First mead (cyser) in primary. Questions and concerns.

So last night I tried my first cyser. It was a 1 gallon batch. Here's my recipe.

2lbs. Raw local honey
1lbs. Dutch Gold Wildflower honey
1 Gallon (.75 gallon actually) of pastuerized unfiltered apple cider (preservative free)
Safbrew S-33
1tsp of yeast nutrient
1tsp of yeast energizer

SG: 1.171

I warmed the honey containers in a bowl of hot water to help the flow. After adding the honey to the sanitized 1 gallon carboy I added the cider. S-33 yeast was hydrated in a cup of cider with yeast nutrient and energizer for a hour. During that hour I was shaking the hell out of the carboy mixing the cider/honey. Then I pitched and shook for about another fifteen minutes. Yeast started going to town within a hour.

So everything seems cool. I just wanted to know if I made any mistakes or could have done something better.

My main concerns:

Should I have heated/ or boiled the cider?

Is it possible to ever get this cyser to clear since I used unfiltered cider?

I saw some negative reviews on the Safbrew S-33 in the cider forum after pitching. Is my cyser going to suck now?

When should I move it to a secondary?

Sorry if some of these are redundant noob questions and thanks in advance for all feedback.

StLouisBrews said:

Should I have heated/ or boiled the cider?

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No need, it was pasteurized so there's no reason to disinfect it. It's probably a good idea to spray sanitizer on the outside of the jug before pouring it out to prevent picking something up as you pour it out, but even that's low-risk as long as it's clean.

Is it possible to ever get this cyser to clear since I used unfiltered cider?

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Should be, I imagine. Unfiltered (unfermented) cider will usually clarify pretty well if left undisturbed, I don't see why that wouldn't be true after fermentation. Only worry would be pectin haze, which you could address by adding pectinase, but I wouldn't sweat it.

I saw some negative reviews on the Safbrew S-33 in the cider forum after pitching. Is my cyser going to suck now?

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From my experience, the differences between yeast strains that "suck" and don't are greatly exaggerated. It'll be fine. I think the only criticism I'd take seriously would be issues with a fermentation getting stuck, and at this point there's no sense worrying unless it actually happens.

When should I move it to a secondary?

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A while after fermentation is clearly completed. So probably a couple months from now. I think I racked my mead after 6 weeks or so, and that was because I was using 71B, which is not recommended for extended time on the lees. (Even at 6 weeks, I don't think I was in any risk of running into trouble.)

Thanks for all the input/advice zeg. I feel better now.

1.171 is a high OG, has fermentation started? I am unfamiliar with that yeast but it might be hard to get started in that high of an OG.

The quick search I just did says it can ferment up tp 12% that would leave you with a fg of 1.08. that is pretty sweat. If this is right I might think about diluting this.

Cjtabares said:

1.171 is a high OG, has fermentation started? I am unfamiliar with that yeast but it might be hard to get started in that high of an OG.

The quick search I just did says it can ferment up tp 12% that would leave you with a fg of 1.08. that is pretty sweat. If this is right I might think about diluting this.

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Yeah I might. Depending on how sweet it ends up. My wife like her mead/wine sweet. I've read that the S-33 can tend to be fast started but gets lazy later on. It started no problem though bubbling furiously enough to blow the airlock off once. Is it a bad idea to pitch a different yeast if I want it to dry out a little more?

I know I should aerate this stuff quite a bit, but it's so volitile right now I'm afraid it would overflow again. What gauge plastic tubing would I need to make a blowoff?

Did you take that OG reading yourself? It does seem a little high. You say one gallon of apple in a one gallon batch with a load of honey, that doesn't fit!

Using the gotmead calc I get 1.14 if I up it to a 1.25 gallon batch or 1.15 if I assume only 0.75g of apple, which is a bit better but still likely to be very sweet.

