element in the RIMS tube and the second one in the BK

I like the idea of a 2 vessel system with only the BK and MT and not using a HLT. I know its not as efficient, but I like the smaller footprint of only two vessels and less equipment to clean. Pretty much I want to make a BIAB system with a different vessel instead of a bag so im not having to lift a bag out anymore and clean a bag (they are a pain in the ass to clean).

my initial plan was 2 pumps so I could make it completely automatic, and eventually push a button and watch it go to work, but what im leaning towards now is just one pump with quick disconnects so I just switch the IN/OUTPUTS, because I like doing stuff during the brew.

So to recap, youve got me to think about some things (which is why im posting), so this is the plan currently:
Gonna do a modified Brutus 20 type build

2 Vessels- 1 MT and 1 BK , both equipped with elements
2 Pumps - 1 to recirculate mash and transfer to BK, 1 to transfer from BK to either MT or thru CFC to fermenter
(I could get away with one pump and just use disconnects to change everything during the boil and I might do that at first until I get the second pump and not do the Brutus 20 "sparge" and treat it like BIAB no sparge)

So brew day would follow these steps:
1. Heat water to strike temp in MT
2. Add Grains and mash recirculating mash
( 3 & 4 Optional if decide to do Brutus 20 sparge)
3. Heat sparge water to temp in the BK
4. Dull transfer wort to BK and sparge water to MT until OG is stable throughout
5. Transfer Wort to BK and start boil

From here its a normal setup to transfer to fermenter thru CFC

Hope this clears stuff up

Ok - I think I have a little understanding of what you are trying to accomplish.

I'm posting 2 seperate diagrams that you might consider.
The 1st is for use with 4500W elements plus a 2000W RIMS element.
The 2nd is for use with 5500W elements plus a 2000W RIMS element.
Either one can be powered with a 50A-240V feed.

As always - Click on the image for a full scale diagram printable on Tabloid Paper (11" x 17")



And the second diagram:



Once you decide how you want to power and heat your system, just eliminate the circuitry that you will not need for your brewery plan. (The HLT element or the RIMS element)

And of course - the HLT in your case is the MASH tun.

I hope this is of some help.

P-J

Thanks, at work at the moment so will take a closer look when I get home.

Another question, I want to also wire my pumps (which are the topsflo 12vdc ones) to 3 way switches to be contolled by the bcs.

How would you recommend converting from the 240v power source and wiring it

Thanks for all the help

Adeering said:

Thanks, at work at the moment so will take a closer look when I get home.

Another question, I want to also wire my pumps (which are the topsflo 12vdc ones) to 3 way switches to be contolled by the bcs.

How would you recommend converting from the 240v power source and wiring it

Thanks for all the help

Click to expand...

With the 12V DC pumps:
Eliminate circuit breakers 2 & 3 (supplying power to switches 2 & 3).
Wire you 12V DC power supply on breaker 1 (with the power to outlet 4).
Route the 12V DC power to the SSRs for switches 2 & 3 and to the switches.
Then you must change the 2 120V outlets to outlets that are compatable with your 12V power for the pumps.
The switch indicator lights would still be energized using 120V using the second switch contact set (4, 5 & 6 on the switch drawings).

That's it.

Adeering said:

This is the PUMP

Im open to better methods, and $30-40 is quite expensive for a dc power converter, currently im using a simple ac to dc converter and it works great. I was just using the info from theelectricbrewery and how he does it for the 5v dc displays he uses

Click to expand...

i guess my question is, then... what are you using these (door chime xformers) for? i was under the impression you were going from 120VAC > 16VDC > 12VDC just to drive the pump... now i understand your using them for something else, but what? just a 5VDC source for relay triggers?

$30-40 for a computer power supply was assuming you were driving a decent sized pump(s) and needed 5 or 10 amps. if all you need is a 5v signal and a few watts on 12vdc, you can get a super cheap power supply for everything, like this or this

that way you can elinate both AC-DC converters, and both doorbell chime xformers.

and ill add, though i know most people dont care to hear it, but i will never suggest a utility grade pump for pumping food products. im all for repurposing equipment for the most part, but when it comes to making food there are limits. its especially important when mixing utility grade plastic with hot food products.

P-J

Thanks for the help I think I got it now, last question, what would you suggest for the 12v dc power supply, Im assuming it would need to be a converter to change the 120v AC to 12V DC.


