What's the trick for whirlpool...I can't seem to get it!

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JMan551

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I do not have a pump, but have always attempted a spin driven whirlpool. I have NEVER come even CLOSE to having a nice pyramid of trub. Every time i've drained i've ended up with a very liquidy layer of crap on the bottom that just shoots up the cane or out the valve. I've whirled fast, whirled slow, tried draining while spinning, tried draining after 15mins, and tried draining after 30+mins.

What's the trick? I would like to get a pump and a return so that I may whirl pool for late additions, keep the wort flowing across my IC, and finally to make my trub pile so that I may extract the optimum amount of wort. But it almost all seems for not if I can't ever get a pyramid.

JER
 
Try whirfloc, and let it sit for a half hour or more. I got so frustrated, I dont even bother anymore. Put a fine mesh bag in my bucket, and pour everything in. the bag filters everything out.
 
Lol yup sorry to say I gave up on whirl pooling too, started using a racking cane. I also use two paint strainers over the end of the cane.
 
Use a kettle fining like Irish Moss and Whirlflock and let things rest for around 20 minutes after whirlpooling. That will give things time to settle in to the center of the kettle.
 
Just be aware that letting things "rest" in the kettle post boil will increase isomerization (bitterness) from flame out/late addition aroma hops. It's always best to chill asap and potentially pump through a filter/strainer into the FV. It won't kill a beer by any means, but brewers looking for a specific IBU result should drop bitter wort below 180F asap.
 
I have the same problem as well. I chill, pull out my IC, and then stir the **** out of it before putting the lid on and letting it rest for ~30min. Still don't get that nice cone that I've seen.

I think my next move might be towards a hop spider, so I can keep the hop bits out at least.

I'm using a 15 gallon Blichmann Boilermaker if that makes any difference. Would love some advice.
 
One easy thing to do is transfer your cooled wort to a bucket for settling. Let the bucket sit for 30-60 minutes. The trub and hops should settle significantly. Then rack to your fermentation vessel, oxygenate and add yeast. I've almost given up on filter the trub from my wort. I just run the cooled wort from my kettle and stop running when it gets to the bottom of the kettle full of trub. Also, I use a hops spider, so I don't have a problem with hop matter. The trub that gets into the fermentor hasn't hurt the flavor of any of my beers, so I don't worry about. It just makes rinsing and saving yeast more difficult.
 
I just use Irish moss, whirlpool for about 5 minutes, and then use a racking cane with a strainer on the end. Almost no trub or hop material makes it into the fermenter, I don't even have to do a cold break anymore.
 
You are not trying to whirlpool with an IC or something else that would block/change flow in the kettle are you? I use a pump to recirc back to the kettle while cooling and this is the normal trub and hop pile I get after about 15 minutes and a whirlfloc tablet.



I'm not sure why whirlpooling wouldn't work for you unless you aren't getting a good hot break and not using irish moss/whirlfloc, or something is obstructing the directional flow of the wort.
 
I can't say whether or not i'm getting a good hot break...I don't see any difference over the past couple of years. I do use a whirlfloc tab at between 10 and 15 mins, and unless specifically attempting a whirlpool addition I immediately turn on the water through the IC. I'll try and keep some circulation going on at first to keep the wort flowing over the coils, but let it sit after awhile. I believe I have done both whirlpool with and without the IC in the wort. Again, I do not have a pump yet, so this is all hand twirlled.

Do you all whirlpool fast? Or take it slowwww? Does there need to be a physical whirl going on, or a barely noticible current? Without applying any fluid dynamics (because I dropped out of engineering school before that class), it would appear that I would need to maintain a whirlpool for the trub to settle in the middle. If I whirl and then let it stop, I feel like the trub would just settle wherever.

JER
 
My opinion is if you don't get the perfect little cone, so what? With even a mediocre whirlpool, you put the siphon in one corner and let it flow. The amount of trub you will ultimately get is substantially less vs. not whirlpooling.
 
That's just it...when I siphon down, the last few inches seem to just be a sludgy mixed up mess. I'm not really seeing solid matter resting on the bottom. It's almost milky, and tends to sit on the bottom in a inch or two layer across the whole bottom. This leaves me with either sucking up a good amount of trub or leaving a desirable amount left in the kettle.

I'm still working out the process on my equipment...I need to adjust to end up with more wort, fine tune my boil (to account for a consistent boil off), figure out how to raise efficiency, etc...and part of that figuring out how others get that nice trub pyramid!

JER
 
Measure how much that trubby mess is. Then adjust to get that much more wort. Then, when you're done siphoning the wort, dump the trubby mess out into a mason jar or whatever and throw it in the fridge. All the crap will settle out, and you can use the good stuff for starter wort. That way youre not wasting the stuff you worked hard on all day.
 
I gave up on whirlpooling with a spoon too. I don't have a pump setup so I can't comment on that technique. I have found that just letting my kettle sit for 1/2 hr works just as well
 
On my last batch, I stirred and stirred until i had a pretty good vortex going... kept that up until it felt like my arm was going to fall off. Let it sit for 30 mintues covered and put the siphon in one corner and let it go. It sucked up what was in that corner but I left it alone. This is what was I got in the carboy. This is even after a week in primary. Now Im not sure about the 1-2 inches of stuff at the bottom of the kettle. I had a mound built up but the sides were noticeably clearer. I'm brewing a large beer tomorrow and will try documenting it better. Note: I also used hop sacks so it helped minimize hop residue.

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Jman,

I created an account just to answer your question. For years I struggled with the same exact problem and last Friday I did my 1st batch with my new pump from Bobby at Brewhardware and the immersion chiller I have from More Beer that has the re-circulation arm. Low and behold I now have the perfect trub cone you are looking for. As a side note I use Irish Moss.

Andy
 
Well, I have to give you mad thanks for going through the trouble! I'm extremely pleased to hear about your results. Your set up is exactly where my goal is set. I'm glad to hear it works. How fast do you whirl? For how long? How long do you let it rest after whirlpool before draining?

Thanks again!
Jer
 
I ferment in a bucket and use this paint strainer given to me by the pro that painted my house. I'm sure you can find some at a paint supply shop. It's made to fit the 5 or 6.5 gal buckets

PaintStrainer.jpg


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Well, I have to give you mad thanks for going through the trouble! I'm extremely pleased to hear about your results. Your set up is exactly where my goal is set. I'm glad to hear it works. How fast do you whirl? For how long? How long do you let it rest after whirlpool before draining?

Thanks again!
Jer

Not a problem and no trouble, I should have done it sooner just never had anything I felt I could add until now.

I have the valve on my outlet of the chugger pump full open and run the pump for the last 15 minutes of my boil to sanitize then the entire cooling process. From the time I shut the pump off to the time I was ready to fill the fermenter was probably about 20 minutes. Since I used my typical calculation to figure out how much I was going to have to leave behind I easily had an extra gallon due to the perfect cone left behind.

I ended up saving the extra wort to can for yeast starters. I was able to drain my brew pot until it stopped flowing and even tipped it and got another quart of crystal clear wort, definitely very happy with it.

Andy
 
I've never gotten a cone but I still whirlpool and let it sit for 30min. I use a big whisk with a ball inside for stirring. I figure if nothing else I am at least oxygenating the wort.
 
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