Insomniac said:

Did you take that OG reading yourself? It does seem a little high. You say one gallon of apple in a one gallon batch with a load of honey, that doesn't fit!

Using the gotmead calc I get 1.14 if I up it to a 1.25 gallon batch or 1.15 if I assume only 0.75g of apple, which is a bit better but still likely to be very sweet.

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Yeah I didn't use the whole gallon. I just filled it up so about 3/4 of a gallon. I did do the OG thats what it was at. The cider had a whole lot of sediment in it. could that of thrown off my reading?

If the SG was definitely that high, I'd suggest that you pitch some K1V.

Sweet is relative. A couple of years back, I did a little test of 4 commercial meads available here, they all tasted fine flavour-wise, but at an average FG of 1.040 they were all cloyingly sweet. So if you ended up with a final of 1.080 its gonna be like drinking watered down honey.

fatbloke said:

If the SG was definitely that high, I'd suggest that you pitch some K1V.

Sweet is relative. A couple of years back, I did a little test of 4 commercial meads available here, they all tasted fine flavour-wise, but at an average FG of 1.040 they were all cloyingly sweet. So if you ended up with a final of 1.080 its gonna be like drinking watered down honey.

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You think I should wait til the S-33 is done or just pitch K1V asap? I'm getting some tubing to make a blow and I'll just pitch it then if it's the right thing to do.

It can sometimes be tricky getting a new yeast to take off in a partially fermented must. I would do the following.........Let it go as is until it seems to stop, test it. If it needs further fermentation, rack to clean jug, start your K1V in a 1/2 cup water and 1/2 cup of your must. Once it becomes very active pitch it into the jug. This will acclimate the yeast to the alcohol.

plan looks good. yes it will clear if given enough time, pectic enzyme works pretty well, and don't boil cider, you'll never get it to clear if boiled. You could consider freezing the left over cider for topping off the batch when you rack. I usually have it in primary from 10 days to a month depending on the yeast and then rack every month to every 2 months till clear, depending on lees. If its too sweet for your taste, then top off with distilled water.

Update: It seems like the S-33 has slowed a bit. It's still bubbling quite a bit just not as much (as in I can shake it up without it blowing it's top.). I'm considering putting a tsp of cinnamon and a tsp of vanilla extract to the secondary when it's done. Can anyone vouch whether that's too much for a one gallon batch?

Be careful with ground cinammon........can gunk things up, use a stick so you can easily remove it when you reach your desired flavor. Tie a fish line around it.
I used 2 tbsp real vanilla extract in 5 gallons so your tsp is prob close. Start small and add til your happy.

It's been 16 days and fermentation has slowed dramatically (it almost seems stuck). Other than shaking it up twice a day I've pretty much left this stuff alone. Would now be a good time to add some nutrients? I have some generic yeast energizer and yeast nutrient. If I do add nutrient should I disolve it in water before or just add it in?

I would get a gravity reading, it could easily be almost done in that time and you dont want to be adding nutrients too late on. Usually only up until about a third of the way through.

Insomniac said:

I would get a gravity reading, it could easily be almost done in that time and you dont want to be adding nutrients too late on. Usually only up until about a third of the way through.

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I'll take one tomorrow (as long as my kids give me time to escape). I've been wanting to take one for a while.

New Update: Just did a gravity reading and it's at 1.050. If I remember right the max this yeast could do is 1.040. It's not quite 3 weeks yet so I'm inclined to wait to see if it will get down 1.040. Thinking about giving it until August 1st. It has a wonderful bready apple aroma to it. The taste is what's most surprising to me. Even though it's young it's very drinkable and while it's definitely a sweet cyser, but it's not overly sweet to me. Definitely can tell there's alcohol. A little hoochie. My wife tried it and wanted to have more. There is almost no noticible apple flavor it which apparently is what S-33 does to ciders from what I read in one of the cider threads. In this situation I think it's working out to my advantage though.

