DME vs. LME

Hey I know the answer is here somewhere, i've even read it myself but can't find it now. I've always used lme for my extract brews and am wondering, if I wanted to use dry malt extract what is a good ratio to use dry vs. liquid?

Just a noob asking a noob question.

Thanks!

80% I think with out looking.

You are correct 80%

Dude,

Use 20% less D.M.E.


Knife

Cool thanks guys!

Rather than starting a new thread, I'm going to use this one- since it's about the same darn thing-
I just don't know what LME VS DME is all about.
I would like it if some one would explain to me why we use one as opposed to the other for the majority of our extract ingredients. Does one ferment better than the other?
Thanks!

If you ask me, it's about ease of use.

It's a lot simpler to portion out fractions of a package of DME - every try to get a half-pound of LME out of a Munton's tin? You can just snip the corner of a DME bag and tap out enough powder into a bowl.

Liquid yields also less fermentable product per pound than dry, if your storage space is limited.

Finally, liquid extracts don't have anywhere near the shelf life of dry.

According to Palmer:


I prefer dry simply because of ease of use, but that paragraph should give syrup users pause. Many LHBSs don't turn over enough inventory to avoid long shelf storage; make sure you check the package carefully.

* HowToBrew.com Chapter Three.

So does DME seem to make betterbeer?

is it lme < DME < AG?

lol, i think it's like this:

lme < DME < AG

BobNQ3X said:

If you ask me, it's about ease of use.

It's a lot simpler to portion out fractions of a package of DME - every try to get a half-pound of LME out of a Munton's tin? You can just snip the corner of a DME bag and tap out enough powder into a bowl.
...
Many LHBSs don't turn over enough inventory to avoid long shelf storage; make sure you check the package carefully.

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I find working with DME irritating as it starts to clump up and stick to everything the instant it is exposed to air. I realize that's just a personal thing though. I never have to weigh out the LME as I just buy what I want for the recipe and the LHBS weighs it out for me into the bucket.

Any LME that is canned should be pretty safe from oxygen. Any LHBS worth it's salt should be flushing their bulk LME barrels with Nitrogen.

Thanks for the replies, I like DME better and wont worry so much about it now.

I'm bringing back this old thread because I have a similar question;

Why some people adds both LME and DME in the same recipe?

Well, one reason would be availability. If I can get Pilsner DME, but can only get light in LME, then those are my options. I think many recipes are written this way because that is how they were made originally.

As a side note...doesn't LME typically produce results that tend to be darker in color than DME? I have seen many extract recipes that combine both LME and DME and always thought this was, in part, a coloring control approach.

LME can make the beer darker, from the process it undergoes in manufacturing and from carmelization in the kettle. I suppose one could take that into account.

Germey said:

I find working with DME irritating as it starts to clump up and stick to everything the instant it is exposed to air. I realize that's just a personal thing though.

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I probably only made a half dozen extract batches before going AG, but I don't remember ever having any problem with DME. I was using kits though, so it was just 'pour it all in'

One way to remember the conversion factor is to remember that LME is 20% water. So you need 20% less DME than LME.

Also, from what I have seen on these forums it seems that for color and scorching reasons people prefer DME to LME.

cell said:

I'm bringing back this old thread because I have a similar question;

Why some people adds both LME and DME in the same recipe?

Click to expand...

If you're trying to reach a particular gravity, it's easier to incrementally measure DME than LME. LME generally comes in tins (3.3 lbs) and other packaging like 3 or 6 lbs. It's easier to measure, say, 1.75 lbs DME than LME.

If you see a recipe calling for, say, 6 lbs of LME and .5 lbs DME, and the OG is 1.048, that's why - 6 lbs of LME isn't enough to reach that OG.

Bob

Thread by me (in a former life) on DME vs. LME and extract twang.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f37/possible-extract-twang-explanation-32621/

I agree that if your options are between canned LME and packaged DME you're better off with DME. But if you can get bulk LME at your LHBS it's hard to argue with the cost.

The last beer I brewed (All Amarillo IPA) called for 7 pounds of DME, which would have cost me $24. I used 9 pounds of bulk LME instead which cost $17.50. The color is darker than I'd like, but it still tastes good.

