Single Tier, 3 Pump, BCS-462, Automated Rig
- Thread starter JonW
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OP
OP
There's not a simple answer for this. Do you include the $275 for the 20 inch 1920x1080 touchscreen? Do I calculate the cost of two Blichmans at the Craiglist price I paid or full value? I hunted around and got a lot of good deals on parts and had parts from my old rig that I sold to offset costs, so my investment is not that easy to measure.
I did create a spreadsheet for all the parts though to see what it would cost if you had to build it from scratch with all new, full price parts. That number is just north of $5500. I'm into it about half of that.
Wow, very nice. It certainly is one of the nicest rigs I've seen. Wish I had the dough to go completely automated like that with the rig I'm building now, but we're probably going to skip the computer controlled at this point.
Out of curiosity, what are the main advantages to going with 3 pumps like you have instead of 2?
Out of curiosity, what are the main advantages to going with 3 pumps like you have instead of 2?
OP
OP
Mostly for doing simultaneous batches. Probably about 1 in 3 of my brew sessions are double batches and 3 pumps allows me to start a second batch in the mash tun while I'm still boiling in the BK. It also simplifies plumbing. When you're doing a fairly automated setup, the cost of an extra pump is a small added expense.
eeebigeee
Well-Known Member
not sure if you posted this already. i've read this thread 10 times so I can't remember.
do your 1/2 ball valves have the manual override? they are running 110v?
mind posting your spreadsheet breakdown? I'm about halfway there....
do your 1/2 ball valves have the manual override? they are running 110v?
mind posting your spreadsheet breakdown? I'm about halfway there....
OP
OP
eeebigeee said:
Yes, the valves can be operated manually, but thy are a PIA to do that. They are 12v and operated through a relay board. I'll see about posting the sheet.
armageddon
Member
Could you post up a schematic for how you wired up your bbq igniter to an SSR. I'm about ready to pull the trigger on a BCS system and would like to figure this part out. All of the igniters that I've looked at run off of a single battery (1.5V) and the regular SSR's that Embedded Control Concepts sell look like they have a minimum 3V for the load side. What's the trick?
OP
OP
I used this SSR IC: http://www.futurlec.com/Relays/SSR3A48D05pr.shtml
I bought an AA battery holder to put the battery external to the igniter and then soldered wires into the igniter so it could be controlled by the SSR. Sorry I don't have any pics or a schematic of it.
I bought an AA battery holder to put the battery external to the igniter and then soldered wires into the igniter so it could be controlled by the SSR. Sorry I don't have any pics or a schematic of it.
armageddon
Member
Perfect. That was all I needed, thanks. 
Thinking about the BCS 462. Right now we are 100% manual and once I get our new Stout HLT with HERMS and Stout Brew Kettle, we will be doing double batches. We will likely be using our old igloo MLT to do the small second 10 gallon batch. We like the idea of controlling my fermenter freezers remotely. We will likely use both gas and electric for heating. We will likely control the HERMS water with a RIMS type tube.
As a side, we use three pumps currently. Although only two are used at a time, we really like having 3 as it simplifies plumbing connections on brew day. It also speeds up clean up. We use one for nothing but hot water.
Could you supply more pix and information on your tippy MLT. We are in the process of engineering something like yours. We had come up with the idea of a hinged plate below our MLT that had anchors to chain down the MLT (it is a Stout 45 Gallon one that has handles that are 90 degrees to the outlet. I like the idea of your pipes as that may provide some support. We can use a plate on the bottom because we do not directly heat the MLT but currently use a counter flow chiller as a HERMS.
As a side, we use three pumps currently. Although only two are used at a time, we really like having 3 as it simplifies plumbing connections on brew day. It also speeds up clean up. We use one for nothing but hot water.
Could you supply more pix and information on your tippy MLT. We are in the process of engineering something like yours. We had come up with the idea of a hinged plate below our MLT that had anchors to chain down the MLT (it is a Stout 45 Gallon one that has handles that are 90 degrees to the outlet. I like the idea of your pipes as that may provide some support. We can use a plate on the bottom because we do not directly heat the MLT but currently use a counter flow chiller as a HERMS.
OP
OP
I have a separate thread for the tippy dump:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/tippy-dump-blichmann-mash-tun-266852/
richbrew99
Well-Known Member
Subscribed for the bcs stuff, gotta get this stuff.
bellinmi88
Well-Known Member
who makes those electric valves? can you post a parts list for those components?