So here are my thoughts now; I'm not going to add a cinnamon stick, vanilla or anything. I'm not going to repitch a different yeast either. My wife, a brewing buddy of mine and myself all though it was pretty damn tasty.

I would like some advice on my how I should proceed from here. Sediment has settled at the bottom and takes up nearly half the carboy. Should I cold crash it to make it settle more to the bottom before I rack it or should I use some finning, or even just rack it as is and plan on racking again after a time? Also from what I've read when racking to a secondary you should have as little headspace as possible. After racking should I add some distilled water to fill up that head space?

Again thanks to everyone for their advice and patience with all of my questions. If you have anything else to add I'm all ears. I'm really pleased with how this turned out so far.

If you have the fridge space I would cold crash just to try and have all that yeast compact a bit better, sounds like its raking up far too much space! As for topping up, in some ways yes, you want it to fill the carboy to stop oxidation. But using water will change the taste, great if you are finding it too sweet but not if you like it as is. I have taken to using a vaccuvin wine saver shoved in the top of an airlock to make a vacuum, which has worked quite well so far. Though you could also try adding marbles to raise the water level.

If you go the route of topping off you'd be better off using the same original cider/juice you used, it's going to change the alcohol content but not the flavor profile as much as using water would dilute it. Cold crashing is a good idea before you rack into secondary, personally I prefer to let it clear on it's own without any fining agents but it is a cyser, they tend to take awhile to clear so down the road you may want to consider that.

Update: It's been cold crashing in my fridge for over a week. Sediment has only compacted a little. How long should I give it? If it doesn't go down to an ideal level do I have any options or should I just expect a significant volume loss?

New update: So after cold crashing it for a couple weeks I finally racked it into another 1 gallon carboy. The sediment didn't go down as much as I would have liked. After racking I ended up with a little under an inch of sediment still. I added roughly 1/3 of a gallon of cider to fill to the top.

I'm a bit discouraged at this point. My gravity before racking was 1.039 and adding that cider is just going to make it sweeter. What should I do at this point? I was thinking of waiting a couple weeks and racking again to get rid of more sediment.

I'd give it a couple weeks before doing anything rash. You just diluted the ABV to 2/3 of what it was before, so the yeast may well jump back to life and start fermenting the cider you've just added. If that happens, you'll end up with a lower gravity and lose a bit of sweetness, which is great if you're concerned about it being too sweet.

More than anything, don't get discouraged. You're going to end up with something good, and the more that goes outside of plan along the way, the better a story you end up with. If you just wanted a bottle of hard cider, you could have gone to the store!

zeg said:

I'd give it a couple weeks before doing anything rash. You just diluted the ABV to 2/3 of what it was before, so the yeast may well jump back to life and start fermenting the cider you've just added. If that happens, you'll end up with a lower gravity and lose a bit of sweetness, which is great if you're concerned about it being too sweet.

More than anything, don't get discouraged. You're going to end up with something good, and the more that goes outside of plan along the way, the better a story you end up with. If you just wanted a bottle of hard cider, you could have gone to the store!

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Really I just want the stuff to taste good. In my opinion tasting it before the extra cider addition I thought it was pretty good in comparison to commercial sweet meads I've had. I would mind fermentation starting again. Would it be ill advised to add a tsp. of yeast nutrient at this point? I think I'm just going to leave it be for another month, and rack again.

StLouisBrews said:

Really I just want the stuff to taste good. In my opinion tasting it before the extra cider addition I thought it was pretty good in comparison to commercial sweet meads I've had. I would mind fermentation starting again. Would it be ill advised to add a tsp. of yeast nutrient at this point? I think I'm just going to leave it be for another month, and rack again.

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Sounds like a good philosophy to me.

I don't have any experience with adding nutrients at this point, but I wouldn't be inclined to do so. I'd be more inclined to add a bit of fresh yeast if fermentation didn't restart, but really I'd take your approach and just let it ride.