Good Balance for an IPA?

Ok... So for a few weeks I have been learning what I can about IPAs (Just got kit on Feb 14).

Here is a recipe that I came up with based on what I learned and read in other recipes.

8lb Light Malt Extract Syrup
1lb Amber Dry Malt Extract
1# Crystal 60 L

2oz Kent Golding (60 min)
1oz Centenial (whole) (60 Min)
1oz Fuggle (60min)
1oz Kent Golding (50 min)
1oz Kent Golding (40min)
1oz Kent Golding (30min)
1oz Nugget (flameout)
1oz Centenial (whole) (dry hop 14 days secondary)

White Labs British Ale (WLP005) - Make a starter with this

Looks like it will get me a 70IBU and 6.8%

I am thinking with the grains and malts at the start it should help to balance this much hops.

Thoughts on this guys?
I know you see a ton of requests a day... so thanks for any time with this one.

Jason

I'm not sure I would add the centennial. Why throw a bright, american, citrusy/florally hop into the mix? Why not drop them and let your IBU's fall back into BJCP range for a English IPA? Remeber, there is a pretty big diff between American and English IPA's.

Grizzlybrew said:

I'm not sure I would add the centennial. Why throw a bright, american, citrusy/florally hop into the mix? Why not drop them and let your IBU's fall back into BJCP range for a English IPA? Remeber, there is a pretty big diff between American and English IPA's.

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+1 on dropping centennial, except for maybe at the start of the boil. Also, IMO the 50 and 40min adds are useless. Maybe move one of the adds to the start and split the other over the last 15mins of the boil. Also, if you add some of the LME at the end of the boil, you can cut down on some of the hops due to better utilization.

Guys,

Thanks a lot for posting. Appreciated.

I know what you are saying about the British IPA vs American. Basically, I got a British IPA kit for my Birthday (along with the brew kit) (my wife bought and picked everything)

So I wanted to rev it up a bit to American IPA levels. So... Will this work? Or am I starting with the wrong boilables/fermentable/yeast?

Assuming that I am going for an american ipa... What changes would you make?

I heard and agree with the moving of the Kent Goldings. I was really not feeling right when I did that... so if I alter it slightly... and with the idea that I am going for an american ipa... What would this be like? I am thinking that there is plenty of bitterness from what I am boiling... and some backend aroma/flavor with the late adds. However, I am not good at this and am just trying my first attempt.

So two basic questions now:

(1) Thoughts on moving the AME to the end of th boil
(2) Thought on this hop schedule for an Am. IPA?

Thanks, really thanks!

8lb Light Malt Extract Syrup
1lb Amber Dry Malt Extract
1# Crystal 60 L

2oz Kent Golding (60 min)
1oz Centenial (whole) (60 Min)
1oz Fuggle (60min)
1oz Kent Golding (15min)
1oz Kent Golding (10)
1oz Kent Golding (5min)
1oz Nugget (flameout)
1oz Centenial (whole) (dry hop 14 days secondary)

White Labs British Ale (WLP005) - Make a starter with this

Honestly, you have a lot of really good hops here but none of them are great for an American IPA. For that, you would want to go with Centennial, Cascade, Amarillo, Simcoe, etc..

How much centennial do you have? You could go all Centennial (like Bells Two Hearted or Founders Centennial IPA) and have a fantastic beer.

As for the Fuggles and Kent Goldings, I would personally recommend going with the recipe as is and planning your next recipe to be more american style. Also, that yeast you have is much more appropriate for a english ipa as well (although I've heard stone uses a highly attenuating english yeast)

1) I'd move half the LME to the end. Doing so will bump your bittering hops from about 14% utilization to about 20%, which with your current schedule would allow you to cut about 1.5oz of goldings and get about the same IBUs.

2) Good schedule, but like aj said, wrong hops for American IPA. Also, I'm assuming you don't already have the centennial hops, so if you're going to buy those, I'd get Fermentis US-05 yeast instead. Good for IPAs and no need for a starter.

I think maybe I am misunderstanding what I am doing.

I am basically trying to take a British IPA (because that was a kit that was like $15 off at austin brewery) and move it in the American direction. Hop it up a little so to speak.

Would you guys say that is more like someone that likes coca-cola and likes cherry and makes a cherry coke --- or someone that likes pickles and ice cream and makes pickle ice cream? Or someone that likes to clean with bleach and also likes to clean with ammonia so they figure to mix them one day?

It seems that altering or mixing can go from delicious to disgusting to dangerous.

By adding american style hopping to the kent/fuggles of a British IPA am I making cherry coke or pickle ice cream?

The kit came with 5 oz of kent goldings. I bough separately 1oz fuggle pellet, 1 oz nugget pellet and 2 oz leaf centenial.

Could some more of you chime in here please?

Even if you are in a rush and just say "keep em separate and make the original recipe for british ipa" or some thing short.

But preferably I would like some insight on british vs american ipas. (aside from what ingredients are used as I researched that)

What do we think about an american/british ipa hybrid?

Feel free to review what I was planning below and give me any tips on what to move/add/remove etc. Here is the currect recipe adjust from tips/more research.

Jason



8lb Light Malt Extract Syrup
1# Crystal 60 L

2oz Kent Golding (60 min)
1oz Centenial (whole) (60 Min)
1oz Fuggle (60min)
1lb Amber Dry Malt Extract (15 min) - To help hop utilization ?
1oz Kent Golding (15min)
1oz Kent Golding (10)
1oz Kent Golding (5min)
1oz Nugget (flameout)
1oz Centenial (whole) (dry hop 14 days secondary)
1lb Amber Dry Malt Extract
White Labs British Ale (WLP005) - Make a starter with this

jalgayer said:

I think maybe I am misunderstanding what I am doing.

