Brutus 10 BYO Plans Changes?

I just got the plans today. Are there any recommended changes or modifications to the plans or are they good as is? Seems like there are a lot of tweeks to each individual system I've seen on here. Curious to see what the best changes/modifications are before I start building mine.


Thanks,

I went a bit easier route..it does not look as clean but I'm very happy with it. I chose mild steel..cheaper and easier to work with. I painted it and it holds up nice but over time will need more coats of paint. I was new to welding so I did not trust my welds to turn the back bar into a propane filled gas bomb. I used black pipe for that and was very happy. I have only one pump because I batch sparge..well I think thats my changes..Do what you want and will work for your system..the plans are just a good starting point to work from.

J

Lonnie's build started a trend that's for sure. As you've already noted there are a lot of variations of a single tier brewery. Probably your best option is to take a step back and ask yourself a few questions - as those will guide future decisions on modifications.

1) Do you want to do a recirculating mash? (RIMS or HERMS)
2) What are your welding and fabrication skills? If you pay someone to do the welding, sometimes simpler is better.
3) What are you planning to use for your tuns? Keggles? Pots?

The list of questions could go on - I can tell you from experience. My dad, brother and I made the decision to build a brewery months ago and we're still in the process of asking questions to complete our build.

As discgolfin pointed out - one of the simpler mods is the gas beam. Although Lonnie's is cool, it's a lot of work for probably a limited pay off. Black pipe and fittings are fairly inexpensive and readily available - if you aren't opposed to having a pipe mounted to the back - it's a popular "tweek"

Burners - do you want to go jet burner? or a different route (Banjo, Hurricane, other cast models) this will also play into your gas plumbing choices for low vs high pressure (regulators, valves, etc).

Some builds add tipping trays for the tuns to aid in cleaning.

One final thing I might throw out there is consider the height of the stand. If you have your tuns already try and mock something up with milk crates or tables, etc to get the height that are called out in the plans - we found we wanted to bring ours down several inches for a few reasons. We aren't super tall so don't need the height for one. Being able to look down into the Mash Tun and BK during brewing is nice and when the stand is too high it could be difficult.

If you spend an evening browsing through the forums, jotting down ideas you see in other builds and building a list of pros and cons of each design element - it might aid in your decision making process.

But in the end - building the Brutus 10 clone from Lonnie's plans is an excellent route as well!

Good luck and be sure to keep us updated.

Great ideas so far fellas! Keep them coming, I love seeing these as well... From the beginning I always said that this is not my Brutus, it is yours! The advice I give is to really look at your processes and build the brewery to do what you want it to do for you and you only...

Great comment about the height. I determined the height of Brutus simply by measuring from my arm pit to the floor! Nothing more went into it than that. From that measurement I deducted my pot height, added the caster height and figured out the rest...

Brew on brothas...

I like the idea of the tipping mash tun for cleaning!

So you gotta link for the plans?

Post LOTS of pics of your build my friend... Love to keep up with these...

Here's a pic of mine, finished it back at the end of October. I've had to adapt a bit to the new setup but I think I've got it pretty dialed in now.

Irrenarzt said:

Here's a pic of mine, finished it back at the end of October. I've had to adapt a bit to the new setup but I think I've got it pretty dialed in now.

Click to expand...

NICE RIG!!! :rockin:

Where'd you get the metal for the stand?

That's standard T-slot. I actually had a bunch lying around so I didn't have to buy much. The company is called 8020 IIRC but many companies offer aluminum t-slot extrusions. I think I have some metric stuff from Germany as well. The advantage is you can cut it yourself with a chop saw and no welding is required. The frame does get hotter than SS but it's not been an issue and I've brewed about 100 gallons on it since finishing it.

A big advantage is that the top frame cross members are adjustable so that if you change pots, you don't have to build a new frame.

Interesting stuff right there!

Where would I be able to buy t-slot?

Do you think HD or lowes has it?

No HD or Lowes won't have it but 8020 will. Here's a link:

http://www.8020.net/

All you need to do is get the Brutus plans and in there they have a cut list. Buy 1.5" or 2" for the main parts of the frame. I went with 3" x 1.5" top bars to better support 3 pots worth of hot boiling water and wort. It's robust, even when hot. You could put Kevin Smith up there and it would hold.

I love using the 80/20 stuff...totally idiot proof...a little pricey but cheaper than stainless and a welder.

Irrenarzt said:

You could put Kevin Smith up there and it would hold.

