Would either Pilsen malt or Vienna malt be a good substitute for American 2-row in a

Looking to make a few small 2.5 gallon batches of cream ale style beers but I am out of 2-row and pale malt. Should I substitute using either pilsen or vienna in its place? (I know I will need to extend the boil time for all pilsen malt)

Basic Cream Ale (2.5 gallons BIAB)

4 lbs 2-row or pale malt
0.75 lbs flaked corn
0.25 lbs carapils
0.25 lbs of Crystal 20L
0.25 lbs flaked wheat

0.33 oz Cluster 60 min
0.33 oz Cluster 10 min
0.33 oz Cluster 5 min.

White labs cream ale yeat

Sure, use pilsner malt. I think it has a distinct grainy taste (I've only used Weyermann), but it will work fine in a cream ale. Probably improve it (not a fan of the style).

Agreed. Though Vienna would lend an interesting sweetness to it. Plus some orange color. Go Pilsner if you want to be safe, add some Vienna if you're feeling saucy.

I am wanting to brew some beer for a party in 6 weeks where there will be some homebrew virgins who just drink the lighter side of BMC style beers. I don't really want 5 gallons of this but enough for a good party or two.

msa8967 said:

I am wanting to brew some beer for a party in 6 weeks where there will be some homebrew virgins who just drink the lighter side of BMC style beers. I don't really want 5 gallons of this but enough for a good party or two.

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1: I'll never brew with corn again. Ever. It just ruins any beer it touches, including cream ales. Brew with rice (i.e., minute rice) instead if you want to lighten it up (color and flavor).

2: IMO, you'd be better off making a bohemian pilsner (pils malt with a bit of carapils, and a bit of munich if you want some color or it'll be really light). Even if you make it as an ale, it'll be better. If you can't lager it, just use a clean yeast (S-05 or a kolsch yeast).

TyTanium said:

Agreed. Though Vienna would lend an interesting sweetness to it. Plus some orange color. Go Pilsner if you want to be safe, add some Vienna if you're feeling saucy.

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How about 3 lbs Pilsner and 1 lb Vienna? Can these be used well togther?

passedpawn said:

1: I'll never brew with corn again. Ever. It just ruins any beer it touches, including cream ales. Brew with rice (i.e., minute rice) instead if you want to lighten it up (color and flavor).

2: IMO, you'd be better off making a bohemian pilsner (pils malt with a bit of carapils, and a bit of munich if you want some color or it'll be really light). Even if you make it as an ale, it'll be better. If you can't lager it, just use a clean yeast (S-05 or a kolsch yeast).

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I'll set the flaked corn out for the squirrels and substitute some flaked rice. I already made a yeast starter out of the cream ale yeast and I am out of US-05. No LHBS in my area so all of my yeast and hops are mail order.

msa8967 said:

How about 3 lbs Pilsner and 1 lb Vienna? Can these be used well togther?

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Sounds like it would make a nice euro Blonde! Hop it with some noble hops and call it a Spicy Euro Blonde! Something no guy in their right mind could pass up!

Bull

Oh yea, and on the corn, if it's fresh, I'll add about .75 lbs. to a 5 gal batch. No more.

I use pils for everything, except sometimes I use MO. Corn is fine to use too.

By all means brew with the corn. My taste is not yours. If you haven't, try it at least once.

bullinachinashop said:

Sounds like it would make a nice euro Blonde! Hop it with some noble hops and call it a Spicy Euro Blonde! Something no guy in their right mind could pass up!

Bull

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Can you suggest a good noble hop to use for this recipe? have Hallertau, Tettnanger and Saaz on hand

passedpawn said:

By all means brew with the corn. My taste is not yours. If you haven't, try it at least once.

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Even if it is considered an off-flavor!

msa8967 said:

Can you suggest a good noble hop to use for this recipe?

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3.5# Pilsen
.5# Vienna
.5# Flaked corn
Any Noble( Hallertau, Hersbrucker, Tettnang, maybe Styrian Goldings) bittered to about 17 IBU's and then again @ 10 and 0 just for a touch of flavor and aroma would work well.

Man I'm thirsty just thinking about it!

Bull

passedpawn said:

By all means brew with the corn. My taste is not yours. If you haven't, try it at least once.

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The flaked corn I have came with an order 7 months ago so I doubt it is very fresh. Might be best to not use any in this batch.

If it was sealed, it's probably fine. Taste it. Is it fresh and smooth? Or bland and stale?

all of those hops are close. go with 17-19 ibu. has that corn been refrigerated or frozen?

If you brew it, I'll swap with you a Cascade Blonde I'm brewing tomorrow.

Bull

lumpher said:

all of those hops are close. go with 17-19 ibu. has that corn been refrigerated or frozen?

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Corn came shipped in a large bag closed with a ziptie. It has been at 66 F since it arrived.

bullinachinashop said:

If you brew it, I'll swap with you a Cascade Blonde I'm brewing tomorrow.

Bull

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I love to see your recipe for a cascade blonde. I can usually get two brew sessions done a weekend.

Which part of Ohio are you in? I grew up in Dayton.

Your recipe looks pretty good to me. I would make two suggestions though. I would bring the corn down to 0.5 lbs and I given your crowd, consider adding a little sugar to your brew to lighten it up a bit.

Also, the pilsner malt will be a fine substitution for 2-row. Even if you didn't do a 90 minute boil, the subtle DMS is in the style.

Good luck with the beer, sounds tasty.

I'm 20 miles east of Cleveland. Just went to Dayton last week for a college visit.

Here's the recipe off the top of my head
4# 2 row
4# English Pale Ale Malt
8oz Honey Malt
4oz C10
2 oz Acid Malt
.5 Cascade @60
.5 Cascade@ 15
.5 Cascade@ 10
.5 Cascade@ 0

I make some water adjustments to bring my water into a slightly malt focused profile.

I'll ferment this batch with Nottingham, because that's what I have on hand, starting @ 63 and letting it ramp to 65.

Mash @ 154 for 60 min

Target of 75% eff

I've brewed a Blonde many times and really like to tweek it every time, but it always comes out great and is a real crowd pleaser.

Last but not least, I'd leave the corn out too! Save it for a Cream ale or an CAP.

Bull

Is the 2 oz acid malt absolutely needed for this Cascade Blonde recipe? I am not sure where I could find it anywhere near where I live. I could try to put this in my next order.

I add it to get my ph right. Your water may not require it. I'd start without it or use some 5.2 ph stabilizer if you want.

MSA, Did you brew?
I brewed on Saturday. All went well and it's fermenting away @ 64 degrees.
I change up the yeast to safale 05.
My gravity came in a little low (1.043) because I had a little less boil-off and ended with 5.5 gallons to the fermentor.

Bull

I was not able to brew either today or yesterday. On friday the doctor's office confirmed that my wife is indeed expecting (our second child) and most of this weekend she has been feeling very tired and having morning sickness throughout the day so I had to watch our 2 year much of the time. Turned out OK becuase their was very little activity in the cream ale yeast starter I made. Stepped it up again yesterday and found signs of activity going on. Hope to be able to use it next weekend.

I copied down your recipe for the cascade ale and plan to make this as soon as I get some more 2-row and pale ale malt later this spring. Good to hear your brew turned out well.

msa8967 said:

On friday the doctor's office confirmed that my wife is indeed expecting (our second child)

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Congratulations!

Congratulations! I remember the early years... Now the youngest is 17.
A whole different set of problems.
I'll let you know how it comes out in a few weeks.
Bull