My new brew system, a brutus 10 with some nice modifications

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I am just in the beginnings of Brutalizing my brewery. I have just moved across the country and had to split my old brewing set up with my brew-bro that I had bought everything with. I kept the SS conical and he kept the rest. Now that I have the chance to rebuild from square one I am looking at a brutus type system. Your build is current and affordable. Thanks for doing such a thorough reporting job here. You are an inspiration, and dare I correct Lonnie at this fledgling stage, that isn't just Blue, for all the old driveway garage folks out there that is the most beautiful use of "header blue" I have ever seen.
 
Thanks!

I've been getting some more requests for a wiring diagram of my control box. I'll try to put that together soon.

Today is brew day #2 on this system! :rockin:

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Josh
 
So how are you liking it? And did i see your name on another thread about the brewtroller? I have been reading so many threads about building I am loosing track here ;-) I'd love to hear about the brewtroller if you have some experience.

Thanks
 
So how are you liking it? And did i see your name on another thread about the brewtroller? I have been reading so many threads about building I am loosing track here ;-) I'd love to hear about the brewtroller if you have some experience.
Thanks

The system is a joy to brew on! I'm not using a brewtroller, though I did consider going that route at one point.

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Josh
 
Josh,

You have a really cool rig there. I'm starting down the same path and would really like to see the wiring diagram as well. One quick questions is when you go to manual temp control does the PID controller turn off completely or are you just bypassing the SSR on the PID? Great Job!

Ryan
 
Awesome job, and an excellent report on the build. My brew brothers and I are planning a Brutus build in the near future and I think we'll definitely give your design a good close look.
 
Ok, here is the wiring diagram as promised. I apologize for not using proper symbols and notation. I really didn't feel very welcomed in either of the free schematic programs I tried so I just threw this together.

WiringDiagram.gif


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Josh
 
Dude,
Now that is my kind of wiring diagram. thanks for "throwing" that together. I am thinking your system is worthy of cloning for my purposes and budget. Wonderful information for me. This was the part of the Brutus I was most worried about and now it just doesn't seem that bad. Also glad to hear your rig is treating you well. Enjoy it!! I'm sure I will be back at you with more questions in a bit. Thanks!
 
One quick questions is when you go to manual temp control does the PID controller turn off completely or are you just bypassing the SSR on the PID? Great Job!
Ryan

Thanks Ryan! The PID always has power from the 110V terminal bridge, so it will be on when the main power switch is on.

Each of the HOA (Hand/Off/Auto) switches has 24V wired to it. When the switch is in Auto, it is passing the 24V to the PID to do with it what it pleases. The PID will either pass it on to the valve, or not, based on the temp reading. When the switch is in Manual mode, the 24V is not sent to the PID, but instead is sent directly to the valve, telling it to open. See my wiring "diagram" above for more info.

I hope that helps,

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Josh
 
Wow! That is great information. I really appreciate it. Well done and credit well deserved! Thanks for this. I think I remember you posting a parts list earlier with suppliers so I am going to go check this out. I can't wait to brew so I will have to try and replicate this in phases. Just got my first March pump and am going to brew with SWMBO this weekend. Thanks again! :mug:
 
Josh, thanks for your response and the wiring info, the diagram is great. I understand all but the toggle switch for the gas valve. Like I said, I'm a bit of an electrical wanker!

My toggle switch has 6 posts. Any thoughs on which lead goes where? Normally I would learn by experimenting, but I don't want to risk killing my Auber PID's. If you or anyone could clarify this for me I would be most appreciative.

cheers,

k.
 
My toggle switch has 6 posts. Any thoughs on which lead goes where? Normally I would learn by experimenting, but I don't want to risk killing my Auber PID's. If you or anyone could clarify this for me I would be most appreciative.

Sure. Given the six posts as:

(Top)
1 2
3 4
5 6
(Bottom)

You want to connect the hot 24V to both 3 and 4. Then connect 1 to the 24V valve so it is activated when your switch is in Down/Fire mode. Then connect 6 to the PID so that it is activated when the switch is in Up/Auto mode. If you are using the same PID I used, 6 would go to PID terminal 13, and PID terminal 14 would go to the 24V valve.

In any case, make sure you use a voltmeter to double check your switch positions are doing what you want.

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Josh
 
Awesome! Thanks brother. In your build you used the transformer because your particular valves were 24v correct? Since I plan on aquiring 120v valves, you see any issues with the 120v going into PID terminal 13 from the toggle switch?

They are the same PID's as you have, and if I understand the specs correctly, the power rating is 85 - 250vac, but always good to have a second opinion from someone who knows what they are doing!!!

Thanks again - I'm going to call my system mini Landin! Ha.
 