Audger,
The purpose of the doorbell chime, according to kals writeup, was to convert the 120AC down to 16AC for the DC to AC converters. Im not entirely sure why and thats part of the reason why I posted here. As for the power supplies you posted, seems like a lot for two pumps, Im currently using this wired to the pump and it works great. Those just seem really big to use and fit inside a case.

As for the pump, it is food grade plastic, they are solar hot water pumps, and there are several threads on here discussing them. They are rated for above boiling temps. They are also the same as THESE just without the SS, which would be nice but not too important. They have great reviews from the people who tried them. I just got mine and have only done one batch and my hop bag fell inside and hop sludge clogged the intake, so havent fully field tested for myself yet.

Adeering said:

P-J

Thanks for the help I think I got it now, last question, what would you suggest for the 12v dc power supply, Im assuming it would need to be a converter to change the 120v AC to 12V DC.

...

Click to expand...

I did a search and came up with these 2 power supplies.

12V DC 10A
www.amazon.com/120w-Switching-Power-Supply-Transformer


12V DC 15A
www.amazon.com/Switching-Power-Supply-Transformer-Regulated

Hope this helps. At least it's better than a wall wort. (I think.)

P-J

Wow! those diagrams are nuts!

ODI3 said:

Wow! those diagrams are nuts!

Click to expand...

???

Why do you say that?

P-J said:

???

Why do you say that?

Click to expand...

Because of the amount of detail you went into. A lot of work.
I guess I'm lazy, simple ladder logic diagrams are all I use.

Little known fact: Ladder diagrams were invented in the mid-sixties by an electrical designer down in L.A. working for C.F. Braun Engineering. The designer's name is Ernest Bergman. He's my dad.

OneHoppyGuy said:

Because of the amount of detail you went into. A lot of work.
I guess I'm lazy, simple ladder logic diagrams are all I use.

Little known fact: Ladder diagrams were invented in the mid-sixties by an electrical designer down in L.A. working for C.F. Braun Engineering. The designer's name is Ernest Bergman. He's my dad.

Click to expand...

Amazing.!

And you replied to a post to ODI3 because? A lot of work? I didn't know that YOU invested anything in the reply to ODI3.

??? What is you point?

BTW - I do my diagrams so that everyone can envision the wiring plan. They do not need to be experience with "Ladder diagrams" and dig through tons of **** to figure them out.

You don't like it? Geeze.!!! You just might be the bolt of lightning that persuades me to quit doing what I do.

GTH.!

P-J, both ODI3 and OneHoppyGuy were paying you compliments! I think you misunderstood their posts.

JonW said:

P-J, both ODI3 and OneHoppyGuy were paying you compliments! I think you misunderstood their posts.

Click to expand...

Really?

I doubt it. Just measure the tone of the replys.

I've invested hundreds of hours doing diagrams for this community. (do a search)

Right now I'm - NEVER MIND.!!!

I don't know what amperage you're needing for the pumps but Radio Shack sells step down transformers for between $3 and $15 for 12v or 24v and a wide range of amperages. Then you just need to connect the output to a bridge rectifier and presto you have your stepdown/AC to DC cheap and relatively efficient,

This is what I'm using to power a couple PC fans in my control box to move air over the heat sinks.

Uh P-J... I was complimenting you and saying I'm lazy. Your contributions are MUCH appreciated.

P-J said:

Really?

I doubt it. Just measure the tone of the replys.

I've invested hundreds of hours doing diagrams for this community. (do a search)

Right now I'm - NEVER MIND.!!!

Click to expand...

I read them as compliments as well. I think onehoppy was saying that you put alot of work into the diagram not that your diagram made alot of work for the op The amount of work you put into helping us all is staggering and we appreciate it

Yeah, last thing in the world I want to do is jump in the middle of a forum fight but the internet is one of the absolute worst ways to communicate. There is SO much room for misinterpretation and so little ability to properly convey anything other than very literal meanings.

That being said, anyone that would troll you P-J is a turd and should get the ban hammer.

P-J: The duck you use at the end of your RIMS tube. Is that male or female? Can I substitute a goose?

Hey pj, Thanks a lot for producing these diagrams, I actually spend a few hrs going through one of the simpler biab ones and was pretty impressed, when I saw this one my head blew up. Sorry I wasn't more descriptive in my last post.

Actually, your diagram and parts list inspired me to do a ebiab build, I definitely think it would have been outside my ability without your assistance, in both parts list, Where to buy them, how much the build would cost, and how to put them together. Thanks again!