Imperial Stout (with variants). Seeking advice.

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tbrown4

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I've got about 5 batches under my belt on my own. I've been wanting to brew a big stout. Would like to get this one brewed soon so it can sit for several months. Maybe be ready mid to late winter.

For secondary I'd like to split and do a few variants. Definitely a whiskey oak version. Maybe a vanilla whiskey oak version. Maybe chocolate, no oak. I've got some decent bourbon and rye whiskey on hand as well as white oak and french oak chips. I think I can find vanilla beans, havent gone out to look yet. I've got about 3 oz of chinook pellets sitting here that I need to use. I also have 16 lbs of palisade, a pro-brewer buddy gave them to me as kind of a joke. I don't know anything about palisade so I'm not sure if this would be ideal for a big stout. For now, the recipe doesn't have them in it. I could also get some decent cocoa nibs.

I'd like a nice rich mouth feel, straight up inky black in color, fine tan head with good retention. I want it to have a rich complex multi-dimensional malt character. I don't want it to be overly hoppy, but definitely have some hop character. The big stouts I like vary greatly. I love OB Ten Fidy, FFF Dark Lord and DFH Worldwide Stout. I sometimes like the coffee stouts, really loved the BCS Coffee. I'm absolutely in love with Heavy Seas Siren Noire because of the milk chocolate character. I like them not TOO sweet, but also not too dry.

For the whiskey oak version I'd like to simulate the bourbon barrel aged production beers. Hints of bourbon, vanilla, some earthyness and nice rounded roasty flavors. Just for fun I want to add a vanilla bean to a small batch of this as well.

So here's the base recipe I started. What can I do here to tweak this? As far as bourbon oak, how much oak (relative to a full 5 gallon batch) and bourbon should I use? If I were to do a chocolate version, how do I go about that addition?

Size: 5.00*gal

Original Gravity: 1.101 (1.000 - 1.100)
Terminal Gravity: 1.025 (1.000 - 1.100)
Color: 32.07 (0.0 - 50.0)
Alcohol: 10.05% (0.0% - 10.0%)
Bitterness: 55.7 (0.0 - 50.0)

Ingredients:
0.5*lb Dextrine Malt (steep)
0.5*lb Black Malt (steep)
1.0*lb Chocolate Malt (steep)
1.0*lb Crystal Malt 80°L (steep)
10.0*lb Dry Light Extract (boil)
1.0*oz Chinook (13.0%) - added during boil, boiled 60*m
1.0*oz Willamette (5.0%) - added during boil, boiled 10.0*m
1.0*ea WYeast 1056 American Ale™

Thanks for any input and help!
 
If it were me I'd replace half of the chocolate malt with roasted barley. Or you could leave all the chocolate and just add 8oz roasted. I really wouldn't make any other changes, looks like a damn good recipe to me!
 
Looks pretty good. For you chocolate variation try 1/4 lb of nib/husk grind in secondary for about 2 weeks. I used 1/2 ld in my 5 gallon batch for 2 weeks and got a real nice chocolate backbone. Not too sweet just chocolatey.
 
You may be able to do without much of the black malt and crystal80 if you used dark lme or DME. That would save you a few bucks and you could replace those steeping grains for some roasted barley and/or special b. My RIS I brewed I used 15.3lbs of dark lme some other steeping grains and added 4oz bakers chocolate to it. It's chocolate and has a thick, heavy body like BCS. I'm gonna tweak this recipe more to see if I can get closer to BCS.

I have not tasted the half that I aged on bourbon and oak.
 
Thanks for all the feedback folks!

You may be able to do without much of the black malt and crystal80 if you used dark lme or DME. That would save you a few bucks and you could replace those steeping grains for some roasted barley and/or special b. My RIS I brewed I used 15.3lbs of dark lme some other steeping grains and added 4oz bakers chocolate to it. It's chocolate and has a thick, heavy body like BCS. I'm gonna tweak this recipe more to see if I can get closer to BCS.

I have not tasted the half that I aged on bourbon and oak.

Mind sharing your recipe?
 
If it were me I'd replace half of the chocolate malt with roasted barley. Or you could leave all the chocolate and just add 8oz roasted. I really wouldn't make any other changes, looks like a damn good recipe to me!

Ok, swapped out half of the chocolate and added roasted barley. Makes sense. Not sure why I didn't consider using roasted barley.

