Aging And Headspace

I was considering making a barleywine, but I don't have a proper sized carboy to age it in, and it'll be a while before I do.

Would it be possible to secondary it into another bucket and add a small amount of fermentibles so as to recreate a CO2 blanket and be OK for 9+ months? Or does that just somewhat recreate the grub issue that I racked off of?

Why do you want to bulk age it that long? Id give it a month or two in primary and then bottle age it.

My understanding is that you want to "age" it for it's sitting time all together so that it all tastes the same.

Initially I considered just doing a 4-5 week primary and bottling it, and waiting for a year or so... But I was told I'd want to have it sit all together for the bulk of that time.

you shouldn't age in buckets that long - you need a carboy. not only are lids on buckets prone to leaks, the plastic itself is permeable. doesn't matter over a few weeks, will matter over many months.

i'd go 2 months max in buckets and then the rest of the aging should be in bottles... or get a carboy.

ktraver97ss said:

Why do you want to bulk age it that long? Id give it a month or two in primary and then bottle age it.

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there are many reasons: flavor consistently (ex: even oxidation, which is part of the style). aging on slow-acting fruit or wood. allow stuff to drop and then not have it in the bottles.

So aging in beer bottles would be OK?
And what of Better Bottles? They are plastic...

rodwha said:

So aging in beer bottles would be OK?
And what of Better Bottles? They are plastic...

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Glass has the lowest oxygen permeability, but better bottles aren't too far behind it. They are not just "plastic" . . . they are made of a specialized PET, which Better Bottle likes to point out as having "Negligible Oxygen Permeability" . . . I've heard that over EXTREMELY long times, you can get some permeability, but over anything under a year, Better Bottles work fine.

I'm not fond of the idea of glass carboys...

And so should I give a barleywine 4 weeks primary followed by 4 weeks secondary and bottle?

masterfool101 said:

Glass has the lowest oxygen permeability, but better bottles aren't too far behind it. They are not just "plastic" . . . they are made of a specialized PET, which Better Bottle likes to point out as having "Negligible Oxygen Permeability" . . . I've heard that over EXTREMELY long times, you can get some permeability, but over anything under a year, Better Bottles work fine.

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People talk about the permeability of better bottles like its some huge factor.

Then forget the fact they are oxidizing way more during transfers and taking gravity readings than you'll see from permeability..

Better bottle actually has a paper that shows a major factor of the amount of air that gets in is due to the bung and airlock type that you use...some are better than others at keeping air out...some are really bad.

rodwha said:

So aging in beer bottles would be OK?

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ok, but not the same. bulk aging requires keeping all the beer together. bottles = breaking the beer into smaller individual packages that don't mix anymore (or won't be mixed again, like they were at bottling). so bottle aging is sort of the opposite of bulk aging.

rodwha said:

And what of Better Bottles? They are plastic...

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for 6-8 months i've read that BB's are ok.

rodwha said:

And so should I give a barleywine 4 weeks primary followed by 4 weeks secondary and bottle?

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sounds like a good plan. enjoy!

rodwha said:

I'm not fond of the idea of glass carboys...

And so should I give a barleywine 4 weeks primary followed by 4 weeks secondary and bottle?

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If it's oxydation you're concerned about why secondary at all? Your primary has all the CO2 you need already so the oxygen is only introduced during your transfer to secondary. Many brewers, myself included, have all but abandoned the transfer. I've heard of brews sitting in a primary fermentor for 6 months without ill effect. Many still swear by it, but I think there's ample evidence out there that it's not a necessary step in making great beer...

First how long is awhile? Glass would be better for long aging but I haven't seen any studies that say BB can't be used for long aging nor that they can. Most don't want to take chances with there beer so won't risk it. It all comes down to what you can afford, bulk aging would be best but if you don't want to take a chance with BB then bottle and age it.

Demus said:

If it's oxydation you're concerned about why secondary at all? Your primary has all the CO2 you need already so the oxygen is only introduced during your transfer to secondary. Many brewers, myself included, have all but abandoned the transfer. I've heard of brews sitting in a primary fermentor for 6 months without ill effect. Many still swear by it, but I think there's ample evidence out there that it's not a necessary step in making great beer...

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His primary is a plastic bucket.

I talked about it in passing with SWMBO, and she'd like for me to make the barleywine, and told me not to concern myself with the additional expense (I get an "allowance" of $70/mo, though I often go over it a bit + local grains) of a carboy as it ought to be mature right around the time the lease is up.

I didn't want to 86 anything off of my list in order to throw a carboy in there too.

well turn this into an experiment, bottle age this batch and save a couple of bottles. Save up some money to buy a carboy and re-brew it. After it has been bulk aged and ready to drink..compare it to the couple of bottles you saved and you can see which is best.

I'll be getting the carboy along with the ingredients next month (I plan 1 month out). But the experiment sounds like a good idea. Maybe I'll bottle a few when I transfer to the carboy. I'll give it 5 or 6 weeks primary.