D@mn nice build!
OP
OP
The customized GUI thread has been updated with file downloads for doing the customization yourself. See link to thread in my signature.
The valves are from KLD. The folks at OSCSYS.com usually have them. http://www.oscsys.com/1-2-2-Way-Motorized-Ball-Valve-with-Manual-Override.html
Thank you!
OneHoppyGuy
Well-Known Member
Giving Honor where Honor is due...
Brew stand build based on the JonW single tier
Brew stand build based on the JonW single tier
Mike3701
Well-Known Member
Do the thermoplastic hose hold the pressure when you restrict the valve at the top of the kettle?
OP
OP
Yes, they hold the pressure fine - with no clamps used. The Chugger & March pumps put out very little pressure.
I have to say this is one awesome single tier. Im planning my own brew stand and will most likely be using some of your design. Hope you don't mind. On that note, i have a question about your plate chiller. I understand your current configuration allows you to recirculate back into the brew kettle until you get to pitching temp. However, do you just run tap water through the non-wort side? Does it chill quickly or do you somehow run ice water through the non-wort side while recirculating? I appreciate any response. Thanks!
OP
OP
Yes, I just use tap water from the hose. I get down to about 73-74 that way and then put my fermenter (sanke keg) inside a kegerator and it's down to 66-68 for pitching in an hour or so.
I once used an immersion chiller coil in a bucket with ice to run my water through that first, then into the plate chiller. I waited until the wort temp hit the low-mid 70's, then loaded ice into the bucket. This got it straight to pitching temp level, but after trying that, I figured waiting an hour or so in the kegerator/fermenter was a lot easier.
Your ground water is likely not as warm as mine, so the plate chiller will probably get you even lower.
Kyled93
Well-Known Member
JonW said:
Jon,
I'm in the same boat as you per-say with living in Florida. My tap water is close to 80 in the summer and maybe 74 in the winter. That being said, I have a 40 plate chiller and use tap water to knock it down to at least the tap temp. Then I use a few bags of ice with water in my HLT and use my second pump to recirculate through the same side.. This knocks down to pitching temp in no time.
Carlscan26
Well-Known Member
Sweet rig!
Do you recirculate the wort through the chiller or is it a one time pass? I didn't see how it would recirculate from the diagram.
Do you recirculate the wort through the chiller or is it a one time pass? I didn't see how it would recirculate from the diagram.
OP
OP
You can see the wort return (added later) in the updated pic #1 on the first page. This lets me recirculate back into the kettle until I get it down low enough to go to the fermenter.
Carlscan26
Well-Known Member
JonW said:
I see it now - thanks.
Jon - I assume you have the BCS trigger the solenoid gas valves and the bbq ignitor's SSR simultaneously, correct? How long does the ignitor stay on? I assume only momentarily. I'm planning to run my solenoid's and bbq ignitors from a control panel version. (ie. turn burner switch and it fires the solenoid and ssr for the ignitor.) Any issues with the ignitor only firing momentarily? Is there a way to make the ignitor fire for a bit of time? Capacitors maybe?
OP
OP
There is a setting in the BCS controller called "Auto Ignition" that can be programmed to fire igniters when the burners come on. My igniters come on for 2 seconds right when the gas valves open. You need a second or two of gas flowing to get them ignited.
Do you mind if I ask how much you paid? Im looking on cloning your rig.....
Also, on their site, how do you get a quote?
I got ahold of the company in china. I was quoted ~$39.00 each. I asked for a quote on eight and shipping from china to Ohio was $80. As much as I want them, I'm going to have to go with manual valves for now. FYI, ONE valve from grainger was over 300!
phoenixs4r
Well-Known Member
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calebstringer said:
Grainger's typically only good if you need something NOW or if you have a company account that orders there a lot. Their retail pricing is generally through the roof on all their products.
BryngelBrau
Active Member
http://www.oscsys.com/store/product/294
These work and the shipping is cheaper, might be the same ones but already imported. I went with these on my system.
Jon,
Few more questions. Hope you don't mind...
It looks like what you did was come straight off the SSR to a 3 prong plug and then just plugged the pumps and solenoids directly in like a normal plug. Is that correct? If so, how did you figure wire gauge to handle the load?