If I find a recipe that calls for LME and DME I just convert it all to LME and buy what I need in bulk.

DeathBrewer said:

lol, i think it's like this:

lme < DME < AG

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Sadly, another misinformed opinion here. A good brewer can make excellent beer with any of those three options. There are far too many AG snobs perpetuating myths like this.

No ****, I make a partial mash batch or extract batches just about every week and some of them, including my dunkelweizen, are my best beers.

But you ABSOLUTELY DO NOT have the versatility you do with all-grain. There are certain beers you cannot make with extract. There are certain grains you can't use. You can't adjust mash temperature to give different flavors, dextrins, drier beers, etc. You can't first wort hop or use mash hops. The list goes on and on.

Sure, there are tricks extract brewers can use to emulate certain things, but it's simply not the same thing.

I didn't say that all-grain always made better beer. I said that all-grain was BETTER (actually I was just visually having fun.) This is due to many reasons and is, of course, subjective.

Misinformed my ass...I only speak from experience, there is far too much incorrect information out there, alot of it printed and widely distributed, not to mention the rambling that goes on in internet forums.

You want to call people names, you better get your facts straight on what they represent. Don't assume that anyone said "you can't make good beer with extract", either...you obviously read far too much into a little joke.

When it comes down to it, there are limits with extract. There are no limits with all-grain.

carl spakler said:

Sadly, another misinformed opinion here. A good brewer can make excellent beer with any of those three options. There are far too many AG snobs perpetuating myths like this.

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Extract brews win competitions all the time...

Sorry Carl, but you're out in left field here. DeathBrewer is an avid brewer and is wonderful about sharing his experience/knowledge regarding all types of brewing. He is by no means an AG snob. Always look before you leap or, as in this case, refer to DB as an AG snob.

NQ3X said:

If you ask me, it's about ease of use.

It's a lot simpler to portion out fractions of a package of DME - every try to get a half-pound of LME out of a Munton's tin? You can just snip the corner of a DME bag and tap out enough powder into a bowl.

Liquid yields also less fermentable product per pound than dry, if your storage space is limited.

Finally, liquid extracts don't have anywhere near the shelf life of dry.

According to Palmer:

The freshness of the extract is important, particularly for the syrup. Beer brewed with extract syrup more than a year old will often have a blunt, stale, even soapy flavor to it. This is caused by the oxidation of the fatty acid compounds in the malt. Dry malt extract has a better shelf life than the liquid because the extra de-hydration slows the pertinent chemical reactions. *​

I prefer dry simply because of ease of use, but that paragraph should give syrup users pause. Many LHBSs don't turn over enough inventory to avoid long shelf storage; make sure you check the package carefully.

* HowToBrew.com Chapter Three.

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ON the shelf life aspect I am no expert but I recently made a porter with 4 year old extract that was part of a Williams Brewing Kit that I got as a part of a CL score


Damn you Extract Brewing Snobs!!!! You go squish now...lol

FWIW, I got 55# of light DME for $100 during a group grain buy.

If anyone's interested, this has an interesting take on DME... basically their view is you shouldn't worry too much about the extract and make up the flavour profile using your steeping grains/partial mash. The article is about converting recipes but the first part talks about flavour:

All Grain to Extract Conversion | Brew Dudes

The precise measurement that I've found is 17%, not 20%. But unless you're using the metric system, that could get intensely confusing. 20% is fine for all intents and purposes.

As to preference, I like LME since I get it fresh and in bulk from the LHBS. If my options were canned LME or purchasing online, I would go with DME.

hope2perc said:

Sorry Carl, but you're out in left field here. DeathBrewer is an avid brewer and is wonderful about sharing his experience/knowledge regarding all types of brewing. He is by no means an AG snob. Always look before you leap or, as in this case, refer to DB as an AG snob.

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Avid brewer doesn't mean a damn thing when he throws out inaccurate statements like that. I don't care if you work for a brewery, you don't get a free pass on spreading misinformation because you brew often.

Generally speaking I think you'll find most brewers would agree that AG brewing gives greater versatility and generally better results than extract brewing.
That's for many reasons not at least that there are lots of extract brewers that have not got the understanding and experience of an AG brewer.
I don't think any one is suggesting a good extract brew can be better than mediocre AG brew.
It's like the difference of cooking with fresh produce and pre pre paired packaged goods.