Thanks Josh that helps a lot and makes total sense. I have the PID's wired up on the bench now and working in my 'test' environment. ;)

One other question regarding your pumps... did you take them apart to wire in the 'computer' power cord or did you put in some kind of splice or switch inline?? My pumps came with about 3 feet of non-terminated cord so I would either have to take the pumps apart to attach a new cord or do some kind of splice which I'm not too sure I want to do. I like the computer power cord connector idea as I have a ton of old power supplies and computer cords laying around collecting dust. Thanks again!

Ryan
 
They are the same PID's as you have, and if I understand the specs correctly, the power rating is 85 - 250vac, but always good to have a second opinion from someone who knows what they are doing!!!

As long as the PID is rated for at least the peak input voltage and amperage of the valve, you will be fine. As I recall, that PID maxes out at something like 3A at 240V, but if need-be, clarify the point with Auber. In my case, the valves are 24V at some extremely low amperage, so well under the spec.

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Josh
 
Thanks Josh that helps a lot and makes total sense. I have the PID's wired up on the bench now and working in my 'test' environment. ;)

This is exactly what I did, and I highly recommend it to everyone doing something like this! I sanity-checked each new connection and component with a DMM as I added to the circuit.

One other question regarding your pumps... did you take them apart to wire in the 'computer' power cord or did you put in some kind of splice or switch inline??

I spliced the two cords together so I could get a nice long cord. My pumps came with a wall plug cord that I cut the end off. Strip the wires, slip on heat shrink, twist wires together, flux, solder each one, then seal it with the heat shrink. I put black electrical tape on the outside to provide more rigidity.

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Josh
 
J,

About to start ordering my parts for your Electrical build. Now that you had a few brews under your belt, are there any easy changes you would make--different PID/valves etc?

Also, is your system set up for hp or lp?

Finally, was there a reason you chosse the 24v system?

Thanks--looks awesome!
 
I was considering the Auber 1/4 DIN PID Temperature Controller. #•Model: SYL-43X2

Thought the alarm outputs would be nice and Ramp mode for step-mashing? Did you consider this model when you made your choice?
 
About to start ordering my parts for your Electrical build. Now that you had a few brews under your belt, are there any easy changes you would make--different PID/valves etc?

Honestly, I've been super pleased with it all. At this point, I wouldn't change anything.

Also, is your system set up for hp or lp?

My system is setup for low pressure LP (liquid propane). I'm not sure what you mean by HP (maybe you mean high pressure LP?).

Finally, was there a reason you chosse the 24v system? Thanks--looks awesome!

The valves themselves are cheap and wiring/connectors are too. If ever I need to replace one, it won't hurt my wallet or feelings much. Also I like the safety aspect of the lower voltage, since they are mounted beneath pots of liquid and all.

Have fun with your build!

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Josh
 
I was considering the Auber 1/4 DIN PID Temperature Controller. #•Model: SYL-43X2
Thought the alarm outputs would be nice and Ramp mode for step-mashing? Did you consider this model when you made your choice?

It's my understanding that the SYL-43X2 doesn't support an on/off output mode (only PID style). It would be useful for an electric system, or with gas valves that support a range of "openness". The valves I used are either fully open, or fully closed so while the controller I used is a PID, it supports on/off mode which is required for valves like this. It's much like a fridge (or freezer) works. The compressor is either running, or not.

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Josh
 
Hello Jlandin, Love the Rig. :mug:

I am working on the plans for my own system. I am currently using a BK14 burner, and I have troubles with it icing up my 20lb propane tank. You indicated the you where going to repeat the drilling process again (in post 47). What is the drilling process and what does it do? Is the drilling what alows you to run three of these burners on one tank (post 77) when I have issues with one burner on one tank?

Tanks for any insights you can proved.
 
The Banjo burners are high pressure propane burners, so the orifice holes (in the brass fitting entering the burner) are smaller. To convert these burners to low pressure propane you have to drill the holes in the orifice to be bigger. That's what I did.

I really only ever need to run 2 burners at once when I'm mashing and heating my sparge water at the same time. Even then the Mash is turned down really low so I'm not pulling a lot of propane.

If the tank is freezing up on you, others have recommended putting it in a tub of warm water.

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Josh
 
Awesome rig! Do your pilot valves only work with low pressure propane? I have the same burners but was going to go with an STC valve and a pilot valve for extra safety. Looks like you bypassed having to use a solenoid valve like that of STC or Asco. Can what you did/use be done without having to convert your burners to low pressure?
 
Awesome rig! Do your pilot valves only work with low pressure propane? I have the same burners but was going to go with an STC valve and a pilot valve for extra safety. Looks like you bypassed having to use a solenoid valve like that of STC or Asco. Can what you did/use be done without having to convert your burners to low pressure?

