Brew Masters on Discovery w/ Sam Calagione

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KMKsuburbannoise said:
bought 2 of them last time I was at 3 Floyds. Had one today. I wasn't too impressed. It has an odd taste. The carbanation reminded me of a beer that hasn't been in bottles long. I did think that it tasted better as it got warmer.
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yeah i have 2 more. going to try one then try and age the other 2. guess the hype from my classmates got to me.
 
Just bought a 4 pack of 90 mintue ipa and was completely not impressed. Why is this supposed to be "perhaps the best ipA in america" as it says on the 4 pack box that cost 10$ dollars. What ever had to try it myself to know . "that **** is weak"
 
bluntsandbeers said:
Just bought a 4 pack of 90 mintue ipa and was completely not impressed. Why is this supposed to be "perhaps the best ipA in america" as it says on the 4 pack box that cost 10$ dollars. What ever had to try it myself to know . "that **** is weak"
Click to expand...

100% disagree, I enjoy 90 Minute very much, its a great beer, imho.
 
bluntsandbeers said:
Just bought a 4 pack of 90 mintue ipa and was completely not impressed. Why is this supposed to be "perhaps the best ipA in america" as it says on the 4 pack box that cost 10$ dollars. What ever had to try it myself to know . "that **** is weak"
Click to expand...

That's because the best IPA's are brewed by members on this site. :rockin:
 
klyph said:
News flash, reality TV isn't real.
Click to expand...

Bingo! If you think they dumped that whole batch, you're crazy. That beer was sold as something, somewhere. They show it "dumping" on camera to exemplify their high standards, but I'm not buying it.

I guarantee they have pushed beers out the door (especially in the early days) that didn't come out just right. It's reality TV. They have to come up with stories and this was really interesting but it doesn't mean what they said happened in the end, actually happened.
 
Lodovico said:
Bingo! If you think they dumped that whole batch, you're crazy. That beer was sold as something, somewhere. They show it "dumping" on camera to exemplify their high standards, but I'm not buying it.

I guarantee they have pushed beers out the door (especially in the early days) that didn't come out just right. It's reality TV. They have to come up with stories and this was really interesting but it doesn't mean what they said happened in the end, actually happened.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure this is what they did with at least some of it. When I went to the brewpub maybe 4 months ago the waiter was talking about the failed batch of 120. He wasn't clear on whether the DFH Ale was a blend of the 120 and the "starter" they made to get it going, but from the description of it and knowing that the two were connected, I can't imagine they would have use "the hop rates of 120 minute" to make a bunch of brewpub exclusive stuff after losing that much on dumped 120. That, and the fact that they've had it on tap for over 4 months makes me think they have a ton of it.

By the way, the DFH Ale was REALLY good... Like I thought it was better than 90 or 120 minute. If that's the result of a failed batch, I say fail more please.
 
That sounds very possible. Like I said, I don't believe for a second that they dumped that whole batch and this is a good possibility. I like the show a lot but I do watch it with the same skepticism that I try to tell my wife about in all of her "reality" shows. Not everything that's happening is actually "happening."
 
Lodovico said:
That sounds very possible. Like I said, I don't believe for a second that they dumped that whole batch and this is a good possibility. I like the show a lot but I do watch it with the same skepticism that I try to tell my wife about in all of her "reality" shows. Not everything that's happening is actually "happening."
Click to expand...

I don't know about the logistics of it all, but for a brewery that has so many "off center" beers I don't understand either why this one would not just become another one under a differnet name.
 
I agree that not all of the failed 120 was dumped but the vast majority probably was. Even if it was used at the brew pub it did not look like they could store the entire batch within the brew pub.
 
I toured the brewery the week after they dumped this beer and they were talking about it on the tour. The staff seemed genuinely upset about it and everyone I spoke to indicated that they did indeed dump the whole batch.

Could it be an elaborate rouse to get more people to believe their standards are high and therefore buy more DFH beer? Maybe, but I tend to believe the simplest answer is the correct one... they dumped it to make room for something else on their brew schedule. Besides, they're selling more than their capacity right now, so I'm not sure it would make that much difference.

FWIW, I love 90 minute IPA and think it is one of the best/better DIPAs out there. The rest of their stuff is good, but kind of weird. That said, I respect the hell out of anyone with a dream who through sweat and hard work, built a successful business. I think the DFH haters out there need to think about the level of effort required to build something from nothing before they start spewing hate. If you don't like their beers, so be it... but you gotta respect what Sam and DFH has accomplished as a craft brewer.
 
