Bringing a cold keg to room temp and using a jockey box

Hey everybody.

I was looking for a solution to bring my kegs to the lake and decided to build a jockey box. Used 50' of 3/8" SS coil. Finished it up last night and tested it today.

I have two kegs, a wheat and a saison, which were in my converted kegerator at 40 degrees and 13PSI for awhile. Both were carbonated perfectly. I took the kegs out of the kegerator last night to bring them to room temp, as they will be sitting outside while at the lake. They were in the basement overnight which holds steady in the mid-60's.

When I tested today I noticed a few things. 1) The kegs seemed to have very low carb. I tested the Saison first. Before testing the wheat I had put the regulator on it and found that it had crept up to about 19 PSI. I am assuming that the rising temp caused the co2 to escape. 2) Dispensing from the jockey box caused a bit of foam, about half the glass was foam (serving at about 10PSI).

So, how do we keep kegs properly carbed after removing them from the kegerator? Also, am I doing something wrong with my jockey box?

Any suggestions are appreciated! Prost!

Hi

Simple answers:

1) keep the kegs cold.

2) set up for high pressure on the kegs (like 30 psi). That's going to take a lot of beer line on the faucet.

Bob

Thanks Bob.

Kegs are going to be tough to keep cold for a few days, would need a lot of ice.....no fridge space for kegs at the lake. That's the reason for the jockey box.

We plan on killing the kegs in one day/night up there. Was hoping that a (warm) carbed keg, a jockey box, and a keg charger (don't want to lug the co2/reg) would be the answer.

I've always wondered: as the jockey box is designed to cool the beer before it gets to the glass, do the kegs actually need to be cold? If you can already cool the kegs, I just wonder why you'd need a jockey box at all over a picnic tap.

That is the benefit of the jockey box. You do not need to keep the kegs cold and you can serve cold beer.

I'm thinking that next time I take a keg out of the fridge I will need to crank the co2 to 30-35 PSI. This should keep the co2 from releasing out of the beer. Then when ready to serve I'll bleed off the pressure and connect the co2 charger. Give it a couple shots until proper serving pressure reached.

Thoughts?

wi_brewer said:

That is the benefit of the jockey box. You do not need to keep the kegs cold and you can serve cold beer.

I'm thinking that next time I take a keg out of the fridge I will need to crank the co2 to 30-35 PSI. This should keep the co2 from releasing out of the beer. Then when ready to serve I'll bleed off the pressure and connect the co2 charger. Give it a couple shots until proper serving pressure reached.

Thoughts?

Click to expand...

The basic math used for balancing a serving system doesn't change with a jockey box. Use a CO2 chart for the vols/temp to get the pressure, then the pressure to determine the line length needed- that is what your reg will be set at and your line length will be (as a starting point).

Too little pressure will cause the CO2 to come out of suspension in the warm (first) parts of the coils when serving (English translation- foam in the lines). Under normal party serving conditions, the CO2 will not recombine into the beer, and the foam will not turn back into liquid as it travels through the colder sections of coil.

Most coil jockey box directions do not recommend letting the kegs go above 70F, as pressures and general physics become problematic. Plate boxes recommend <50F.

You will use a considerable amount of ice in bringing the beer to drinking temps, roughly the same amount that it would take the chill the keg down to the same temp- think about it. The only thing a jockey box would save in your scenario is not having to maintain the temp until it kicks, but unless fresh ice is available at the remote location, you will have to maintain the ice needed for the jockey box which is even harder than maintaining serving temps.

One issue is finding something large enough to use as a cold box for storing the kegs, but there are more than a few solutions.

In summary, jockey boxes are a PITA and usually not a viable solution to most serving scenarios. Find a way to keep the keg cold.

Hi

100 quart coolers aren't all that expensive. They hold a corny keg, or 1/6 bbl commercial keg and a bunch of ice. Ran a keg about 4 hours down the road with one last week. Got there nice and cold.

Even if you buy the cooler new, it'll cost less than a 1/6 of commercial beer.

Bob

carlisle_bob said:

Hi

100 quart coolers aren't all that expensive. They hold a corny keg, or 1/6 bbl commercial keg and a bunch of ice. Ran a keg about 4 hours down the road with one last week. Got there nice and cold.

Even if you buy the cooler new, it'll cost less than a 1/6 of commercial beer.

Bob

Click to expand...

Thank you, after hours of googling I finally found someone with the same thought as me.

My question / thought is this: instead of worrying about coils or plates and hauling around a cooler + kegs + Co2 + ect ... why not just get a cooler big enough to put the keg INSIDE of it, covered in ice water? This seems like such a simple solution that when I started looking around at portable coolers I was shocked to find out that this wasn't how it was done, and that instead, coils and plates were used.

Is there an issue I'm not thinking about regarding putting a keg inside the cooler and covering it with ice water? Granted the weight of the cooler will be much heavier, but if you leave it on the tailgate you don't really have to worry about weight ... and besides if an event warrants a portable cooler then you should have plenty of friends around to help you carry. Better yet, put it on wheels!!

ajandrs said:

Thank you, after hours of googling I finally found someone with the same thought as me.