Also, I have been reading a lot of your replies on the BCS boards and notice a lot of people talking about relay boards. Can you give a layperson a two second explanation of why a relay board would be of use? I suspect it has to do with having multiple devices 'fire' based off one SSR, but that seems a bit...excessive. I have been a computer programmer for the past 10 years, but other than building PC's I have rarely delved into the world of hardware and I am finding myself a bit out of sorts.
Thanks in advance!
Few more questions. Hope you don't mind...
It looks like what you did was come straight off the SSR to a 3 prong plug and then just plugged the pumps and solenoids directly in like a normal plug. Is that correct? If so, how did you figure wire gauge to handle the load?
Also, I have been reading a lot of your replies on the BCS boards and notice a lot of people talking about relay boards. Can you give a layperson a two second explanation of why a relay board would be of use? I suspect it has to do with having multiple devices 'fire' based off one SSR, but that seems a bit...excessive. I have been a computer programmer for the past 10 years, but other than building PC's I have rarely delved into the world of hardware and I am finding myself a bit out of sorts.
Thanks in advance!
OP
OP
Yes, each SSR under the stand is wired to a set of duplex outlets. There are 6 outlets in total, 3 for the pumps and 3 for the gas solenoid valves.
An SSR is a relay - a Solid State Relay. Being "Solid State", means that it does not have mechanical moving parts. It's actuator can be triggered by a very low input voltage/current. For BCS purposes, SSR's are usually used for high voltage switching.
A relay board on the other hand uses mechanical relays. A mechanical relay usually requires a much higher current to trigger the relay coil. When using a relay board with the BCS, people often use 12 volt relays that have a darlinton transistor for triggering the relay. This allows the relay to be powered from 12 volt, but triggered from 5v. Like an SSR, you can trigger high voltage items from a mechanical relay (like pumps or solenoid valves), but for heating elements, you must use SSR's because of how fast they cycle on and off.
The bottom line on using these types of relays is that the BCS (and most microcontrollers) put out very little current for switching, so you need to use either SSR's or transistor based relays.
Does all that make sense?
Thanks Jon, that helps some. I am still a bit confused on what makes someone choose between an SSR and a relay board. Is it just a matter of preference or is it for systems that are 24V vs. 120VAC. My stand is going to be propane and 120VAC (already bought the ball valves, solenoids, motors, SSR's, and BCS), I am just wondering if I missed or overlooked something. I saw someone on the BCS forum with a great idea of adding a sump pump to pump cold water through the plate chiller and I believe it was a 12V DC motor. I like the idea and might incorporate that into my build, but I only have been eyeballing a 120VAC 'fish pond' pump. I assume that it would just be an SSR and duplex plug, right? I guess I am mostly confused with when and why I would switch from 120VAC to anything else? Feel free to point me to internet sites, I know this is probably pretty basic electronics theory so I am not afraid to RTFM.
Thanks again for your help Jon. You have and continue to be a massive help.
Thanks again for your help Jon. You have and continue to be a massive help.
I know earlier In this thread you said you didn't hav any issues with your pumps priming....I just built a rig with an identical plumbing setup as yours, except I am using manual ball valves, and I'm fighting alot with air pockets and starving the pumps. Any suggestions?
OP
OP
I rarely have any priming issues. Here's what I attribute it to... First, when my processes start, the valves open and the BCS is set to wait 5 seconds before firing the pumps. This allows some time for the air to burp through the system. The second thing I do is I generally don't attach the hoses on the inside of the kettles until after the pump fires and starts recirculating. I then just shut the valve at the top of the kettles briefly while the pump is running to attach the hose. If you don't do this, then the air can't burp out.
While I have yet to get my BCS, I prime my pumps with water from on of the hose water. I simply connect a garden hose (drinkwater quailty and hook up to the out let and flow water backwards into my BK, and HLT as well as our MLT. Not a lot and low pressure, but we do get rid of all the air in the pumps and lines. I later recycle either hot water or Hot Wort so there is no worry about contamination.
Any chance we could get a pic of the IC you built for the ignitors? I think I am going to go this route rather than the Honeywell approach for now (if I find that the BCS occasionally misses I will switch at least my MLT to a
Honeywell since it will fire frequently).
allclene
Beer, What a beautiful thing
Was looking at your rig very nice! have one question, I noticed you have your pump inputs on the bottom. Do you have a problem with priming that way? do you think it would work if the pumps were turned 180 degrees?
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