Thought on saison Recipe

So I am trying to formulate my first saison recipe and want to know what you think.

Grain Bill
9# Belgian Pils
2# Flaked wheat
.5# Cara-Pils
.25# Acidulated Malt

Hops
1oz Czech saaz 3.0% AA for 60 minutes
0.33 oz Sorachi Ace 12.6% AA for 60 minutes
0.5 oz Saaz 3.0% AA for 30 minutes
0.5 oz Saaz 3.0% AA for 5 minutes
0.25 oz Hallertau at Flameout

Pitch 1 L starter of 3726 Farmhouse Ale at 72F then slowly ramping to 85F

How does this sound? Any thoughts on how the Sorachi Ace will do? Anything else you would add?
Victory Helios is my favorite beer, will this be anything like it? Minus the Brett funk?

First, what is the acidulated malt for? Second, what is your mash temp schedule. I'd do something around 148-150 for 75 minutes. Third, if you want to get the flavor and aroma from the Sorachi Ace you should move it to around 15-20 minutes. I've never had Victory Helios, but I'd say your recipe looks good.

I BIAB and my mash schedule is planned at 149-150 for 75 minutes then mash out at 170 for 10 minutes. I am just getting started adjusting my water I have been using 100% Reverse osmosis water for my brews and they all seem to be missing something I so started reading the water chemistry primer so the Acidulated malt was due to the recommendations on it and also others have stated that it adds a little more sour taste to Saisons. Thanks for the advice with the Sorachi Ace. I have never used it brewing but I really like the flavor/aroma. I know that it will make the beer a little different that Helios but really wanted to try this out. If anyone thinks it would detract from this beer I will drop it out. Would you increase the Saaz amount any to keep the IBUs around 30?

I was also thinking of adding 1/2 lb to 1 lb of Amber belgian candy to help dry it out and add some color but I am unsure if this yeast really needs it. I have another saison (Midwest's Lawnmower de Saison) fermenting with 3711 and it is a beast!!! From 1.062 to 1.003 in 6 days and I am not sure if its done yet (gonna let it go at least 3 weeks). Is this yeast a beast like 3711 or does it need a little help?

I've only used the Beast, but I hear the Belgian strain is finicky. I know others in the 3711 thread have pitched 3711 when 3726 got stuck to get the flavor of the latter with the attenuation of the former.

tennesseean_87 said:

I've only used the Beast, but I hear the Belgian strain is finicky. I know others in the 3711 thread have pitched 3711 when 3726 got stuck to get the flavor of the latter with the attenuation of the former.

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What? 3726 gets stuck? Where, at 1.006? I've only used it twice, but last time it went from 1.062 to 1.010 in 5 days. First batch dropped to 1.006 in secondary.

TNGabe said:

What? 3726 gets stuck? Where, at 1.006? I've only used it twice, but last time it went from 1.062 to 1.010 in 5 days. First batch dropped to 1.006 in secondary.

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No, Belgian Saison 3724 gets stuck around 1.030. I've never heard that Farmhouse Saison 3726 gets stuck.

TNTgill said:

I BIAB and my mash schedule is planned at 149-150 for 75 minutes then mash out at 170 for 10 minutes. I am just getting started adjusting my water I have been using 100% Reverse osmosis water for my brews and they all seem to be missing something I so started reading the water chemistry primer so the Acidulated malt was due to the recommendations on it and also others have stated that it adds a little more sour taste to Saisons. Thanks for the advice with the Sorachi Ace. I have never used it brewing but I really like the flavor/aroma. I know that it will make the beer a little different that Helios but really wanted to try this out. If anyone thinks it would detract from this beer I will drop it out. Would you increase the Saaz amount any to keep the IBUs around 30?

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.25 lbs of acdulated malt will not add a perceptible amount of sour taste. If you want a sour taste consider adding lactic acid or souring some grain and then adding that to the mash. Do what you need to get your IBUs to 30, so move some saaz to 60 minutes.

1/4lb of acidulated malt won't make the beer sour, but it may help keep a pale mash in the right pH range for avoiding tannins. Do you have any hops stronger than 3% alpha you can bitter with? It seems like a waste of saaz to bitter with, plus it will suck up a lot more wort than that many IBUs of magnum or whatever. For similar reasons, I would move the 30 minute saaz to 10-15. When I used 3726, it dropped the gravity from 45 to 6 in under a week at 75F, with no added sugars. If you want to dry it out more than that, just drop the carapils.

Thanks for the advice. Not really looking so much for sour but if it did make it sour I wouldn't complain. I was just trying to get my water better (also using Calcium chloride for the first time). What would be your suggestion of bittering hops then? I am very new as this will be only my 7th brew and still trying to get a handle on what works best with what. I really like the earthy, funky tones in Victory Helios (hoping this beer will be somewhat similar).

For bittering hops, many of us just buy a bunch of something that's high-alpha, low-cohumulone and affordably priced. Any flavor/aroma contributions will disappear after 30+ minutes of boiling, although you will want to boil 45-60 minutes to get all the IBUs you can out of them. Magnum is probably the most popular choice, but you can use nugget, millenium, CTZ or others. You can also buy hops that sound like they taste good, and use them to bitter if it turns out that they do not. Without using Brett, I don't think your beer will taste much like Helios, but I do think it will be pretty good. You'll get some earth, pepper and spice, but not much funk. If you want more yeast=derived flavors, pitch your yeast at about 1/2 to 2/3 the "proper" rate.

Well back to the LHBS then. I only have a few ounces of EKG, few of Northern Brewer and what was listed above. I might pick up some brett and get funky. Anyone use WLP670? What where the results if so?

You can bitter with any of those hops if you want. They won't harm the beer or anything. My advice was more for general cost-effectiveness. Making an extra trip to the LHBS would ruin that aspect of it. Just pick up some bittering-only hops next time you're going anyway.

I'll be going by that way so not too far out of the way. I may try to order from some bulk supplier online as I am also thinking of a DFH 90 clone for the spring. Would magnum be the best way to go for general bittering (able to use in multiple recipes)?

Magnum is the gold standard in neutral bittering to a lot of very knowledgeable people on this site. I use millenium because it's stronger and I got it really cheap. You can also use hops like summit, nugget or columbus, all of which are great bittering hops as well as being good as flavor/aroma hops. If you don't like the flavor, you still have a use for them. I've used low-strength hops to bitter with because I bought 8 ounces and then discovered I didn't really like them very much. It worked fine; I just had to use 3 times as much. The Northern Brewer you have is also a very good bittering hop, if you don't have other plans for it. The particular bittering hop you use is pretty unimportant in the grand scheme of things. But both the LHBS I shop at price all their hops the same; if I can use an ounce of millenium instead of 5 ounces of saaz, I will have saved myself 5 or 10 bucks (although I buy most of my hops online).