Yeast Washing Illustrated

I usually make my starters about 1400ml at a gravity of 1.040. That is plenty for me for a 10-gallon batch.

Bernie Brewer said:

I usually make my starters about 1400ml at a gravity of 1.040. That is plenty for me for a 10-gallon batch.

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ooook

thank you!

delboy said:

I thought it was the opposite, that yeast in the primary yeast cake are the flocculant ones and those still in solution which are in the secondary are less flocculant (that would make sense to me).

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I think this was a type-o the yeast in the secondary are less flocculant than the yeast in the primary. Palmer recomends using the yeast from the primary if you're goin to save it for several generations, but he says that if you're only going to save it for 1 or 2 generations, than the yeast from the secondary is easier to clean.

OK, I tried saving my yeast yesterday (before finding this thread). I had searched for recycling yeast first, and I saw someone saying to stir up the stuff on the bottom. This is a batch of apple cider F.Y.I. So when I racked my cider to the secondary, I left a 1/2" of cider on top of the yeast cake (pitch looks like peanut butter) I stirred this 'peanut butter' until none was left stuck to the bottom, then I poured it all into a sanitized qt. mason jar. It is settling out in my fridge nicely, but I'm worried about that peanut butter stuff that I purposely added.

I figured that since this was cider and there is no grains in the bottom, that what ever that peanut butter stuff was will just be nutrient for the yeast starter. Am I right on this or (ok....here it is....noob in action...) 'DID I RUIN MY YEAST STARTER'?

hellfireSam said:

ooook

thank you!

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You can also get more information on yeast pitching rates over at www.mrmalty.com . He has a pitching rate calculator, etc... here is one page in particular that I find useful
http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php

Concerning washing the yeast...

I notice that when you put the yeast in the fridge, that it seperates into basically three layers. Can you tell me if this is correct...

1. Top layer - this is basically just left over beer - you can pour it off before making the starter or get rid of it. Its not needed.

2. Middle layer - this is the yeast that you want to save ??

3. Bottom Layer - this is gunky stuff to throw away and not use ??

Hmmm, I only get two layers. Check out the last pic in post #3. That's what my yeast looks like after a couple days in the fridge. I just pour off most of the top layer and shake the rest up to get everything back into suspension, and then pitch.

If I do wash and save my yeast, I should only re-use this yeast for a recipe that calls specifically for the yeast strain that it originally came from, correct? If this is correct, then that leads me to believe after one has experimented and come up with some "reliable" beers they like, this would really be the ticket....

yes, it's going to be the same yeast strain

Bernie Brewer said:

You're right, that was a bit confusing, but you assumed correctly. Thanks for clearing that up.

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fixed this in wiki as well

Someone pointed me to this fantastic thread and I have now harvested two yeast cakes, putting each into five sterilized 12-oz bottles and capping them. Each bottle had about 6 oz of settled yeast cake.

I was actually able to put one of them to use. I don't know if I did it right, but I put the refrigerated bottle in lukewarm water to help activate the yeast. Then I poured off the watery top layer and shook out the yeast into my primary. The fermentation went like gangbusters! Instead of one bubble in the airlock, sometimes three were making their way up in succession. I've never had a fermentation go that fast.

I assume that's due to the large amount of yeast I started with. Does that mean I should split my next yeast cake into ten bottles instead of five?

Another question that comes to mind is how many generations is yeast usually good for? Should I harvest the yeast cake from this rapidly fermenting batch? Or just use the rest of my second-generation bottles when the appropriate batch calls for them and start anew after that?

Thanks for any insights you can provide.

explosivebeer said:

I assume that's due to the large amount of yeast I started with. Does that mean I should split my next yeast cake into ten bottles instead of five?

Another question that comes to mind is how many generations is yeast usually good for? Should I harvest the yeast cake from this rapidly fermenting batch? Or just use the rest of my second-generation bottles when the appropriate batch calls for them and start anew after that?

Thanks for any insights you can provide.

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As to splitting it into more bottles, your whole point of doing this is to get a good strong fast fermentation, and if you are getting five more batches out of the previous batch, you are getting a good return on your money, so why bother?

As to how many generations, that is a common topic of discussion. There are those that will only go five generations, there are those that say you can go to ten or more generations, if you are using good sanitation techniques. The biggest thing to remember is, if the you know the yeast well, and know how it should ferment, and it is still doing that, then it is still good. If you are getting odd flavors, or it is taking forever to kick off, etc, then you have probably had a mutation happen, and you should start with a fresh batch.

rabidgerbil said:

As to splitting it into more bottles, your whole point of doing this is to get a good strong fast fermentation, and if you are getting five more batches out of the previous batch, you are getting a good return on your money, so why bother?

