Secondary Vs. Bottle Conditioning

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rrj713

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Ok, this is my first post on these forums so go easy on me. I'm currently on my first batch and so i'm trying to keep things as simple as possible for myself as I get familiar with the brewing process. I'm trying to figure out when to bottle and if racking into a secondary is necessary or not. The guy at my local homebrew store insists that I need to rack into a secondary (he didn't even ask what type of beer I was brewing or how long it's been in my primary).

I've read in these forums that a secondary is not needed, and John Palmer's book also says it's not needed. So I didn't find this guy very helpful and I need my questions answered. It's been in the primary for 2 weeks now, should i listen to him and rack into a secondary for another week or 2, or should I just go ahead and bottle next weekend? and if I just bottle next weekend, how do I do the Priming without a bottling bucket?

If it helps answer my question... It's an English Pale Ale
OG 1.050
instructions say final gravity will be between 1.012-1.014

Thanks for advance for your help!
 
Welcome to HBT!

There is no need to rack to secondary. As you read, many folks don't use a secondary. We were not kidding about it, it just isn't needed. I will tell you that you should leave your beer for another week or two. This will allow the yeast to complete it's job cleaning up your beer as well as giving it some bulk aging time.

I don't know what to tell you about not having a bottling bucket. Obviously, you can rack it to whatever you were going to use as a secondary and bottle from that, however, I have never tried to bottle out of anything other than a bottling bucket.
 
Take a SG reading, when you get the same results to days in a row it's time to bottle...

Secondary isn't necessary, I did a triple on my first brew and racked it into the secondary, then bottled it after taking SG readings....
 
There is really no "wrong" answer and no "right" answer for your question. Everyone approaches this issue differently. You're going to end up getting a lot of personal processes and nothing definitive.


Unless I'm bulk aging a big beer, making a fruit beer, dry hopping, oaking or something else that needs to sit for some time I just primary for 2 - 4 weeks and then keg/bottle.

Bottle conditioning and secondary isn't the same, however. Bottle conditioning is adding a little sugar to naturally carbonate. Secondary isn't when you carb.
 
I'm no expert and still consider myself a n00b at this but here is my $0.02......

If you want it to condition, leave it in primary. The yeast will clean up some of their own by products if you leave it sit. If you take it to a secondary, you'll be losing a large percentage of your yeast for clean up. I've done batches both ways but only after letting it stay in primary for a few weeks. My only reasons for a secondary are for clarity and freeing up my primary for another beer.

I'm not sure about priming the batch without a bottling bucket. It sounds as if you do have another (secondary) vessel. I suppose you could transfer the beer into the second, clean and sanitize your primary bucket and use it to bottle. Or, you may be able to bottle from the secondary using your siphon, tubing and hopefully bottling wand. I've never tried this, my kit came with a bottling bucket and I've always used it.

One thing I'm learning about this is that beer is pretty forgiving. I've gone off traveling for months and left beer and I've also done a 20-day turn around on a batch. Don't stess too much and just have some patience. The beer will be fine. :)
 
I don't own a bucket. I always bottle from a carboy. It is simple enough. Add the boiled and cooled priming sugar, rack the beer on to it and bottle. Works easy.

My personal practice is to use a secondary. Probably as much out of habit as anything else.

I agree it isn't essential, but I'm used to it.

Regards:mug:
 
Thanks for the fast replies everyone. One more quick question that's been on my mind. If i do decide to rack to my 5-gallon carboy either to bottle from there or to leave it there as a secondary, I am just supposed to open my current bucket and stick the siphon in? I'm guessing the air that gets in at that point is negligable, but I wanted to ask just to be sure. Thanks again.
 
Yup, just siphon and go. Don't splash too much and you'll be fine.

I'd really recommend a bottling bucket. It helps quite a bit and the bottling wand makes it so much easier than bottling from a racking tube.
 
I stick my wand on the end of racking tube.
(sounds dirty)

What is difference between a racking tube and whatever attaches to a bucket?
 
Well im no expert but i can see at least two good reasons to use a secondary:

1- see this other guy in this other thread who just busted a glass carboy to pieces trying to scrub all the dirty mess the initial Krausen left.

(i use a plastic primary fermenter plastic bucket for at least the first 10 days and you can see my thread about the plastic bag covering method, after that initial "wild yeast feast stage" you just transfer and blow offs wont occur and it wont get as dirty in your carboy).

2- transferring to secondary (a glass carboy in my case) after about 10 days, begins to clear the beer out and is a first step towards the final product, no blow offs or insanely dirty carboy to clean up afterwards, just a beer that keeps on aging with what's left of the active yeast cells for as long as you wish (i usually let them sit in secondary for 2 weeks then bottle).