Thanks! Right, the Honeywell VR8200 valves that I used are only good for low pressure propane. They have an integrated safety pilot valve built into them.

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Josh
 
The Banjo burners are high pressure propane burners, so the orifice holes (in the brass fitting entering the burner) are smaller. To convert these burners to low pressure propane you have to drill the holes in the orifice to be bigger. That's what I did.

I really only ever need to run 2 burners at once when I'm mashing and heating my sparge water at the same time. Even then the Mash is turned down really low so I'm not pulling a lot of propane.

If the tank is freezing up on you, others have recommended putting it in a tub of warm water.

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Josh

Thanks for the info. I think I would like to try this. what size hole did you finally drill your orifice to?
 
Thanks for the info. I think I would like to try this. what size hole did you finally drill your orifice to?

Sorry, it seems I lost the paper listing the sizes I tried and where I ended up.

The best thing to do is to drill it one size bigger and try it until you get the flame you want. I think the orifices come with a .055 hole in them, so I'd start at a .060 and move up until you are pleased with the flame. In general you want very little orange wispy tips, and the rest of the flame blue.

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Josh
 
Hi,

I'm in the process of designing and pulling together a BOM for all materials that I will need for my Brutus 10 rig. I've determined that I'm going propane instead of electric and was just wondering if you had any feedback on your propane usage per brew session. I see you're brewing 10 gal batches which I what I am planning on doing also.

Great build, inspired me and the BOM you listed has helped greatly.

Thanks,
G
 
Here are my estimates on fuel burn. Based on a 100,000 BTU burner (this will only affect heating time, not fuel burn to a large dergee)

7.5 gallons strike 60F water to 165F = 1.2lb propane (16 mins)
6.5 gallons sparge water 60F to 170F = 1.1lb propane (14 mins)
12 gallons from 160 - a boil = 1lb propane (12 mins)
60 minute boil with 1.3 gallon boil off/hr = 1.5 pounds propane (60 mins)

This is all based on average burner eff. and the # of BTUs you have to get into the water/wort.

Total fuel burn would be approx. 5 pounds of propane per session, or three sessions per tank.

I have been working on a 1BBL Brutus 10 design, and it would have required 17 pounds of propane per batch! Running it with 11,000W kettles brings power usage to $4 ,or 33kWh per 1BBL session. 11,000W creates the same heating times as running a 187,000 BTU gas burner, it just wont create the CO, or burn an entire tank of propane per session.

5lbs per batch is respectable, even if I am 20% off, you are still looking at 6lbs and almost three brews per tank.
 
Just did my 3rd batch on this system yesterday, and killed the tank toward the very end. I'd say 3 per tank is about right.

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Josh
 
Hey Josh, have an auber PID question. I'm assuming you are using the on/off function. When my relays are connected (under the temperature setpoint) the Auber spits out the full 120V - as expected. But when the relays are not connected, the voltage only drops down to 115V. On/off mode to me means it should go to zero volts when not connected. I haven't hooked it up to the solenoids yet, just running tests with the voltmeter. Any thoughts??
 
Hey Josh, have an auber PID question. I'm assuming you are using the on/off function. When my relays are connected (under the temperature setpoint) the Auber spits out the full 120V - as expected. But when the relays are not connected, the voltage only drops down to 115V. On/off mode to me means it should go to zero volts when not connected. I haven't hooked it up to the solenoids yet, just running tests with the voltmeter. Any thoughts??

Did you configure the PID for the J2 contacts (Alarm 2)?

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Josh
 
I found that part confusing. The settings I currently have are:

inty - P10.0
outy - 4
HY - 3
atdu - 0
psb - 0
rd - 0
corf - 1
 
I found that part confusing. The settings I currently have are:

inty - P10.0
outy - 4
HY - 3
atdu - 0
psb - 0
rd - 0
corf - 1

That looks correct. I set my inty to P100, but P10.0 should not have a negative impact.

Are you sure you have it wired correctly? The ground should be taken directly from the 110V source, and the (only) 110V hot should be going "through" PID terminals 13 and 14. Something doesn't sound right.

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Josh
 
I have the PID wired so that :

1 - hot wired directly from hot bus
2 - neutral from neutral bus
14 - going to valve plug-in
13 - from toggle switch
8, 9, 10 - for RTD probe

And I have the toggle switch wire that way you explained except Im using 120 V, not 24V as I am not using a transformer.

I wanted to send a picture, but I can't seem to do that...
 
I'd simplify the circuit to start with. Rule out the switch wiring (your switch may be different than mine?) by directly wiring the 110V hot from the source to #13.

When the Alarm 2 is triggered by the RTD reading being low, the AL2 light will illuminate and the voltage across #14 and your 110V ground should drop to almost nothing.

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Josh
 
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