Going all natural (gas that is)

Ok, I've got the go ahead from SWMBO to convert my operation to natural gas.

Currently, I have a B3 sculpture with propane burners--my brew room has a gas line already, so it'll be a simple conversion of changing out the burners and running the line.

Question is one regarding CO production--

I'm going for 200,000 BTU burners, and this thing is inside. I don't want to fork over the change for a hood vent, but I might have to.

Anyone else brew AG indoors with natural gas, and if so, what kind of ventilation do you use??


I do have an outside door to the room, and I was thinking of putting in a CO meter, open the door, turn on a fan for cross ventilation, and monitor CO levels, but this might prove woefully inadequate.

Thoughts and ideas are appreciated!!

Seriously, I'm going all in-doors.

Perfect all weather brewing, better temp control, no environment to f up the brew, no lifting or moving crap outside. . .

I'm also going to start pumping to the fermenter.

But first, I have to work out the logistics of the gas and CO issue.

OK. Going with my original thought then.


Although, I'm going to make sure the rest of the family isn't home when I first try all this. That way, I"m the only one to get blown up or gassed. :cross:

I had considered it, but I decided it's just easier to open the garage door and vent it outside.

Once we get settled into our "permanent" house (SWMBO wants to buy a new one this year, so I'm hesitant to do much to this one) I'll plumb the garage for natural gas and get the appropriate burners. It's cheaper, but ignoring that it's a lot more convenient. We have a natural gas grill in our back yard and it's got to be one of the greatest inventions ever.

Even then, I think I'll just open the garage door to brew. I've brewed when it's REALLY cold and left the door shut, and I survived ok. Not saying that's a good idea, though.


BTW, a friend of mine used to brew in his basement with a turkey fryer. He just opened one of the basement windows and stuck a fan in it. I'm not sure if that was kosher, but we're both still alive.

Biermann, I think you're going about it right. With the ventilation and meter you should be fine. It's the lack of O2 in the air that gets to be a problem.

Well, I don't house my stuff in a garage anymore. Our house has an outroom that I've designated a "brewery." It has a door exiting to the outside to a deck (where I currently brew). My brew day consists of lugging my sculpture, kettles, fermenter, chillers, hoses, pump, water, and crap outside. I spend at least an hour in setup and another hour in tear down. Plus, on days like today (8 degrees Fahrenheit with windchill), I can't brew.

In this outroom, there is a nice, capped, gasline run right to the area where I store my sculpture. All I would have to do is uncap it, run a flex line, change out the burners, open the door, turn on a fan and go. . . but I don't want to hurt myself or anyone else in the process.

I'm thinking I'll just get the CO detector, plug it in, and go with it. If the levels climb too high, I'll just invest in a hood vent, and get a pro to install it. It'll still be worth it in the long run.

I don't see why there would be a prob with it. Get the CO detector and ventilate well and you should be fine.

Hell as it is in this state we have to have CO detectors within 15 feet of sleeping areas as of January 1 anyway, so another sure won't hurt.

It sounds like you're doing this in a large mudroom or enclosed porch right?

Ize

yeah, its more of a big utility room. Its an indoors space, albeit largely unfinished.

Pics below:






The room is quite large--these pictures don't do it justice, as they just cover portions of the room. There is a nice, capped gas line over by the utility sink (that is live--I've checked).

Well, I took a risk and brewed inside yesterday (at 6 degrees outside with 4 inches of snow, it was easy decision). I brewed an extract beer for time constraint reasons, and did a full wort boil utilizing just the boil kettle of my sculpture). I moved my combustible gas/CO detector to the brew room, put it more or less at the level of my brew system, within 5 feet of the burner, and began brewing.

I left the door open to the outside for ventilation--

Well, given that I ran one of my burners (170,000 BTU's) almost constantly (with a 60 min boil), the detector never showed a bump in the CO level in the room, and there was NO detectable combustible gas. Other CO detectors in the house likewise showed no bump in their levels.

This little trial seems to show that just having the door in the room opened to the outside provided ample ventilation, and it seems this project is more than feasible.

Now the next question before I go all Natural gas--

My current burners are 170,000 BTU propane. I was looking at Natural gas burners-- my choices are 100,000 BTU or 200,000 BTU-- problem is price diference. The 200,000 BTU burners run around $70 a piece, whereas the 100,000 BTU ones are about $40.

So, would it be that big of a drop to go to 100,000 BTU's for my 10-12 gallon system??

from cool water to boil takes me about 40 minutes with a 120,000(?) BTU burner. Bigger is better.

I would pony up for the bigger ones. You won't regret it in the long run.

That's kind of what I thought. . .

My 170,000's take about 25 minutes to reach a boil.


I also considered going 200,000 on the boil kettle alone, and 100,000 on the mash tun and liquor tun.

although seeing as how I've not spared any expense thus far on the brew system, why start now?

Biermann said:

although seeing as how I've not spared any expense thus far on the brew system, why start now?

Click to expand...

THAT'S THE SPIRIT!!!!!!!!

Alright--- talked me into it.

