Water Analysis Question

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marvso

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Been brewing for awhile but like everyone else, always looking for ways to improve. I only recently got into trying to understand the importance of water profiles. It seems a steep learning curve. Here is the results I got back from Ward Laboratories:

pH 7.5
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 68
Cations /Anions, me/L 1.2/1.1


PPM

Sodium, Na 8
Potassium, K 1
Calcium, CA 10
Magnesium, MG 4
Total Hardiness CaC03 42
Nitrate, NO3-N 1.0 (safe)
Sulfate SO4-S <1
Chloride, CI 4
Carbonate, CO3 <1
Bicarbonate HCO3 56
Total Alkalinity CaCO3 46
Total Phosphorus,P 0.10
total Iron, Fe <0.01
"<"- Not Detected/Below Detection Limit


I have been trying to work through the spreadsheets but as I said, this is a huge learning curve for me. Does the above water profile ring any bells on anything I should be adding to my water in the way of additives?

Thanks !
 
You should get some calcium cholride and/or some gypsum. Calcium helps with protein coagulation and feeds yeast and mash enzymes.
 
Ok thanks. I was reading somewhere that 50 to 100 ppm was desirable so it seemed a little low. I also read that Chloride should be 10 to 100 ppm. I am assuming that calcium chloride would raise both?
 
Try to adjust the water for the style you are trying to brew. Simply adding this or that because your water is deficient in something is a waste of time. You want the ratio of your chloride and sulfate to be tweaked according to the profile of your beer. Chloride rounds out malty beers and sulfate improve hops. Get a good program to work with this--something like Bru'n Water.
 
Great advice. Is there a reference that I can use to find an ideal profile for beer I wish to make? I have seen them by location but would be better to have per style.
 
Trying to hit a particular water ion 'profile' for a particular beer is often a waste of effort. It is usually only necessary to re-create the broad characteristics of the beers you are trying to brew. An Export is known for its highly mineralized water and Bohemian Pils for its very low water ion content. British ales are often brewed with high sulfate water. Munich beers with low.

The Primer in the Stickies should be enough to get you started. From there you must experiment until you achieve the result you want.

Beyond there Bru'n Water has carefully researched 'profiles' for various beer styles.
 
getting the hang of EZ WATER CALCULATOR. Pretty slick! Do you think one still needs to invest in a PH meter or are these calculations accurate enough?
 
getting the hang of EZ WATER CALCULATOR. Pretty slick! Do you think one still needs to invest in a PH meter or are these calculations accurate enough?

I've seen the term "water calculator" used more frequently lately and thought it was worth clarifying.

These spreadsheets and online "calculators" are all models, not calculators. There are mathematical calculations involved in the process, but are very much not calculators.

Calculator implies that if you put in the right inputs, you get out the "correct" output. The problem is there are thousands of input variables which you just can't completely know.

A model attempts to use a few known variables to get a decent representation of the system without knowing every last detail.

The authors of the various models have all used their own inputs and methodology to try and get as close to the "actual" pH across as many scenarios as possible.

So it's probably no surprise that these models all give different "answer" to the problem. This is because they are all using a small subset of the inputs in different ways. Ever looks at those hurricane forecast models with different lines for each model?

I guess I could have said "yes, you need a pH meter", but hopefully you have a better idea why.
 
Well said and makes sense. A ph meter it is. As long as I am going through the work and fun of brewing, I want it to be as great as possible
 
The calculators cannot predict what will happen using the grains you are using because they only know about those grains in general terms. That is, a typical pilsner base malt has a titration curve that looks like the one on the 4th graph at http://www.wetnewf.org/pdfs/estimating-mash-ph.html. Your particular bag of malt will be somewhat different. So at best there will be variation (error) from the differences between the malt modeled and the malt being used. I say 'at best' because, AFAIK, none of these calculators use the complete titration curve in their models. It is very difficult and time consuming to get such data. If pressed I'll guess that the predictions are ±0.15 pH. Is that good enough? That's really up to you to decide. I wouldn't be comfortable with that but I think many would.

IMO, then, you really should obtain and learn how to use a pH meter. Others may disagree. I found that controlling pH, by use of a meter, made a pretty substantial improvement in my beers. For others this might not be the case.
 
I sure am appreciating all this help! I just ordered a PH meter that I think will do the trick. If I am to understand this correctly I would put my additives into the Mash that EZ water is estimating that I need. Check my mash after about 15 or twenty minutes into the mash for PH and adjust my PH there by making anymore additions I might need to get desired PH. Is this correct thinking?
 
In general, yes but I'll make one additional suggestion and that is that you check pH and make adjustments on a small mash made from a portion of the grist you plan to use. When this test mash is at the right pH you can scale the acid additions for the whole mash and should be quite close when you brew the whole volume.
 
I am a big fan of Kai's calculator:

http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/

This calculator will help you see what your additions will do to residual alkalinity, one of the most important variables to consider in looking at mash pH. I think dialing in mash pH is the most important thing you can do with water treatments.

Of course, alkalinity in the mash is going to depend heavily on what kinds of grains you use; darker grains drive pH down.

Also keep in mind that in some of these calculators, you need to make sure you plug in your sulfate value properly. Ward labs gives you a sulfate value as only sulfur (which is only 33% of that ion). So, plug in 'ppm as S' with values from their report (or multiply by 3 if your calc of choice doesn't let you correct this).
 
great advice on making a small grist ratio. Not sure I would have ever thought of that. Thanks everyone for all of their great insights.
 
I achieved a ph of 5.3 in Mash thanks to everyone's help. Thank you all so very much. I noticed that my wort was a different quality while boiling this time. Usually it tries to foam over when it first starts the boil but I noticed it was foaming off and on during the boil this time. OG was much higher then normal so I am pretty sure getting the mash ph set correctly greatly improved this.
 
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