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Logistically, I guess I don't really want my fridge filled with ten bottles of every yeast strain I try. I was just curious if there was a minimum amount of yeast you'd want in each container. As it is, I think I'll have more than enough with my current process.

If I find some smaller, stackable containers I might split my batches up a bit more but for now I'm happy to have seemingly learned how to wash and store yeast!

Thanks again to the OP.

explosivebeer said:

Logistically, I guess I don't really want my fridge filled with ten bottles of every yeast strain I try.

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I try to do just that. Hell, I've got strains that I haven't brewed with yet.

But I'm quickly finding it to be a bit pointless since I've used English Ale in a ratio of 5:1.

I keep my yeast banked in baby food jars and just line them up in the freezer door. Each jar is enough to grow a starter and replace the jar. That said, I've got a few dozen strains in there and it doesn't take up too much space though using vials in a rack could dramatically reduce the amount of space that collection is using up.

explosivebeer said:

Logistically, I guess I don't really want my fridge filled with ten bottles of every yeast strain I try. I was just curious if there was a minimum amount of yeast you'd want in each container. As it is, I think I'll have more than enough with my current process.

If I find some smaller, stackable containers I might split my batches up a bit more but for now I'm happy to have seemingly learned how to wash and store yeast!

Thanks again to the OP.

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I use half pint canning jars, they hold enough to make the next starter with, so that is perfect, and they stack pretty nicely, and are easy to label with some freezer tape.

Sweet thread!
Thanks for sharing.

Thanks Bernie, I gave it a shot today. I had just racked 10G of a Fat Tire clone with the Wyeast VSS Fat Tire yeast.

I had to much yeast in that fermenter I was able to dump about 2 quarts of sterilized water into it and come up with this gallon of mostly suspended yeast & left almost all the trub behind.



I had only boiled 5 mason jars, or I am sure I could have easily filled 7 or 8 jars. But chances are I wont even use the 5 before it's too old.



I used the Fermtech Mini Auto Siphon, it worked great I was able to keep the tip right in the middle of the suspended yeast and not disturb the trub at all.

All labeled and put in the fridge. Now just waiting for them to clear to see how much I ended up with.

SuperiorBrew said:

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That's just a beautiful picture!

cowgo said:

That's just a beautiful picture!

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Indeed!!!!!!!!!

SuperiorBrew said:

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So just to check - when you come to use these yeasties, the stuff you want is on the bottom, right? And you'd get rid of the liquid at the top?

Danek said:

So just to check - when you come to use these yeasties, the stuff you want is on the bottom, right? And you'd get rid of the liquid at the top?

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Correct. I leave a little liquid in there, and give the whole thing a good shake to get the yeast back in suspension. It pours out easier that way.

Ok, just a couple of quick questions.... I have wanted to try this for a while to save money on batches, and Im brewing this weekend, so in about a week or so Im giving it a go...

First question. After you pour your cooled/boiled water into your primary and shake it up do you pour it into your large jar, or siphon it in?

After it settles a little bit in the large jar, do you pour it into the smaller jars/or siphon it... I think it said to try and leave the bottom layer without disturbing it,,,,,I guess that is what makes me think you are going to siphon it...

Oh, one last thing....I end up with a LOT of Trub in the bottom of my primary....I was wondering if that is ok to still wash yeast from....I strain from kettle to primary through a stainless strainer, but there is still an inch or so of trub after a week.... I have heard of guys whirlpooling their wort in the brew kettle before siphoning it into the primary, would this help the trub issue, and make it easier to wash the yeast?

Thanks in advance for the help...

splat said:

Ok, just a couple of quick questions.... I have wanted to try this for a while to save money on batches, and Im brewing this weekend, so in about a week or so Im giving it a go...

First question. After you pour your cooled/boiled water into your primary and shake it up do you pour it into your large jar, or siphon it in?

After it settles a little bit in the large jar, do you pour it into the smaller jars/or siphon it... I think it said to try and leave the bottom layer without disturbing it,,,,,I guess that is what makes me think you are going to siphon it...

Oh, one last thing....I end up with a LOT of Trub in the bottom of my primary....I was wondering if that is ok to still wash yeast from....I strain from kettle to primary through a stainless strainer, but there is still an inch or so of trub after a week.... I have heard of guys whirlpooling their wort in the brew kettle before siphoning it into the primary, would this help the trub issue, and make it easier to wash the yeast?

