Co2 Leak in Keezer

So I just got most of the keezer build done, attached the two secondary regulators and a 3 way manifold. I've read many stories of people losing tanks over poorly connected lines. So Last night I brought the entire line system up to 30 psi and left it there, within 2 min I lost 1 psi. I tightened up some screws and reset the pressure, and then shutoff co2. Again, I lose a little psi. I tried spraying with some starsan around all connections and didn't see anything right away.

I decided to leave the system set over night and went in to look and its sitting at 18psi now. I don't know how much of that is loss vs just the keezer temperatures lowering the guages? It seems to me kind of strange that it would drop like it did at the rate and 8 hours later in the morning find it to be holding?

One thing I wondered if anyone has tried. What if you put some star san (very little amount) inside the tubing, turned on the pressure. Would the starsan come out of any possible cracks or spots that need refitting?

The volume of gas will get more dense when chilled so the pressure in the tank looks to be less than what it actually is. If you take the tank out again the pressure will rise to the original position.

So I found the source to be my two secondary regulators. I submerged and found no bubbles. I sprayed Down starsan on the rest and nothing showing. I have it to 30psi and will check back in an hour. However when I turn the co2 back on after 5min and the secondaries moved.

I tightened all the lines, and only have the tank > primary regulator > line > secondary regulators (2 in line). I checked this morning and over night I lost 5 psi. I cannot find any leaks and if you think about the loss rate, its probably not enough to bubble anything. I'm wondering if I need to exchange my secondary regulator.

Anyone had this issue?

Where did you buy the manifold from? My buddy has a three way manifold he got and it was notoriously bad. Spent a few hours with him going over all his connections and testing them and ultimately his manifold was messed up. But you may be luckier then him. I'd do another once over of all connections systematically to rule out everyone until you find the problem. With his you could hear a low hum when you put your ear up to them manifold. Also does your set up need a hard plastic washer or does it use an o ring at the tank connection?

Also in the past I have inadvertently bumped my pressure gauge and not realized it which resulted in slow leaks.

Well right now there is no manifold hooked up. I just have the primary on my tank directly hooked up to the two inline secondary regulators, and nothing hooked up to their lines. They have ball valve shutoffs on each of the secondary regulators and they are closed. I submerged that portion of the regulator to see what they did, and didn't see a single bubble. I also put my ear up to everything and nothing.

And I bought everything from Kegconnection.

5 psi where? On the low or high pressure side? 5psi on the high side is nothing. If on the low side, some people have reported that their regulators wander from where they set them if they are cold.

It's on the low side. So on the secondaries. The secondaries are the only thing hooked up once the system pressure is set and I turn the cut off valve on the primary.

And I left them out of the keezer last night and lost 5 psi. Came back at lunch and it was down 3 more psi.

I'm going to take apart the secondary rig (not the secondary regulators themsleves), but all the pipe fittings and reapply the teflon tape and see what happens. Keg connection has been responsive and said they will replace it if I want, but I suggested to save shipping for me to see what this does.

Are kegs hooked up? Do you completely counter clockwise turn yur gauge knobs out so there's no pressure and then turn until you get your desired pressure often times with full kegs I'll have to set the pressure then re adjust it alitalia while longer just because the internal pressure of the keg will push back. Post a pic of your set up if possible

Just checking, did you open your CO2 tank ALL the way open, then a hair more? I lost all my CO2. The gas place told me that there is a 'top seal' you need to snug up by opening the tank all the way. Been fine ever since.

Here is my diagnostic setup:



The secondaries use to be hooked together by a pipe fitting. I wanted to redo the teflon tape fitting on what I could so I separated the units and got the idea to try them out individually to see if possibly one or the other had a problem with the actually regulator seal.

A little bit about the setup: I have the tank hooked up to a primary regulator, which immediately after that has a cut-off valve. From that valve the line is run into the secondary regulator and all ball valves on that are off. I then set the pressure to 30 PSI on the primary and open the cut-off valve to equalize the pressure to the secondary, which is set open all the way so it reflects nearly the same PSI. Once that is complete I then close the valve on the primary and let things sit. Slowly, and within the first minute I can see it is losing pressure.