Now only if I can convince SWMBO!!

Yeah, that's kind of what I thought. I use a HERMS system, so to ramp up temps in the HLT, I think it would be best to go with 200,000 on the HLT, and 200,000 on the kettle and a 100,000 on the mashtun.

In fact, I think I'll order them tonight.

I'll post pictures whenever I have this thing setup and running, to be sure.

Got my burners today!!! I ended up ordering 3 of the 200,000 BTU burners (NB was out of 100,000 burners).

Here's a pic--these suckers are monsters. I called my plumber today, and he's excited to hook these up and test 'em out.




Here's the gas line (next to the water filter) that all this will be hooked up to.

more to come---first indoor batch scheduled for Thursday, mash in time slated at 1230. Pictures to be posted.

question now is, I have the three 170,000 propane burners with flame guards, as well as the propane hookup and regulator that I'm not using anymore. I'm considering selling them. What would be a fair asking price for these?? Any offers??

I would guess $30-40 would be fair for the lot, although I don't need them.

I'd be interested in maybe one burner and the reg. How much? I was considering going with nat gas but I like the portability of propane for group brews and such.

Sounds like we've got about the same setup! I brew in my garage with 3 of those same burners! I've not monitored the CO levels, but with the backdoor open a crack and the garage door open a crack, the air moving through hasn't been an issue at all.
Eventually I'll have to convert to propane though because I should be moving within the year to a rural area that only has propane.....I just hope the water will be better!
I had thought about trading you at the beginning of the post but you already got your burners!

Craig5_12 said:

Sounds like we've got about the same setup! I brew in my garage with 3 of those same burners! I've not monitored the CO levels, but with the backdoor open a crack and the garage door open a crack, the air moving through hasn't been an issue at all.
Eventually I'll have to convert to propane though because I should be moving within the year to a rural area that only has propane.....I just hope the water will be better!
I had thought about trading you at the beginning of the post but you already got your burners!

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Dang, wish I'd known that. . .

I got my burners installed today-- These things really put off some heat. My plumber was impressed. Mash in time tomorrow has been moved up to 0900. Going to brew a robust porter.

As promised:

I brew inside always. It's in a garage next to the sink. I use a 210,000 BTU burner and have had no problems. If I feel stuffy at all I just open the personnel door for a little fresh air. Been doing it for months.

yeah, I'm not afraid. My plumber didn't seem too worried about it either. I've got a door to the outside in that room and a box fan if necessary.

Biermann said:

Here's a pic--these suckers are monsters. I called my plumber today, and he's excited to hook these up and test 'em out.

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those are AWESOME!!


lol... i'm looking through these pics and i'm starting to wonder when you are gonna install a bar, some TV's and open up for business! HAHAH!

sirsloop said:

lol... i'm looking through these pics and i'm starting to wonder when you are gonna install a bar, some TV's and open up for business! HAHAH!

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Oh, I forgot the TV-- 42" plasma over in the corner

I've just about got my dream bar.. . . :rockin:

You can go off a person you know.

Biermann-

Nice..................................

really fricken nice...........................

Do i look good in this color? Cuz i think the color of jealously makes my ass look fat!

Biermann...







... you suck!!!

When we were looking for a new house, I insisted we get this one, purely because of the brew room and the bar room. My wife liked other aspects, so we both won.

Seriously-- not trying to incite jealousy-- although I am proud of my setup! Most of it was paid for with my overtime. . .

Show it man.

We can cope with jealousy.

WOW... just wow! All thats left is a liquor license! (wait... you have one?)

SWMBO must:

1. be awesome
2. like beer
3. like your beer

or...
1. NOT EXIST!!

Didnt you say in another post you were a doctor? I didnt know you guys had overtime. nice!!!!!!!!

Not really jealous, but it does give me something to shoot for as the bar goes under construction this week!!!

sirsloop said:

WOW... just wow! All thats left is a liquor license! (wait... you have one?)

SWMBO must:

1. be awesome
2. like beer
3. like your beer

Click to expand...

1. Yes,
2. Yes,
3. and YES,
and more importantly, she likes me having an outlet for my stress.

She is awesome though.

Reverend JC said:

Didnt you say in another post you were a doctor? I didnt know you guys had overtime. nice!!!!!!!!

Not really jealous, but it does give me something to shoot for as the bar goes under construction this week!!!

Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm a doctor-- I'm an ER doctor, and I work for a group that is salaried by the hospital-- so any clinical time I have over my alotted hours gives me an hourly rate-- its not really "time and a half"--its just straight "time."

Our group was down 3 docs, and hence, I had a lot of overtime (working about 60 some odd hours a week-- the overtime pay builds up when its not budgeted-- hence the brewery upgrades.

Now if I can only get all my student loans paid off!

Wow, that is a very sweet setup....now I have something to shoot for.....thanks!

First all indoor brew day went awesome-- just not having to move all my crap outside and back in again, and having it in the proximity of my water supply shortened my brew day by about 2 hours.

Just thought I'd update it all.

It's good when a plan comes together, especially when that plan ends in beer.