Any ideas for chilling Blichmann Fermenters?

Hi,

I want to buy a 27 gallon Blichmann fermenter, but I don't have a suitable fridge to put it in. Also I wouldn't have enough space to put the fridge so...

I'm thinking of "jacketing" it somehow, but I didn't find any good idea yet.

Thanks for your help.

Think "internal SS coil" ala the Brewhemoth. I've read about people wrapping copper pipe around the fermenter and insulating to mimic jacketing, but I'm not convinced that it would work better than a chiller immersed in the fermenting wort.

I have a 22 gallon brewhemoth and there is no way it was going to fit in a fridge. Below is the build that I did as a jacketed fermenter.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/good-fermenter-chiller-319131/

For what it's worth, the reason why I decided to not use the internal coil is because it's just one more thing to clean. The other reason why I choose to go jacketed is because of the heat transfer. By having the cooling outside, inside you create a natural convection motion.

Just my two cents.

Kyled93 said:

I have a 22 gallon brewhemoth and there is no way it was going to fit in a fridge. Below is the build that I did as a jacketed fermenter.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/good-fermenter-chiller-319131/

For what it's worth, the reason why I decided to not use the internal coil is because it's just one more thing to clean. The other reason why I choose to go jacketed is because of the heat transfer. By having the cooling outside, inside you create a natural convection motion.

Just my two cents.

Click to expand...

Thanks Kyled, I was thinking about the same idea, but I didn't spect It worked, now that I see it I have no doubt, that's the way I'll go.

I'll think about the way I circulate the water around the fermenter, maybe I find an easier solution since surrounding the conical part of a blichmann sounds hard. If I dond't find anything I'll follow your desing exactly.

Thanks again.

Kyled93 said:

I have a 22 gallon brewhemoth and there is no way it was going to fit in a fridge. Below is the build that I did as a jacketed fermenter.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/good-fermenter-chiller-319131/

For what it's worth, the reason why I decided to not use the internal coil is because it's just one more thing to clean. The other reason why I choose to go jacketed is because of the heat transfer. By having the cooling outside, inside you create a natural convection motion.

Just my two cents.

Click to expand...

I have thought of the method which you use to cool your Brewhemoth, however, I kept getting stuck on the efficiency. It seems that there would be limited contact between the copper coil and outside surface of the vessel, specifically, only contact along a tangential line. Also, I would think that the cooling liquid would have to "radiate" through the copper and SS in order to have an affect on the fermenting wort. Your insulation helps, but your coil would still need to cool the airspace between the coils.

With that thinking, I was figuring that the immersion chiller approach would be more economical despite the additional cleaning required. In my case, I would likely be soaking some other brewery part in Oxiclean and would just dunk the chiller coil as needed.

I would like to see some data from those who use the internal coil as to the ability to maintain fermentation temps with high ambient temps as well as being able to crash cool. Can you crash cool with your setup?

OG2620 said:

I have thought of the method which you use to cool your Brewhemoth, however, I kept getting stuck on the efficiency. It seems that there would be limited contact between the copper coil and outside surface of the vessel, specifically, only contact along a tangential line. Also, I would think that the cooling liquid would have to "radiate" through the copper and SS in order to have an affect on the fermenting wort. Your insulation helps, but your coil would still need to cool the airspace between the coils.

With that thinking, I was figuring that the immersion chiller approach would be more economical despite the additional cleaning required. In my case, I would likely be soaking some other brewery part in Oxiclean and would just dunk the chiller coil as needed.

I would like to see some data from those who use the internal coil as to the ability to maintain fermentation temps with high ambient temps as well as being able to crash cool. Can you crash cool with your setup?

Click to expand...

OG2620, I had the same reservations until I did the math with the pump requirements, water fountain, how cold the water fountian could go and the length of coil i would need (used about 50 ft of 1/4") Then I compared it to how the other jacketed fermentors were built.

The design is extremely similar to a commercial jacketed fermentor. That being said, you were curious about the efficiency. Ideally the air surrounding the coil is extremely small and actually helps as an insulator since the air does not move. This air comes to temp very quickly and has little if any effect. The copper coil is in direct contact with the stainless side and spaced maybe 1/4" from each wrap above and below. The over all height the coil is about an 8" to 10" band around the brewhemoth. The water fountian design spec stated that it would guarantee 50 degree water at an entering temp of 80 degree city water and 90 degree ambient air temp with a flow rate of 8 gallons per hour. This is more than enough cooling needed to maintain fermentation temperatures. In reality, the PID controller will calculate the run time of pump and for how long to run the pump to maintain temperature. I let the fountain run when it needs to and the pump run when the controller decides it needs to add cooling.

Now, the location of my fermentor is in my garage here in South Florida. Everyday like today, its typically between 80 and 90 degrees depending on the time of day. I can easily maintain 68 within the brewhemoth with active fermentation and about 11 gallons of beer. I have tested a crash temp of 55 degrees during my test period in July and was able to maintain this temp easily. The water fountains lowest setting is about 45 degrees which is plenty low enough to crash an ale prior to Kegging.

I hope this helps explain a bit more on my process. In reality you can control the temp in a fermentor may different ways. I chose the way that I thought would require less cleaning and less chance for infection. The internal coil is very similar to what commercial wine makes use. Although its not a coil but more of stainless plate.

Kyle

Kyled93 said:

I have a 22 gallon brewhemoth and there is no way it was going to fit in a fridge. Below is the build that I did as a jacketed fermenter.