RichmonS said:
I agree that not all of the failed 120 was dumped but the vast majority probably was. Even if it was used at the brew pub it did not look like they could store the entire batch within the brew pub.
Click to expand...

Not unless they had a bathtub (or swimming pool) 20 x 15 x 8 feet. Then...yeah.
 
This thread reminds me of why I rarely have the stomach for hanging out with "beer geeks" in real life anymore... seriously people, if you've really got nothing better to say than "I can brew better beer than DFH" or "all their beers are 'meh'", then just leave and find a thread about something super geeky that will make you feel important and superior and stop acting like a horse's ass in a thread about a show a lot of us are glad to see happening.

I mean really, even if their beers aren't all "Great" (whatever that means) instead of "Good" ... even if you don't "like" them (again, whatever that means) ... even if the format seems formulaic and cheesy ... even if it's made to be more "dramatic" intentionally to hype up the show ... even IF ALL THAT'S TRUE:

so what?

I'm serious... who cares? Isn't the overriding point here that there is a SHOW ABOUT BREWING BEER ON TV?? Not just any old beer... creative, crazy, unconventional craft brewing?? Isn't that why all of us love this hobby, at least partly? Isn't it amazing that in a beer market where 95% of the sales are macrobrews that follow a scientific formulation that produces a predictable, low-flavor product (not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just the style people expect), that we get to watch a show about a crazy brewer who's following his passion, doing something we all love, and getting to bring a very well-produced show to market to showcase it?

You should love this show and the fact that it's on the air even if you HATE DFH beers... it can only be good for craft brewing, home brewing, and getting people to try new beers. If it's not about that, then what the hell is this hobby about anyway? Seriously people, get over yourselves. I end by quoting myself from early in this thread:


MrInternet said:
It's been my experience that there are two types of "beer geeks":

1) Those who spend the majority of their time talking about how amazing and awesome beer is, and

2) Those who spend the majority of their time looking down their nose at 99% of beer and talking about how much beer sucks

If you've ever been curious about which one you are, watch this show.
Click to expand...
 
HoyaSaxa said:
I toured the brewery the week after they dumped this beer and they were talking about it on the tour. The staff seemed genuinely upset about it and everyone I spoke to indicated that they did indeed dump the whole batch.

Could it be an elaborate rouse to get more people to believe their standards are high and therefore buy more DFH beer? Maybe, but I tend to believe the simplest answer is the correct one... they dumped it to make room for something else on their brew schedule. Besides, they're selling more than their capacity right now, so I'm not sure it would make that much difference.

FWIW, I love 90 minute IPA and think it is one of the best/better DIPAs out there. The rest of their stuff is good, but kind of weird. That said, I respect the hell out of anyone with a dream who through sweat and hard work, built a successful business. I think the DFH haters out there need to think about the level of effort required to build something from nothing before they start spewing hate. If you don't like their beers, so be it... but you gotta respect what Sam and DFH has accomplished as a craft brewer.
Click to expand...

Statement in bold: Ah, the old Occam's Razor.

I'm going to have to play middle-ground in this discussion.

HoyaSaxa, being an eyewitness to the disparity of the workers in real-life I'm going to have to agree mostly with you. I'm willing to bet more than 3/4 of the batch was dumped and so the workers still took a huge hit, with DFH being a profit-share company (love that idea, too. Really gets people motivated to work hard.)

For the remainder of the batch... I like stageseven's theory. The DFH Ale seems like it fits the bill:

"This Double IPA is rich honey amber in color..... Citrus, apricot and piney aromas lead in to a malty well hopped body and the beer finishes with a dry bitter end"

From what I remember that seems very much like the flavor and color profile of 120

"The body of 60 Minute IPA, the alcohol of 90 Minute IPA, and the hops of 120 Minute IPA."

They hopped it for 120, fermentation stalled at the ABV% of 90, giving it the heavy/sweet body of 60.

Well played
 
MrInternet said:
This thread reminds me of why I rarely have the stomach for hanging out with "beer geeks" in real life anymore...
Click to expand...

Totally agree. I think this is the difference between a beer geek and a beer snob. I love being around people that are passionate about the beers they like and want me to try them. I can't stand hanging around people that call my favorite craft brews "pedestrian" and scoff at everything I have in my fridge.
 