Click to expand...

LOL, good name drop.

"THE SIGN on the back of the car said "Critters Of HOLLYWOOD", YOU DUMB F*CK!"

I'm definitely gonna check out the t-slot as an alternative to da schteel. I'll letcha know whats I comes up withs.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who waited to build a Brutus when the BYO issue came out. I've sent a couple of emails to Lonnie requesting some other plans I've read he has.

Got the Stainless Steel 20' x $143 each, and SS flat panels $25 ea. x2
Buddy owns a body shop and has guys that will do welding.
Getting some sockets for the casters - and prices some from Castercity - Owen, the owner didn't recommend the same casters Lonnie speced in his article, but some Olefin which he said would be better for prolonged parking. I dunno haven't bought them yet.

Now I'm on to the Gas issue. I have some major headaches about this. Burner height issues, which burners to get (Ones from BYO aren't listed on morebeer anymore), what regulator to use, wether to use gas beam, etc, not to mention solenoids..

I think it has to do with pressure of the gas - in my case LP. I'm planning to do the gas beam. I don't know how man BTU's I'll need for the burners, or how to determine wether I can use LP, NG or both on any given burner, and what it's gas requirement will be in terms of PSI in order to function properly and make its maximum rated BTUs. I'm shooting for 75k to 125k range for the burners. I have a hose type regulator for my King Kooker burner I use now, but it has a small hose, that I doubt could support 3x100k BTU burners.

Looks like Lonnie's burners are 12 jet burners with 2 plugged off. Supose I could find some of those (anyoe have a source for high quality non-leaking 12 jet burners?), but what about the jets and plugs? Any sources ? I assume the propane jets are different than the NG jets or is this wrong? Any problems (with pressure issues) using the banjo Burner/Hurricane burner sold over on NB site?

Also the solenoids, I was thinking that Honeywell, and rodgers white have some nice solenoids, that have integrated pilot and safety thermowell to make sure pilot is lit before opening, all built in. I think this is the one used on the Morebeer sculpture.

I'd prefer pilots, and would also want to add on some shrouds for the burners, maybe some "stays" to keep the pots in place on top.
Also be nice to be able to adjust the burner flame from up front rather than from the back of the rig

I've read some have their brutus tip over !!! Anyone else out there have a problem with this? Also was thinking it'd be nice to have a control panel that's enclosed in a box, and that can fold away for easy storage when its parked in the garage. Ive yet to see any plans for a tippy-dump where the link hadn't expired, though I doubt, it'd be too difficult to simply hand dump or scoop.

Lastly, I was thinking about using a Blichmann 15 gallon boilermaker for the mash tun, and if I can afford, for all 3 vessels. I've read that there are chamfered bottoms, which makes it tricky to fit, but it will work on the standard plans.

Comments? Lonnie, any chance of getting more detailed plans (such as where to have holes drilled in the stainless for routing wires through the stand?)?

Thanks!

TD

I'm currently acquiring all the parts I need. I figured I would get the steel last.

I have ALSO sent a couple of emails to Lonnie requesting some other plans I've read he has. Still haven't heard back from him, so let me know if you do, please.

I bought ASCO valves, the EF8210G087V and the EF8210G087, after reading this thread:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/know-your-gas-solenoid-valve-51486/

I got three 1/2 keggles, a couple of 55k BTU burners (bayou classic and king kooker), all the ball valves, and all my other normal all grain equipment (cooler, immersion chiller, etc.) so I still have A LOT more to go...

Do you think I need burners with more BTU?

Some have had it tip over? I might have to design some kind of legs that can extend out on brew day for added stability. Shouldn't be too difficult. That's only if I hear this from at least several other people.

I'll be addin' some water heater elements that I would use WITHOUT the propane runnin. Too much PITA to have both runnin at once. That way, I can brew indoors and outdoors.

That's all I can think of to say for now, I'll post more once I sober up. :fro:

Sounds good.

Where did you source your ASCO valves?

I have a King Kooker but it used high pressure LP I believe. Very Noisy. I am not sure if the Low pressure burners in Lonnie's design are quieter or not, I've never heard one. Anyway, the King Kooker cast burner I use I asctually ported with a dremel on a whim - not sure how much that'll improve BTU rating, but anyway, Its always been more than enough to get a Keggle Boiling darn quick - never timed before. You know It all depends on how fast you want to heat things up. For HLT burner, onces its up to temp, not going to need too many BTU's to maintain, same with Boil Kettle, and ditto for Direct-Fired mash tun. It all depends on how long you want to wait. As I haven't built mine yet, I cannot attest to step-mashing times though.