I have gone as far to try both secondaries separately only to find they both do the exact same thing. When they did that, it led me to believe the cable to the secondaries maybe had a leak or a fitting not tight enough. So I removed the original cable, installed a different one tightened fittings, submerged the line in water up to, but not getting to the regulators and turned the gas on to see any bubbles. To my dismay, nothing! I watched it for 10 minutes around the fittings and nothing.

I'm at a complete loss. How could both secondary regulators when tested one by one give the same results? If that is true it is unlikely there is an issue with the secondaries. But if I changed out the line and confirmed no bubbles when submerging, there can't seem to be a problem with the co2 line. If there isn't a problem with the line maybe there was a problem with the cut-off valve releasing co2. So I put the co2 tank in the water tub filled up to cover the cut-off valve, but once again being mindful of the primary regulator and sat and watched. Once again, nothing... no bubbles, no nothing.

It seems like the rate of loss is not constant? How can I lose nearly 1 PSI within the first five minutes, but over an 8 hour span only lose 10 PSI? Based on the original math I should be out of gas within 150 minutes, meaning coming back in the morning should should 0, but it didn't.

EDIT:

I know how to eliminate the chance of an issue being at the tank/cutoff valve. I'm going to attach my spunding valve to the setup, set it to hold 30psi, and let it sit. If the pressure remains the same. We can eliminate any possible issue with the primary/tank area.

Are there pressure relief valves on the secondary regulators,try reseating them. Pull them out and let them snap back in. You can also try hooking up lines with ball or pin locks gas connectors and leave the cut off valves open and retesting. Did you completely counterclockwise turn the flat head screwdriver regulator gas flow control to all the way. When there all the way out the gas flow is stopped in the regulator then right turn until your desired pressure. I have had faulty primary regulators in the past but that was from handling them ruff and bumping the side on stuff which caused a slow leak.

I did pull the secondary relief valves like you said a few times before no change.

So interesting turn in events.

After setting the spunding valve that I have to 25 PSI just hooked up to the primary. I came back 5 minutes later to discover it also lost about 1 PSI!!!

Now of course there is a slight chance there is a leak in my spunding valve assembly, but I think this points the problem to the primary regulator and tank.

But with that thinking, how could that be if I have the cut-off valve closed when doing the test. That should discount the primary and tank out of the equation. I haven't tried completely turning the primary all the way counter clockwise like you said and then trying to set my pressure. Is it possible to unscrew too much? or will it stop itself?

What you are describing sounds like normal operation to me. If I turn the screw on my regulator until the low side reads 30psi then back it off so no high pressure gas is entering the regulator, the low pressure gauge will immediately start to drop. The time it takes for this to happen is about 15 seconds. The one way valves on all my lines keep the pressure of the kegs from feeding back into the regulator so the regulator immediately vents whatever pressure is in the regulator and manifold.

My guess is that the low pressure regulator needs high pressure CO2 from the tank to maintain its seals, so once you cut it off from the high pressure side, it gradually leaks. If you don't have one way valves and are hooked to a keg or have a long gas line like I see in the picture this venting will happen slowly since you have a lot more gas volume. If you have all the valves closed, it will happen much quicker.

My regulator has done this since day one and I am on my 6 and 7th keg with the same 5lb CO2 tank.

Further based on your setup it seems you are feeding gas from a regulator to two more regulators. Are you even sure this works or is advisable? I may be wrong but my understanding is that if you want several different pressures, you hook them all up to the high pressure straight from the tank, not to another regulator's low pressure output. Or in other words, the regulators are supposed to be in parallel all getting 5-700psi CO2 and stepping it down. They should not be getting fed 30psi and stepping it down to serving pressure.

See here: http://www.******.com/co2-beer-regulator-three-gauge-dual-body.html

Unless this is a common practice, I am pretty sure that is why you are losing pressure.

Guess I don't understand with the setup.

I've read of people keeping their primary on their tank, and hooking it up to secondary regulators to feed different pressures. I read this in a post somewhere on here.

I may just hook everything up and see what happens if this leak is real or like you said has osmething to do with the regulator seals.

Doing some more reading it does seem they sell secondary regulators so your setup may be fine in that regard. Your regulators may simply be faulty.

I'm having a similar issue with my setup:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/secondary-regulator-issues-308635/

However, my primary holds solid at 21 psi. I think in both cases there is a leak somewhere. Just have to find it.