Carl, you may want to chill a little. You can disagree with people and give your opinion with out name calling. You are coming across a bit aggressive.

Orfy said:

Generally speaking I think you'll find most brewers would agree that AG brewing gives greater versatility and generally better results than extract brewing.
That's for many reasons not at least that there are lots of extract brewers that have not got the understanding and experience of an AG brewer.
I don't think any one is suggesting a good extract brew can be better than mediocre AG brew.
It's like the difference of cooking with fresh produce and pre pre paired packaged goods.

Carl, you may want to chill a little. You can disagree with people and give your opinion with out name calling. You are coming across a bit aggressive.

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Generally speaking you'd be 1/2 right and 1/2 wrong. AG does give more recipe options, but to say categorically AG produces better beer is flat out wrong. Inexperience is the key, you even say so! If no one else will, at least you should listen to yourself.

so, pointing out misinformation is name calling?

No but calling them an AG Snob is.
Along with the attitude it comes across like a personal attack. (Not allowed) Open debate and stating opinions is.

My opinion is that AG brewing is generally more likely to produce better beer than Extract brewing for multiple reasons.
I also consider this to be the manner in which DB posted. I'd go further than saying DB is an avid brewer, I'd consider him to be an experienced brewer.

You can't say that I'm wrong because it's my opinion, I'm not saying it is a fact.

Orfy said:

You can't say that I'm wrong because it's my opinion, I'm not saying it is a fact.

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Wow...

Let's not cloud our opinion with information!

carl spakler said:

Wow...

Let's not cloud our opinion with information!

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Our opinion is our opinion, and I don't see yours overloaded with "facts" either. Arguing over something so ridiculous (what is it that you are arguing anyway?) ruins the technical aspects of the thread. You're arguing over whether or not Orfy believes that AG is more likely to produce better beer in his opinion?

Please take your arguments out of the technical threads, and into private messages.

The topic is DME vs. LME. Let's get back there. If you don't have anything to add, feel free to move on to another thread.

Quite right.

That's an area I don't have enough experience in to help.

I've only made a few extract brews and they have all been LME.
In fact I made a couple of LME kits a bit back and they both turned out drinkable with a little ageing.

I always love jumping into the periodic "LME vs. DME" thread and mentioning that I am one of those who prefers LME, basically for exactly the same reason that people prefer DME. I prefer handling and managing it. For my process, it's just easier.

The often-cited consensus of regular posters and experienced brewers for DME is not unanimous.

hope2perc said:

Sorry Carl, but you're out in left field here. DeathBrewer is an avid brewer and is wonderful about sharing his experience/knowledge regarding all types of brewing. He is by no means an AG snob. Always look before you leap or, as in this case, refer to DB as an AG snob.

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Is there something wrong with being a snob if most people deem you right?
I happen to think AG is cheaper, but I have never brewed AG.
When I buy for a brew, the pricing order tends to go AG<LME<DME.
I suppose the price is dependent on the grain also.



DME is easier for me, as long as I add it before boil. Clumping sucks, but it goes away fast. I got a layer of burn from LME, even adding it to a boil. When I wash out my container, I feel like my beer will turn out weak -- simply because the residual LME.

I buy bulk lme 33# and as long as I seal btw uses. As long as I use it in under 6mos I have never seen a difference. It would probably be good a lot longer then that.

jordnthoms said:

DME is easier for me, as long as I add it before boil. Clumping sucks, but it goes away fast. I got a layer of burn from LME, even adding it to a boil. When I wash out my container, I feel like my beer will turn out weak -- simply because the residual LME.

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I've never had a problem with the LME burning to the pot, but getting all of the liquid out of the can is damn near impossible. I use a rubber spreader to scrape the last bit out, and use hot water in the can to get the rest, but no matter what there always seems to be a little left in there.

I have never used DME but I imagine some people might lose some of the dust, or it clumps together, or to the bag, similar to adjuncts, once they are near steaming water.. This could be avoided by putting it in a measuring cup and being dipped directly into the pot and swirled? I dunno maybe I will try DME if its cheaper. There is definitely more selection of it at my LHBS