Haven't heard from Lonnie - PM'ed him here, and emailed him at Alenuts. Granted its only been a couple days.

Another area I'd like some advice on is the Lid returns idea. I know he has 90 elbows into the lids, but what beneath that? I'm planning to batch sparge, but during the mash recirc, I'd think you'll want even return flow so as not to disturb the grain bed. I can't tell from the BYO article, what goes UNDER the lid. Boil Kettle, and HLT could care less about the return... well maybe.

As an aside, HSA issue - how does that work again? You want to avoid hot side aeration I know, but what about sloshing hot wort into the boil kettle? Does that count?

TD

Irrenarzt said:

Here's a pic of mine, finished it back at the end of October. I've had to adapt a bit to the new setup but I think I've got it pretty dialed in now.

Click to expand...

What size Blichman kettles are those?

Irrenarzt said:

No HD or Lowes won't have it but 8020 will. Here's a link:

http://www.8020.net/

All you need to do is get the Brutus plans and in there they have a cut list. Buy 1.5" or 2" for the main parts of the frame. I went with 3" x 1.5" top bars to better support 3 pots worth of hot boiling water and wort. It's robust, even when hot. You could put Kevin Smith up there and it would hold.

Click to expand...

Do you have any more pics of your setup?, i may want to build something similar myself, i'd like to see what joining plates you used in particular

Thanks!

I'll have to take some. That was just a quickie iPhone pic.

schweaty said:

What size Blichman kettles are those?

Click to expand...

20 for boil/15 MT/15 HLT

What burners are you all using? Ones from B3 are not listed for sale anymore

TD

10 tip minis from shopperschoice.com. Beware as quality is hit or miss. I had to install 8 before I had 3 working ones. They say they are testing each burner now before it goes out which is probably a result of all leaking ones coming through. They are cool about warranties though. My HLT burner just let go, spewing orange flames out the side of one of the nozzles and they warrantied it, even after the 90 day period. Big props to shopperschoice for top notch customer service.

You can order for nat gas or propane. Which did you use? Are you using low pressure propane? Are you able to run all the burners at max off a single regulator? How long to boil?

Thanks! The burner issue is the biggest dilemma I have.

TD

Propane here hoss. My house doesn't have NG from the main so I'd have to pay a grip to have it plumbed in and I'm ok without it. If you have NG then I'd consider going that route as you wouldn't have to keep running to the propane shop for refills.

I'm using a 0-30 PSI acetylene regulator direct into my propane tanks and I'm running at about 1 PSI. You can kind of see the end of it in my pic below. I can run all 3 at once but you need to bump it up to about 2.5-3 PSI to do that. Two burners can run fine at 1 PSI with the ASCO valves turning on and off. Don't get the 11WC/0.4 PSI regulator from MoreBeer that Lonnie suggests as 1) it's overpriced from MB and 2) it's cannot do more than 1 burner at a time with the shopperschoice mini burners.

Thanks again!

When you ordered those burners, did you pick nat gas option or propane option?

Tejas smokers .com sells a smilar model for nearly $100. Looks identical but they say config for low pressure propane. Im sure it's the same darn burner, maybe difft tips depending on which gas option you pick.

How long do you find it takes to get a boil going? You using 3 burners all same size or go larger on boil kettle?

I don't recall an NG option when I ordered mine. I seem to recall high pressure propane was the only available burner and I was worried before I got them as I was concerned they wouldn't work at lower pressures but it turns out they work just fine. I think the tejas ones are likely the same casting and same tips. I called them and the redneck I talked to didn't know much and conceded that they are probably all from the same factory in china. 100 bucks a pop from tejas is a bit hard to swallow and I'm not nearly as tightwadded as half the dudes around here.

I typically only use one burner at a time and the rate to reach boil is reasonably quick, on the order of 10 minutes to get a 7 gallon wort to boil after sparge and maybe 15-20 for a bigger batch. It's not bad and you can crank the pressure and make it faster if you have an adjustable regulator (I highly recommend not skimping on your regulator, you'll thank me later). My process is slightly different as I heat my strike water directly in my MT, mash in and during the sach rest, I heat up sparge water in my HLT and by the time I need to mash out then sparge, I'm all set to go. Seems more efficient to me.