Thanks in advance for the help...

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I just did my first one and I poured....It's too hard to start and stop a siphon on a dime. If you go slow, all the junk stays behind.

I used that mini auto siphon and just lined the jars up right next to each other. At first I pinched the hose to stop the siphon but then just decided to move the hose from one to the next with out stopping the flow, that worked fine too.
I had so much suspended yeast I could have poured and not even got close to the trub. (It was fron a 10 g batch)

I have some serious noob questions. If I want to use my yeast cake from my secondary to immediately brew my next batch of beer, can I pour the yeast cake back into my primary? If I can, should I do that before or after I pour in my wort? I looked through this thread and didn't find anything. Also, how many times can you use the same strain of yeast while using the yeast cake method? (I am using extract brewing). Thanks.

GlassblowersBrew said:

I have some serious noob questions. If I want to use my yeast cake from my secondary to immediately brew my next batch of beer, can I pour the yeast cake back into my primary? If I can, should I do that before or after I pour in my wort? I looked through this thread and didn't find anything. Also, how many times can you use the same strain of yeast while using the yeast cake method? (I am using extract brewing). Thanks.

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It was on the first page, dude!

Bernie Brewer said:

Richard, if you are going to repitch onto a yeast cake, don't add the water, just put the wort on top of the cake

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Bernie brewer,
Thanks for your response. My question still is, can I pour the yeast cake back to the primary so I don't have to do my primary ferment in my secondary carboy. I want to ferment in the 6.5 gallon, not the 5. Basically, can I add my oxygenated water and wort to my primary and pitch in the yeast cake as if it were a liquid yeast tube? Does this question make sense?

New question: Can I wash my yeast cake with sterile water, as per the earlier instructions, and pitch directly into my new brew, forgoing the storage? I don't see a need to store yeast if I plan on brewing and bottling the same evening. I'm stuck on ales, so I plan on using the same yeast for a while. I brew evry three weeks. One week in primary, two in secondary, then bottle and brew on the last day of the third week. My thursday night ritual.

Thanks for your help.

I don't see the need to go the trouble of washing the yeast if you are going to use it right away. I would find a way to get the yeast cake into the primary right from the secondary. Maybe boil and cool just a pint of water, swirl it gently in the yeast cake and then pitch into your primary It's worth a try anyway. Are you using dry yeast? If so I would just use a new packet every time-it's certainly cheap enough. Good luck.

I washed my first yeasties, this weekend. I actually boiled four pint jars, one half gallon jar, and one gallon jar. I double washed it too, just to make sure. I siphoned off my beer, and then just stirred the whole yeast cake, to get it a bit more fluid. I then filled the gallon jar about half way, and topped it off with sterile water, shook it, and let it settle out for a while. I then filled the half gallon jar, about half way, and topped it off with sterile water, shook it up and let it settle out. Then the last step of filling the pint jars half way and topping off with more water.

I was having trouble getting it to siphon, so I just used my turkey baster to transfer the yeasties from jar to jar. Yeah, I know it was dumb on my part, but I got it done, and I think it turned out very nice. I need to get something else setup to transfer the yeast from jar to jar.

Now that I have done it once, I am going to get a bunch of pint jars sterilized and ready to go. I found a whole case (12) of brand new jars in my cellar, along with 16 others. I think I'll be set for my yeast, down the road.

Bombo80 said:

I was having trouble getting it to siphon, so I just used my turkey baster to transfer the yeasties from jar to jar. Yeah, I know it was dumb on my part, but I got it done, and I think it turned out very nice. I need to get something else setup to transfer the yeast from jar to jar.

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You can just dump right from jar to jar, that is how most do it, I tried the Mini Auto Siphon and dumping from jar to jar and prefered the Mini.

I dumped from the primary into the gallon jar. I guess I was just trying to stay away from all the top layer of wort, and actually get down into the upper level of the yeast. Pouring into the half gallon jar might be OK. I'll try that next week. I might even get a large syringe to suck them out. I have a SS one that I use for injecting brine into meat for smoking. I bet that would work, and being SS, I could put it in when I'm sterilizing the jars too.

Thanks

I just washed some yeast today. Can anyone tell me roughly how long I have to use it until it's no longer viable? Also, I assume you simply refrigerate these at a standard temperature, not freeze them.