MrInternet said:
This thread reminds me of why I rarely have the stomach for hanging out with "beer geeks" in real life anymore... seriously people, if you've really got nothing better to say than "I can brew better beer than DFH" or "all their beers are 'meh'", then just leave and find a thread about something super geeky that will make you feel important and superior and stop acting like a horse's ass in a thread about a show a lot of us are glad to see happening.

I mean really, even if their beers aren't all "Great" (whatever that means) instead of "Good" ... even if you don't "like" them (again, whatever that means) ... even if the format seems formulaic and cheesy ... even if it's made to be more "dramatic" intentionally to hype up the show ... even IF ALL THAT'S TRUE:

so what?

I'm serious... who cares? Isn't the overriding point here that there is a SHOW ABOUT BREWING BEER ON TV?? Not just any old beer... creative, crazy, unconventional craft brewing?? Isn't that why all of us love this hobby, at least partly? Isn't it amazing that in a beer market where 95% of the sales are macrobrews that follow a scientific formulation that produces a predictable, low-flavor product (not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just the style people expect), that we get to watch a show about a crazy brewer who's following his passion, doing something we all love, and getting to bring a very well-produced show to market to showcase it?

You should love this show and the fact that it's on the air even if you HATE DFH beers... it can only be good for craft brewing, home brewing, and getting people to try new beers. If it's not about that, then what the hell is this hobby about anyway? Seriously people, get over yourselves. I end by quoting myself from early in this thread:
Click to expand...

Personally I don't mind at all if people express their opinions about the show, either positive or negative. What really annoys me however is when someone tells me what to do.
 
-TH- said:
Personally I don't mind at all if people express their opinions about the show, either positive or negative. What really annoys me however is when someone tells me what to do.
Click to expand...

Don't worry, that guy doesn't realize he is the type of person that he hates the most.

This is a "discussion" board.
an act or instance of discussing; consideration or examination by argument, comment, etc., esp. to explore solutions; informal debate.

Not a Sam Calagione ego stroking board.
 
Regarding Poppa Skull:

KMKsuburbannoise said:
bought 2 of them last time I was at 3 Floyds. Had one today. I wasn't too impressed. It has an odd taste. The carbanation reminded me of a beer that hasn't been in bottles long. I did think that it tasted better as it got warmer.
Click to expand...

My friend brought back a bottle from DFH's brew pub. I thought it was really, really good (he did too). One of the small number of DFH's beers I've enjoyed. To each their own!
 
-TH- said:
Personally I don't mind at all if people express their opinions about the show, either positive or negative. What really annoys me however is when someone tells me what to do.
Click to expand...

+1 to this brother.:mug:
 
So because a show is about beer/a craft brewery, we should all sit around in a circle and cream ourselves at whatever they decide to show? Ahh, the old "Everyone's entitled to their opinion, as long as it agrees with mine" argument.
 
I think this is a great thread, great discussion, and exactly the place where we can all voice our opinions and be heard. Sam, in his book, said that the craft brewing industry is "95% *******-free." Let's not prove the other 5% in this forum.
 
TheWeeb said:
I think this is a great thread, great discussion, and exactly the place where we can all voice our opinions and be heard. Sam, in his book, said that the craft brewing industry is "95% *******-free." Let's not prove the other 5% in this forum.
Click to expand...

Shut up :mug:
 
ubermick said:
So because a show is about beer/a craft brewery, we should all sit around in a circle and cream ourselves at whatever they decide to show? Ahh, the old "Everyone's entitled to their opinion, as long as it agrees with mine" argument.
Click to expand...

That does seem to be the attitude of some people in this thread. It's not mine (not that you were directing that at me). I only ask that opinions, both positive and negative, be backed with reasons so they can be discussed openly and honestly. Posts like this, however:

Mikethepoolguy said:
Advertisement, gimmic, infomercial, marketing ploy, theres a sucker born every minute, etc.

I use urine in my beer so I should have a show too.
Click to expand...

Are not helpful. Maybe he was being sarcastic, though.
 
-TH- said:
Personally I don't mind at all if people express their opinions about the show, either positive or negative. What really annoys me however is when someone tells me what to do.
Click to expand...

Well, something that really annoys me is being quoted out of context. Since your mis-interpretation of what I said and how I said it directly impacts the validity of your assertion that I was 'telling you what to do', it would appear that this ain't Burger King, and neither of us are getting it our way. :)

BeerWars said:
Don't worry, that guy doesn't realize he is the type of person that he hates the most.

This is a "discussion" board.
an act or instance of discussing; consideration or examination by argument, comment, etc., esp. to explore solutions; informal debate.

Not a Sam Calagione ego stroking board.
Click to expand...