Hey it's beer, do you want to wait till your retirement days to be able to finally taste it? I dont, im not that patient. :)

Just my little .02 cents worth of worthless advices, hey i've only been brewing for 2 years now, so what do I know? :)
 
Oh. Doesn't sound like a biggie to me.
I use a secondary so a lot of stuff is already eliminated.
Then the rest goes away racking onto the priming sugar.

I like Revvy's bucket but I'm just not motivated to build one.

Thanks
 
I secondary some of my beers. But most of them I just leave in the primary bucket for 2-3 weeks. Then I put the whole bucket in the fridge to cold crash and compact all of the sediment in the bottom of the bucket.

Then I carefully siphon the beer into another bucket that already has my bottling sugar/water in it. Then I add one of those bottling wands to the end of my siphon tube and bottle. (The wand has a spring loaded valve in the tip.) I use an auto siphon and I've never had any problems.

But, you really should get a bottling wand. They make it very easy. Just fill the bottle right up to the top. And when you remove the wand it leaves just the right amount of head space.
 
But, you really should get a bottling wand. They make it very easy. Just fill the bottle right up to the top. And when you remove the wand it leaves just the right amount of head space.

Indeed! they are truly God sent, I didn't have one for the first 3 batches i did, geeeh, i wouldn't go without one now.
 
As has been said, you don't NEED to secondary. Everyone will have their opinion about it (I prefer to do it myself) but you can make great beer either way. The only way to really know how you prefer to do it is to try a couple of batches either way and see what works for you. The main reason it works for me is that I only have one primary system, and 2 free carboys (5 gal) that were given to me. By moving into secondary after 10 days or so I can start another batch fermenting in the primary. If I waited 3 weeks between batches I'd kill my pipeline pretty quickly.
 
I'm on my second batch, I used only a primary for the first one and using a secondary as well this time. I'm mainly doing it to try something different and hoping it helps clarify it more. I like the idea of using a secondary so I will probably continue to do so.
 
I just made a bottling bucket yesterday. I took a 5gal Food grade plastic bucket (seen them for $5 at the hardware store, but I get them from work!), $3.99 for a 1 inch hole saw to fit my drill, and $3.50 for the plastic spigot (with seals) from the homebrew supply store. I drilled the hole close to the bottom of the bucket and trimmed the rough edges with a pocket knife.
I had a spare racking cane (other than the one on my syphon) and cut a 1 inch piece of 3/8inch (inner diameter) tubing (49cents/foot) to connect the cane to the spigot. Then I followed Revvy's advice on making a small tube to fit in a stopper on the inside of the bucket to help get most of the beer out of the bucket. Tested it with water and it drained all but 1/4 inch out of the bucket.
100_2029(Medium).jpg

Total price about $4 with a free bucket, not counting the hole saw which will last a lifetime!
 
I stopped plugging a bottling wand onto long tubing after wasting 2 quarts of good beer to spillage. When you have ten thumbs like I do, it's best to go simple. The setup pictured above works uber well.

There is probably no one size fits all process for all beers. I'm getting away from using a secondary for my simple recipes. If I ever make a barleywine, it will secondary for sure.
 
Thanks for all the advice, i think what I'll end up doing is only using a primary this time around and i'll follow one of the above poster's advice and try it with a secondary next time around to see what I prefer. Since i'm only using a primary and since I have no bottle bucket, i'll put the priming solution in my 5 gallon glass carboy and bottle from there.

I guess the general consensus seems to be that bottling bucket is a good thing?

P.S. I have a bottling wand, but not an auto siphon, i'll probably pick one up this week before i bottle.
 
Every post I have read here is for bottling buckets. If someone doesn't have one, the posts recommend buying one. It makes it easier to get the beer off your trub, and to mix the priming solution.
 
You are willing to buy a auto siphon and secondary but not spend 6 dollars or so on a bottling bucket. Both an auto siphon and secondary are nice but not necessary where as a bottling bucket is necessary if you want beer without a couple inches of sediment in the bottle. I'm confused as to what you are trying to accomplish.
 
I don't use a bucket and I don't have sediment problems in my bottles.
When you use a secondary you have two chances to get rid of trub and excess yeast.

I don't quite understand you point Nurmey. Why is racking to a bucket different than racking to a carboy for bottling?
 
My confusion isn't about what kind of vessel to rack into before bottling, it's that he seems unwilling to rack off of trub before he bottles. I don't quite understand leaving your beer to clear, then mixing the trub with priming sugar before bottling.
 
You are willing to buy a auto siphon and secondary but not spend 6 dollars or so on a bottling bucket. Both an auto siphon and secondary are nice but not necessary where as a bottling bucket is necessary if you want beer without a couple inches of sediment in the bottle. I'm confused as to what you are trying to accomplish.

Relax, I never said was "unwilling" to get a bottling bucket. Re-read my last post, I plan to siphon from my primary fermenter to my carboy to get rid of the trub, then i'll bottle from there.

I understand the need to rack into a different vessel before I bottle, that was never the point of this thread, so I don't understand why this has come up.
 
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