I am basically trying to take a British IPA (because that was a kit that was like $15 off at austin brewery) and move it in the American direction. Hop it up a little so to speak.

It seems that altering or mixing can go from delicious to disgusting to dangerous.

By adding american style hopping to the kent/fuggles of a British IPA am I making cherry coke or pickle ice cream?

But preferably I would like some insight on british vs american ipas. (aside from what ingredients are used as I researched that)

What do we think about an american/british ipa hybrid?

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You're coming dangerously close to pickle ice cream!!!:cross:

If you look at BA/BJCP guidelines, you'll see the only real difference between an English and American IPA is the hops (I know, I Know vbase malt too, but you know what I mean) Essentially the difference is flavor/aroma and those are contributed largely by the hops. Simply, what will move you in an American direction is using American hops.

English IPA's use hops of English origin, that tend to have earthy, piney, spicy, "darker" flavors/aromas. Also, English IPA's are still largely brewed the way they were originally created. That is, more hops... early in the boil. IPA's were invented because hops are somewhat a preservative of beer and they wanted more hops in the ale so it could survive the train/ship ride to India without refrigeration, NOT because they were looking for more of that florally, earthy smell and aroma.

American IPA's (for the most part) seem interested in exploiting the spicy/floral/citrus-y aspects of hops, expecially American varities that can push the envelope in these aroma/flavor categories.

You could do a hybrid, but you need to really like those English hops. Some of them become "overexposed" in my opinion when added in large quantities late in the boil.

To really understand, go buy a Samuel Smith's India Pale Ale and then something like Bear Republic Racer 5, Lagunitas Hop Stoopid, or Bell's Two-Hearted (almost any American IPA will do). Pop open the beers while reading through the BA or BJCP style guidelines for both beers and see what I'm talking about.

http://www.beertown.org/education/pdf/BA_Beer_Style_2009.pdf
or
http://www.bjcp.org/docs/2008_stylebook.pdf

That being said, brew what you like! Hope that helps.

I think just moving all the centennial to dry hop and keeping the rest could make cherry coke. You'd basically have an english IPA with a kick of american aroma.

Also, how big of a boil are you doing? 2.5 gallons? Just curious since it's important for your hop utilization.

I think dcp27 has a good idea. I think keeping em' separated 'at all costs' is not necessary, unless you're hung up on how your beer looks on paper. My personal experience is this:

I ordered Midwest's AG Octane IPA last year, noticed it was somewhat boring looking in the malt department and added a lb of biscuit, some wheat malt and a lb of piloncillo sugar (dark brown sugar), because the hops were telling me it was an english IPA (same yeast as you have there too)....as brew day rolled around I was eyeballing an 8 oz sack of cascade in my freezer. I decided to take a page from DFH and continually hop this bastard from 30 minutes on with a mixture of ekg and cascade (ran me to roughly 65-70 IBU's I guess). Finally, dryhopped with cascade and amarillo hops (1oz of each)...guess what? It was absolutely delicious and reminded me a lot of the complex hop character of DFH60 (minus the overly sweet body). I have actually come to prefer mixing English and American hops together in hoppy beers - going 'all american' is to one-dimensional for me. to sum up, I say go for it! I think you'll like it.

ps. the brown sugar helped to dry it out with the english yeast and gave me a thirst quenching FG of 1.008, just right for a sessionable IPA.

dcp27 said:

I think just moving all the centennial to dry hop and keeping the rest could make cherry coke. You'd basically have an english IPA with a kick of american aroma.

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This could work. I just don't think English hops have a pleasant aroma when piled on, but again it's too your taste. I just don't think this would necessarily constitute an American IPA, which is what the OP was going for, I thought.

snailsongs said:

I think dcp27 has a good idea. I think keeping em' separated 'at all costs' is not necessary, unless you're hung up on how your beer looks on paper. My personal experience is this:

[I decided to take a page from DFH and continually hop this bastard from 30 minutes on with a mixture of ekg and cascade (ran me to roughly 65-70 IBU's I guess). Finally, dryhopped with cascade and amarillo hops (1oz of each]

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I think the idea is to not muddle the flavor too much. When I make tacos, I don't throw in a mix of taco seasoning AND a handful of Italian seasoning just because I happen to like both. A little mixing could provide some depth, but just throwing in the kitchen sink results in indeterminable flavors. In your case, the EKG seem to make up roughly 25% (I'm kind of assuming here), making it a predominantly an American IPA with nice goldings undertones.

I'm not a strickler for brewing to style, but there is a reason they exist. And I do think it's good to brew traditional styles to understand them better. The whole point was to say that if you want an "American IPA", you use American hops, not American-sized additions.

Grizzlybrew said:

You're coming dangerously close to pickle ice cream!!!:cross:

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I agree with this. Nothing wrong with centennial hops, or EKG or fuggle hops. But all together might not be what you're looking for. EKG and fuggle are "earthy" (I actually dislike fuggles, because they taste like dirt. Actual dirt). Centennials have a bright citrusy flavor, and it's pretty intense. I think mixing centennial and fuggles would give you a muddy citrus, not something pleasing together.

If you want to mix hops, Willamette goes pretty well with centennial. EKG and fuggle might go well with willamette, too. I don't think American C-hops and English earthy hops will give a palatable result.