My question / thought is this: instead of worrying about coils or plates and hauling around a cooler + kegs + Co2 + ect ... why not just get a cooler big enough to put the keg INSIDE of it, covered in ice water? This seems like such a simple solution that when I started looking around at portable coolers I was shocked to find out that this wasn't how it was done, and that instead, coils and plates were used.

Is there an issue I'm not thinking about regarding putting a keg inside the cooler and covering it with ice water? Granted the weight of the cooler will be much heavier, but if you leave it on the tailgate you don't really have to worry about weight ... and besides if an event warrants a portable cooler then you should have plenty of friends around to help you carry. Better yet, put it on wheels!!

Click to expand...

You can't serve a keg on its side, at least not the whole thing (unless you custom bend the dip tube).
The keg can warm fairly quickly depending on ambient, and will require rebalancing at some point.
There aren't any cheap coolers that I know of that will cover an upright corny, slim 1/6th, or slim 1/4.
Some use a DIY corny sized cooler made by spray foaming between two nested tall trash cans, or any similar containers that are appropriately sized

For the commercial guys, they use the coil jockey boxes for inside venues where they can guarantee ~72f or less for the kegs. They only need one small cooler with an ice bath for the coils (the jockey box), and the rest of the kegs can be in the open at room temp. They can still be a PITA to deal with, and the useable temp range tops out not far above ~70F.

Thanks for the reply CWI! The dip tube was the only consideration I could think of as well. I thought about fabbing up some kind of shallow ramp inside the cooler to keep the beer at the bottom of the tank...with the dip tube at the bottom obviously. Doing this may not allow you to completely kill a keg, but should get you pretty close I would think? Something to keep me thinking at least until next spring when I actually build it!

ajandrs said:

Thanks for the reply CWI! The dip tube was the only consideration I could think of as well. I thought about fabbing up some kind of shallow ramp inside the cooler to keep the beer at the bottom of the tank...with the dip tube at the bottom obviously. Doing this may not allow you to completely kill a keg, but should get you pretty close I would think? Something to keep me thinking at least until next spring when I actually build it!

Click to expand...

I am sure some there is a way to make serving a keg horizontally work, but it seems like it adds complexity. Instead of trying to make serving horizontally work, using 2 tall small diameter containers and spraying foam between the two seems like a better and simpler solution. I am sure there is something out there that is the proper size and fairly cheap. A second small bucket inside to hold ice to keep the beer line and shank cold and above the keg will help reduce foam.

Having the line spiral upwards seems to help when things aren't completely balanced, or the keg/reg pressures aren't matched exactly, since the CO2 that breaks out finds its way up to the shank between pours. Otherwise, the gas finds various high spots and causes foaming on the next pour until new beer forces it all out.

Wouldn't you also risk getting beer trickling up into the gas line by serving a keg on its side? Not really a deal-breaker if you have a check valve, but still ... now you have one more hose and valve to clean and sanitize when you get home.

kombat said:

Wouldn't you also risk getting beer trickling up into the gas line by serving a keg on its side? Not really a deal-breaker if you have a check valve, but still ... now you have one more hose and valve to clean and sanitize when you get home.

Click to expand...

Yes, but the beer would only travel up the line to its level in the keg, unless there were a keg overpressure 'event' to push it past that.

RE: check valves- I have found them to only be useful for momentary events when the keg pressure is much higher than the reg line (like when first attaching to a keg). Whether gas, or beer in the gas line, during a constant pressure diff scenario the check valves allow bleed through. They just aren't that precisely made.

It seems to me that if you're going to kill these in one day/night icing shouldn't be a big deal. Lay your hands on one of those half barrel type coolers (you know, like you see commercial kegs placed in with ice) throw your already refrigerated cornies in there and ice them down. The fact that the whole corny isn't covered in ice shouldn't matter; cover the upper part by wrapping a furniture blanket around the top to insulate the upper part of the kegs AND cover the ice, leaving the top of the kegs exposed for serving.

paddy1998 said:

It seems to me that if you're going to kill these in one day/night icing shouldn't be a big deal. Lay your hands on one of those half barrel type coolers (you know, like you see commercial kegs placed in with ice) throw your already refrigerated cornies in there and ice them down. The fact that the whole corny isn't covered in ice shouldn't matter; cover the upper part by wrapping a furniture blanket around the top to insulate the upper part of the kegs AND cover the ice, leaving the top of the kegs exposed for serving.

Click to expand...

The OPs issue was that they were going to be unable to refrigerate them for 3 days prior to tapping.

The insulated keg tub will work, I was just recommending a scaled down version to reduce the initial ice quantity. Icing up to the liquid level and keeping the beer line cold can make a difference. Otherwise the pressure has to be fiddled with to keep foaming in check.

A major flaw in the OP's premise was not realizing that it takes at least the same amount of ice to chill a keg through a jockey box, as it does to chill the whole keg and keep it chilled for the duration of serving. Usually the jockey box will require much more ice.

The only way the jockey box makes sense is if you don't have a way to keep the keg on ice in a serving position.