Looks pretty good. For you chocolate variation try 1/4 lb of nib/husk grind in secondary for about 2 weeks. I used 1/2 ld in my 5 gallon batch for 2 weeks and got a real nice chocolate backbone. Not too sweet just chocolatey.

Ok, that sounds good.

You may be able to do without much of the black malt and crystal80 if you used dark lme or DME. That would save you a few bucks and you could replace those steeping grains for some roasted barley and/or special b. My RIS I brewed I used 15.3lbs of dark lme some other steeping grains and added 4oz bakers chocolate to it. It's chocolate and has a thick, heavy body like BCS. I'm gonna tweak this recipe more to see if I can get closer to BCS.

I have not tasted the half that I aged on bourbon and oak.

I took out the crystal and swapped out the light DME for dark DME. I've read some recipes that call for a late addition for half the DME. What would this do for me?

Here's the tweaked recipe. Any other suggestions?

Original Gravity: 1.107 (1.000 - 1.100)
Terminal Gravity: 1.027 (1.000 - 1.100)
Color: 36.73 (0.0 - 50.0)
Alcohol: 10.74% (0.0% - 10.0%)
Bitterness: 55.7 (0.0 - 50.0)

Ingredients:
0.5*lb Dextrine Malt
0.5*lb Black Malt
0.5*lb Chocolate Malt
0.5*lb Roasted Barley
12.0*lb CBW® Traditional Dark Powder (Dry Malt Extract)
1.0*oz Chinook (13.0%) - added during boil, boiled 60*m
1.0*oz Willamette (5.0%) - added during boil, boiled 10.0*m
1.0*ea WYeast 1056 American Ale™
 
The thing about using dark extract is it already contains dark malts in it, only you don't know which ones or how much (unless the manufacturer tells you). So then you add more dark malts (your steeping grains) and end up doubling up on some of them and getting too much, especially if you use ALL dark extract.

I think the way you had it before with the light extract is a better idea since you're adding your own specialty grains and knowing what they are instead of relying on whatever the extract maker put in their dark extract.
If anything, maybe just use a little dark extract? like 3lbs and the rest light extract?
 
The thing about using dark extract is it already contains dark malts in it, only you don't know which ones or how much (unless the manufacturer tells you). So then you add more dark malts (your steeping grains) and end up doubling up on some of them and getting too much, especially if you use ALL dark extract.

I think the way you had it before with the light extract is a better idea since you're adding your own specialty grains and knowing what they are instead of relying on whatever the extract maker put in their dark extract.
If anything, maybe just use a little dark extract? like 3lbs and the rest light extract?

Ok. That all makes perfect sense. Thanks!
 
I have a recipe in the extract forum. I just had another bottle, and its turning out great after only a little over a month. Just a few weeks ago the oak was more apparent, but its selling down. The vanilla is coming out,.and it looks like this is going to be a great beer in a few months.
That being said, as long as you have roasted barely, choc malts, you should be good. I also had black malt, and I added some molasses.
This was my second, so you should be good. RIS are such good beers. Hurry up on it, these take a while to age, that's why I had to hurry up and get it brewed in June. But even a little young these will be good, even better aged. Ferment a month and then plan the secondary right for your extra additions.

Btw, you have only 2 oz of hops, you can get away with doubling that. I used 5 oz.
Half the dme at the beginning, and half at the end is good. It'll get dark with the roasted barely and choc malts, so you can get away with amber/golden extract, our even light extract.
 
I added .5lb to my stout and to my porter. The bad news is I don't have a non special b batch to compare it too.

I do like my stout, and so does my wife. It has a ton of body, it's very thick. It has quite a bit of malty sweetness and chocolate with some dark chocolate bitterness to it. However, I fermented a tad warm and over pitched my yeast, so now I am waiting for some of the fusel alcohols to go away and the overall flavor to mellow. I think the chocolate dominates the special b.
 
How did you like the special B in there? I've been thinking about trying it in a stout but haven't yet...

I added .5lb to my stout and to my porter. The bad news is I don't have a non special b batch to compare it too.

I do like my stout, and so does my wife. It has a ton of body, it's very thick. It has quite a bit of malty sweetness and chocolate with some dark chocolate bitterness to it. However, I fermented a tad warm and over pitched my yeast, so now I am waiting for some of the fusel alcohols to go away and the overall flavor to mellow. I think the chocolate dominates the special b.