I think Bernie has used some up to about a year, but he said it took a while to get his starter going on that one.
If you want to freeze them and keep for years then you need to add glycerine and do it like descrigbed here: Guide to Making a Frozen Yeast Bank

Bernie Brewer said:

It seems to me that there have been quite a few inquiries about yeast washing lately, so since I was racking/washing today, I grabbed the digital camera to illustrate one way of doing it. I have had great success with this method, so I thought I'd share. Here goes:


The only materials that I use besides regular racking equipment is this:
4 pint sized Mason jars w/lids
1 larger container for extra water
1 kitchen tongs
My old boiling kettle from my original brewing kit.

I put all the stuff- lids and all- in the pot and add enough water to cover it:

Boil it for about 20 minutes or so. This will sanitize everything as well as get rid of any oxygen in the water, so the yeasties will take a nice long nap. Then remove the jars and lids with the tongs, keeping them full of water.

Cover all the jars and let cool in the fridge for several hours, or maybe overnight.

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Very nice illustration on how to wash yeast. I don't go as far as you are but I usually am re pitching with in 2 weeks of the last brew. I also make a starter from the washed yeast. I'll keep washing the 5 different yeast strains and brewing beer till about the end of April. Next year I'll start with new Wyeast Activator packs and start all over again.

I just washed a batch of Rocky Mountain Lager yeast. This is my second batch I washed. It worked really nice. I always make sure I have enough water though. I add a gallon into the primary and pour it off, back into the gallon jar. Let it settle and gently dump into my half gallon jar, let that settle, then pour into pint jars. I actually filled two, at first, then added a bit more water, mixed that up, the poured off into the last two pint jars. Works great, and it's very easy.

I might look into the small vials and glycerine, to freeze them,for long term storage.

thanks for the great and simple instructions. i just washed my first yeast cake a nice addition to my other yeast culturing skills.

SuperiorBrew said:

I think Bernie has used some up to about a year, but he said it took a while to get his starter going on that one.
If you want to freeze them and keep for years then you need to add glycerine and do it like descrigbed here: Guide to Making a Frozen Yeast Bank

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Even though it's been over half a week since I washed my yeast there's been something gnawing at the back of my mind. I couldn't find mason jars so I cleaned out a couple of salsa jars. Bear in mind I scrubbed them hard with hot water and bleach dish soap. Then I boiled some water and put it in side, to the brim to let it sterilize them.

Now before I get any responses of "what the heck were you thinking?!" I want to add that I'm okay if this doesn't work out right. I consider it practice if nothing else. But what I would like to know is if, despite cleaning and sanitizing the jars very thoroughly, will that slight salsa aroma ruin the yeast? I'm concerned that if I did use the yeast, assuming the starter works, that it'll leave salsa off-flavors in the beer. Am I worrying over nothing?

EinGutesBier said:

Even though it's been over half a week since I washed my yeast there's been something gnawing at the back of my mind. I couldn't find mason jars so I cleaned out a couple of salsa jars. Bear in mind I scrubbed them hard with hot water and bleach dish soap. Then I boiled some water and put it in side, to the brim to let it sterilize them.

Now before I get any responses of "what the heck were you thinking?!" I want to add that I'm okay if this doesn't work out right. I consider it practice if nothing else. But what I would like to know is if, despite cleaning and sanitizing the jars very thoroughly, will that slight salsa aroma ruin the yeast? I'm concerned that if I did use the yeast, assuming the starter works, that it'll leave salsa off-flavors in the beer. Am I worrying over nothing?

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I'm no expert....and I don't want to derail you expierementation (which I admire), but I'm going to say if it was me, I wouldn't use salsa jars....if there is a smell, there are remants IMO....Now if it works...W O O T Salsa Beer!

But I'd head down to walmart and spend the $10-$15 on 1/2 pint mason jars (or whatever size you desire) to be sure that you are ok...You can use them for other stuff as well.

Warped04 said:

I'm no expert....and I don't want to derail you expierementation (which I admire), but I'm going to say if it was me, I wouldn't use salsa jars....if there is a smell, there are remants IMO....Now if it works...W O O T Salsa Beer!

But I'd head down to walmart and spend the $10-$15 on 1/2 pint mason jars (or whatever size you desire) to be sure that you are ok...You can use them for other stuff as well.

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Yeah, I'll have to invest in some jars from Walmart. The funny thing is, the jars themselves didn't smell of salsa...and I made sure there was zero residue, so that's not an issue. However, the plasti-rubber linings on the lids are what smelled of salsa. I figure if I make a starter out of them, the yeast will sort of "burn off" any remainder of the salsa odor.