Overall I'm happy with the setup.

Thanks TONS!

I'd been worrying about all these issues and had contemplated getting individual burners and tanks and in general "over engineering" everything.

Going to order some chineese burners! You said you went through 8? Were they bad from the start or fail later? Might order extras from the start.

Where'd you get your acetylene reg? Connects directly to propane cylinder?

You copy the pilot assy from BYO? I was thinking about the honeywell valves that include pilot assy.

What is the distance from your burner to kettle bottom ( or are you using keggles)?

Aubie Stout said:

I just got the plans today.

Click to expand...

There are plans?

I ordered 3 from shopperschoice and waited about 2 months to finally get them but they all leaked from the casting so I called them and we eventually went through 8 to get 3 good ones. After this, they claim to now test each one individually before they ship out. I had one fail recently and they warrantied it, even though it's been well over the 90 day warranty period. They have a thread with a discount code, you'll have to search here to find it.

As for the pilots, I drilled and tapped for a 1/4 to 1/4 swagelok bulkhead and run a line from a ball valve to the orifice (simply a drilled out swagelok 1/4 cap). So it's manual but this way I can better control sooting of the pilot flame. I looked into the honeywell pilots but decided it added unnecessary complexity. I want to be a part of the process, not just a switch flipper. I used stainless braided lines as I thought the yellow Lowe's/HD lines Lonnie used a tad ghetto but I'm actually thinking of hard plumbing in some 1/4" stainless tubing and bending them precisely to fit. I'm building a new control panel so once I have that anodized and machined then I'll go through the rig and redo some of the things I didn't like the first time around.

You can get an acetylene regulator from any local gas supply. I went with Matheson as I have a relationship with them and they make great regulators (it's branded as Matheson). Here's a good but more affordable alternative:

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200345430_200345430

I'm using Blichmann pots (I told you I wasn't a tightwad), not keggles. My burners are 4" below the bottom of the Boilermakers and it's the perfect distance (no soot, except from too large a pilot flame, which I control myself. All you need is a 2" or less pilot flame and you'll get no soot).

Cliff897 said:

There are plans?

Click to expand...

Just kidding but yeah there are plans. PM me your fax number and I'll fax them to you in a couple days or whenever I get to it. I have to find them but I think I still have them. Or go on the BYO site and look for the Brutus 10 special reprint. It's a good background to the whole project but it's not perfect. You will have to improvise a few things here and there. It's not a checklist, more of an overview.

Had the BYO mag when it came out, got the "plans" today.


TD

THat regulator will bolt right onto a standard propane cylinder?

TD

Shonuff hombre

On a slightly different note, but also relating to the Brutus builds...

I plan NOT to route the wires internally - mostly because I want to get the cart welded up first before I plan the wiring part, and since that means I'll be doing the drilling, no thanks...

Well, after reading the sticky about exploding keggles, due to bottom rim not having any perforations, and pressure build-up, I was curious about the Brutus.

While the only weld designed to be airtight, is the gas beam and its multiple welds, it is possible and likely that all the welds are airtight. On the top surface which gets really hot, since the frame is sealed, is it likely to explode like the Sanke keggle story?

Has anyone drilled pressure relief holes into their brutus?

TD

TrickyDick said:

On a slightly different note, but also relating to the Brutus builds...

I plan NOT to route the wires internally - mostly because I want to get the cart welded up first before I plan the wiring part, and since that means I'll be doing the drilling, no thanks...

Well, after reading the sticky about exploding keggles, due to bottom rim not having any perforations, and pressure build-up, I was curious about the Brutus.

While the only weld designed to be airtight, is the gas beam and its multiple welds, it is possible and likely that all the welds are airtight. On the top surface which gets really hot, since the frame is sealed, is it likely to explode like the Sanke keggle story?

Has anyone drilled pressure relief holes into their brutus?

TD

Click to expand...

Actually I never completely welded the bottom welds on the upper surface! You could probably see that in the vids I just posted last night in the general beer... I always told myself that I would get around to it but by then I was brewing on it already! And the dang frame is plenty strong enough anyway... If you are concerned, drill a .250 hole on the bottom of each member on the upper heat surface.

Regarding usage of Blichmann Boilermaker Kettles on the BRUTUS with the stepped bottom.