So what is this "special b" you speak of?

What do you think helped with the body? That's something I definitely want in my stout.

I used northern brewers RIS kit, added 3.15lb dark LME, .5lb special B, and 4oz bakers chocolate.

Thanks! That would certainly be a good jumping point. My IPA started with a NB kit with added DME and completely different hops.

Btw, you have only 2 oz of hops, you can get away with doubling that. I used 5 oz.
Half the dme at the beginning, and half at the end is good. It'll get dark with the roasted barely and choc malts, so you can get away with amber/golden extract, our even light extract.

This was intentional. I don't want there to be much of a hop presence. I want just enough to have it balanced. I generally prefer my dark beers to not be overly hoppy.

No, 2 oz is of course a minimum. It's calculated to be about 55 IBUs, which seems like it'd be fairly well balanced for the OG. But I guess it's the perceived bitterness that really counts.
 
Also, about the late addition for DME. What is the advantage to splitting and doing a late addition? How would it benefit my beer?
 
tbrown4 said:
Also, about the late addition for DME. What is the advantage to splitting and doing a late addition? How would it benefit my beer?

I just did it because all that lme/dme , less chance of a burn I figured. You can do all at the beginning. I just split all my additions now.
 
Brewing this on Monday. Should I up the dextrine to more than 0.5#? Or is that enough to give decent body and head retention?
 
Brewing this on Monday. Should I up the dextrine to more than 0.5#? Or is that enough to give decent body and head retention?

I wouldn't add more, you'll get plenty of body from the gravity of the brew itself. (higher OG --> higher FG)
 
Brew day went well. Upped the Chinook to 1.5 oz, and moved the Willamette to 5mins. Everything else stayed the same. Looks, smells (and tastes) great:)
 
Soaked 1 oz oak chips in 180ml of.bourbon. gonna let it sit for a few weeks, then in to half of this batch for secondary.
 
Checking in, it's been some time. This stout ended up sitting in secondary for quite some time before bottling. Now it's been bottled about a month or so. Sadly, it doesn't seem to have carbonated at all. I'm thinking that it may have something to do with the high gravity and ABV, topped out around 11.7%.

This is not a total waste, because..well...stouts are still decent with little to no carb. The flavors are kind of what I was aiming for. Is there any way to finish these bottles off with some viable yeast and recap them?

Any suggestions are welcome!
 
Is there any way to finish these bottles off with some viable yeast and recap them?

I did this with success once on a Bell's Two-Hearted Clone. I definitely wanted some bite from carbonation on it, and it had failed to carb up on its own.

I just uncapped, sprinkled just a tad of S-05 in each, and then recapped.

Just be sure to sanitize the new caps, your bottle opener, yada yada yada.
 
Also, I'm no expert on the 1056 American Ale yeast, but how alcohol tolerant is it?

And what was your FG? Did you measure?
 
An 11.7% stout will take awhile to carb if you didn't add any fresh yeast at bottling. My recommendation is to do nothing at all. I bet they will carb given a 65-70F environment and a few extra months. The extra time in the bottle will take the edge of this massive brew and taste better anyway.

I brewed a 12% RIS back in April, and I've drank exactly 1 beer so far. It did carb after 4 weeks, but I added some fresh yeast at bottling. I have my second bottle in the fridge for the next few weeks to enjoy after Christmas. But the bulk of these will be enjoyed this spring and next winter.
 
My RIS has been in the bottles for 4 months, and it still has almost no head, but it has some carbonation, but its perfect for the style. My RIS is right around 12% also. Good Stuff, now put that stuff away for a few months, if you can.
 
@sweed & tbrown4. The second half of my RIS that I secondaried on oak and whiskey didn't carb either even after waiting a few months. I used champagne yeast (it's a dollar!), which is alcohol tolerant to 20% give or take. It had no problems carbing up after I put a mL of the rehydrated EC1118 into each bottle. I'm actually glad these didn't carb, because I would have had them drank by now if they had. I drank my first bottle last night, about 9-10mo after brewing, and it's fantastic!
 
looneybomber....thank you! this is exactly what I was looking to do. Went to the LHBS this afternoon to get some random supplies for brewing this weekend and grabbed a few packages of EC-1118. Much appreciated!
 
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