Just my two cents.

Click to expand...

That's absolute rubbish.

I, and many others, have fridges that fit The Brewhemoth just fine. Granted they are All-Fridges, but none the less this is a great, and easy, solution.

My 2c

OG2620 said:

Think "internal SS coil" ala the Brewhemoth. I've read about people wrapping copper pipe around the fermenter and insulating to mimic jacketing, but I'm not convinced that it would work better than a chiller immersed in the fermenting wort.

Click to expand...

Thanks OG2620, Kyled's system seems to work fine but I think it is going to be hard to wrap the coil around the conical bottom of my blichmann so this other option looks appropriate for me. I thought about it but I was concerned about cleaning. In the end It's just something more to clean, we are all used to that.

So, I will think about those two options.

Thanks to all

Hey man, you might wanna look into the Stout Tanks fermenters as well. They're cheaper than the blichmanns and you can have them put an SS coil inside similar to the brewhemoth.

This is the route I'm going with my own setup.

One could always go the inductor tank route (with immersion chiller) to save even more money if one desires.

El_Matador said:

Hey man, you might wanna look into the Stout Tanks fermenters as well. They're cheaper than the blichmanns and you can have them put an SS coil inside similar to the brewhemoth.

This is the route I'm going with my own setup.

Click to expand...

Thanks Matador, I thought about them too, but It's imposible to find them in Europe and when I asked them about shipping they told me that I should expect customs issues and that they don't get responsible for the posible damages during shipping.

Blichmann instead has several dealers in Europe, that's why I took them as my first option.

El_Matador said:

Hey man, you might wanna look into the Stout Tanks fermenters as well. They're cheaper than the blichmanns and you can have them put an SS coil inside similar to the brewhemoth.

This is the route I'm going with my own setup.

Click to expand...

Thing I don't like about the Blichmann or Stout besides being made in China is you can't do pressurized fermentation. The Brewhemoth is the only one you can do this with and they also ship overseas.

But back to the point: I'd do an immersion chiller. You'll use less tubing and have a more effective result I think. Most commercial fermenters are jacketed but the entire area is surrounded by glycol. Wrapping tubing has a low surface area so you'll need a lot of it and you'll really have to insulate it well. Also if you go glycol you'll need a more powerful and more expensive unit to be able to flow through exterior mounted tubing. The shorter the better.

A fridge is nice too - if you have the room. You'll need a big one. Personally I'd rather save the real estate for multiple fermenters!

jcaudill said:

Thing I don't like about the Blichmann or Stout besides being made in China is you can't do pressurized fermentation. The Brewhemoth is the only one you can do this with and they also ship overseas.

But back to the point: I'd do an immersion chiller. You'll use less tubing and have a more effective result I think. Most commercial fermenters are jacketed but the entire area is surrounded by glycol. Wrapping tubing has a low surface area so you'll need a lot of it and you'll really have to insulate it well. Also if you go glycol you'll need a more powerful and more expensive unit to be able to flow through exterior mounted tubing. The shorter the better.

A fridge is nice too - if you have the room. You'll need a big one. Personally I'd rather save the real estate for multiple fermenters!

Click to expand...

I have two Fermenators and yeah, I hate that you can't do pressurized fermentation, I do think, however that that is not the case with the Stout ones, but I've yet to have FHE with them.

I agree with the tubing solution if you have to go with Blichmanns then, the only problem is that the Blichmanns don't really have any convenient ports to put a temp sensor in, as opposed to the Brewhemoth. The only place you could do a tri clamp Temp probe is through the blow off tube assy port, and I personally wouldn't not use a blowoff, which takes that option off the table.

Also, by the time you buy the damn Blichmann with the tri clamps and add their insanely overpriced Blowoff assembly you start getting close to the price of two Brewhemoths or Stouts, something to consider...

El_Matador said:

I have two Fermenators and yeah, I hate that you can't do pressurized fermentation, I do think, however that that is not the case with the Stout ones, but I've yet to have FHE with them.

I agree with the tubing solution if you have to go with Blichmanns then, the only problem is that the Blichmanns don't really have any convenient ports to put a temp sensor in, as opposed to the Brewhemoth. The only place you could do a tri clamp Temp probe is through the blow off tube assy port, and I personally wouldn't not use a blowoff, which takes that option off the table.

Also, by the time you buy the damn Blichmann with the tri clamps and add their insanely overpriced Blowoff assembly you start getting close to the price of two Brewhemoths or Stouts, something to consider...

Click to expand...

Both Stout and Blichmann can only take a little pressure - basically enough to put a little CO2 in there to help move the beer out. Neither can accept enough pressure for a pressurized fermentation or spunding.

I think someone makes a weldless type fitting that would work with a temp probe. Otherwise you could just have a half coupling welded into the side. I had to have that added on with my Brewhemoth's.

jcaudill said:

Both Stout and Blichmann can only take a little pressure - basically enough to put a little CO2 in there to help move the beer out. Neither can accept enough pressure for a pressurized fermentation or spunding.

I think someone makes a weldless type fitting that would work with a temp probe. Otherwise you could just have a half coupling welded into the side. I had to have that added on with my Brewhemoth's.

Click to expand...

Brewery Parts sells triclamp Ferrules, but I'm not sure I'd want to be drilling and welding into brand new fermenters that are supposed to be ready to go.