With the 12 inch squares for resting the kettles on, and 16 inch square including 2 inch tubing size (and noting 2 inch spacing between the next tubing which you could halve) give max diameter kettle of just under 17" not counting handles (those handles face front to back, not side to side), or lip on the rim, without having the kettles touching each other. (I measured my Keggle diameter at 15.5 as a reference)

According the Blichmann website,

Size Side Wall Diameter Base Step Diameter Thermo Stem
10 Gal 13.8 10.9 4.0 Gal
15 Gal 15.7 12.8 6.5 Gal
20 Gal 17.7 14.8 8.25 Gal

The 20 Gallon is out - kettles are 17.7 diameter

The 15 Gallon is ok in diameter 15.7, but the base step is 12.8 - I would worry that with only .4 inches of contact on each side, that the weight of a full kettle would deform or indent the base, and perhaps if this happened in the Mash Tun, that the mash screen might not seal correctly. Also would worry the vessel might fall or tip over if budged slightly and the base step slipped towards one side.

The 10 gallon looks like it'll fit fine. My current Mash tun is 10 gallons and I've never maxed it out. Could still probably brew even the biggest beers I would want by using a thicker mash, or a double mash or simply adding some DME. Switching to a recirculated mash however, I may want to run a thinner mash than before. That being said, I might also like to try some 10 gallon batches just because, and would also rather have a 15 gallon Boil Kettle to avoid boilovers.

Could use my existing kettle, but the rounded bottom has always been a peeve to me. Also, would be too tall to reach into at the default rig height of 33 3/8 when counting the casters & sockets (5 3/8) plus the 28 stock height in plans (either of the 10 or 15 gallon sizes would work fine for me). Also, the 4.0 gallon thermometer stem on the 10 gallon kettle is fine. The 6.5 gallon thermo stem on the 15 gallon kettle would be difficult to work with when brewing 5 gallon batches.

In light of all of these variables and trade-off, what have the rest of you chosen for your vessels? I see plenty of keggles out there, a quite a few Boilermakers as well.

Welcoming any suggestions or advice here.

Thanks!

TD

Just change the spacing of the upper cross members as per the pots you buy. I have the boilermakers and I just changed the spacing to fit the 15's (I use these for MT/HLT). It only takes a slight position change as I recall. Piece of cake...

And by the way, the boliermaker thermostems are indeed a bit high for 5 gallon batches but I mostly do 5 gallon batches anyway. Once your love probes are calibrated and set, you won't need the boilermaker thermometers.

That's great!

For some strange reason I was thinking that the thermo ports were the sight-glass.
Yeah, their use will be essentially none, once I've got the thermocouples going.

Would you mind measuring your setup as far as the spacing goes?
Did you move them closer together I assume?

Thanks!

Are you also fermenting in one of the kettles when you're done?

TD

TD

Irrenarzt said:

No HD or Lowes won't have it but 8020 will. Here's a link:

http://www.8020.net/

All you need to do is get the Brutus plans and in there they have a cut list. Buy 1.5" or 2" for the main parts of the frame. I went with 3" x 1.5" top bars to better support 3 pots worth of hot boiling water and wort. It's robust, even when hot. You could put Kevin Smith up there and it would hold.

Click to expand...

this 80/20 T slot stuff looks like a great clean economical no-weld option

Can casters be fitted into the bottoms easily?

anyone draw up any plans for a rig using this stuff?, looking for a 2 tier design myself using 3 keggles

Tricky, I can measure but can't do it right away. I recall the 20 fits with the original Lonnie spec of 12" and I seem to think I moved the HLT/MT stations down to around 10.5" but not quite sure. All I know is they fit fine. I tend to move them a bit up towards me as the operator to keep the ball valves from getting too hot. Seems to work just fine.

Edit: forgot to say NO I don't use a kettle for fermenting. I need the kettles for brewing so I can't let one out of the rotation. I use a Blichmann conical, a sanke keg and about 8 buckets. I have a few glass carboys as well but I use these for sours and they are in my closet most of the year.

Vince yes mine has casters and it's super easy as the t-slot has a center hole you can thread a bolt right into. I can easily roll it round with the casters unlocked, even loaded but my practice is to set it locked and not roll it while brewing. Just use the standard cut list from Lonnie's plans but add a foot to the front beam as this extends out to mount your control panel on. It not a big stretch to improvise Lonnies plans using 8020. If you are really mechanically challenged, you can fax them Lonnies drawings and they can draw it up and send you all the parts ready to assemble but that will typically cost a bit more. Since I had a bunch lying around, I just did it myself.