But many people aren't "discussing" ... they are doing things like claiming their home brew is better than DFH... or that DFH beer is "bad"... or that the show is "formulaic" and therefore not worth watching. These are all qualitative assessments of tangential aspects of the actual discussion that should be going on.

I couldn't give a crap about Sam C's ego... I'm not even a big DFH fan. What I AM a big fan of, as should everyone on this board should be, is that all of a sudden MAINSTREAM AMERICA is being exposed to craft beer in a big way. A major cable channel has put their significant weight and expertise towards a subject and industry we all love... yeah, there's a formula. It would be like me telling you that you're being 'formulaic' because "you just heated, mashed, boiled, and pitched yeast... just like you did on EVERY other brew you've ever done... sheesh". It's called doing what works, and this format resonates with viewers. The thing is, even if the form bothers you, the substance of the show should be appreciated by all of us... I'm not saying you have to watch it. I'm not even saying you have to like it all that much. I just can't believe that this thing we do, that we have to constantly try to explain, justify, put into layman's terms, etc, for the people in our lives... this thing is finally on a mainstream cable channel. It's getting some validation, and it's only going to mean more homebrewers... how is that possibly a bad thing? Why are people nitpicking and assuming Sam's a jerk or a clown, that his beer sucks... that they could make better beer... that they lied on camera just to score points in an industry that's ALREADY treating them very well.

This discussion is, for many people in it, merely about finding the worst in it and ignoring the rest. I suppose someone could make the same assertion about me and not be totally incorrect, given the amount of effort I'm putting into trying to get people to see that they're acting unreasonably.

I love the show... I think it's amazing that this is on TV. Out of the 14 or so DFH beers I've tried, I only like about 4 of them for regular consumption... I enjoyed tasting them all though. They were ALL very well-made beers, but they definitely cater to off-centered tastes, as they say. I think it's a truly American story of someone going where there passions lead them, and doing what they love doing and being successful at it.

Do I think the format's cheesy? Sure... but it works for the general populace. Do I think DFH is the best brewery in the world? No, not even in my top 5. Do I think Sam's a goofball? Of course he is, you'd have to be to maintain your sanity in that industry... the other choice is to join the "5 percent".

I apologize if I've offended, but this would be a far more productive discussion if everyone took 5 seconds just to reflect how awesome it is that this show even exists, like it or not. :)

motobrewer said:
YOU SHOULD LOVE THIS SHOW!

lol

did he really quote himself?
Click to expand...

Yes, using the "quote feature" ... you should look into it.

ubermick said:
So because a show is about beer/a craft brewery, we should all sit around in a circle and cream ourselves at whatever they decide to show? Ahh, the old "Everyone's entitled to their opinion, as long as it agrees with mine" argument.
Click to expand...

*sigh*

No, that's not what I was saying... I was merely trying to argue that there's a certain sense in which all of us shoudl be glad this is one the air, and be "fans", even if the format is annoying to us or we don't particularly like DFH beers. I'm an Administrator at the Internet's largest invertebrate keeper's forum, and there is a similar situation right now with a show called "Bugging Out" ... it's an internet dealer named Ken who's dealing with a similar "crisis of the week". All of us are behind the show and voting for it to continue, even though many of us really don't care for it... why? Because not in a hundred years did anyone in that hobby think that a show about it would end up on mainstream TV. I've spent the last decade trying to explain to people how tarantulas aren't going to kill them, no all snakes aren't venomous, why spiders aren't going to lay eggs in their ears at night, and how on earth these "life threatening creatures" can be kept safely at home... well, here's a show that introduces many of these concepts in the "easily palatable formula" that the viewing public is used to.

I guess that's where I'm coming from... there are 100 ways this show could be done. Yes, they could give tons of super-geeky minutiae that would be interesting to US, but would probably mean a weekly viewership of 10,000... as opposed to this format which draws in significantly more. We should all be happy this is getting produced AT ALL... whether or not we actually LIKE the show should be almost secondary. We should all appreciate the fact that this show is even on.

Shouldn't we?

Again, apologies at any offense. In my defense, I was only KINDA telling you what to do. :)
 
klyph said:
Are people really that uptight about beer? I haven't met any, most craft beer enthusiasts I've met are easy going.
Click to expand...

yes, take a gander through this thread.. people really are that uptight. Kind of ironic considering the homebrew motto.

BeerWars said:
This is a "discussion" board....
Not a Sam Calagione ego stroking board.
Click to expand...

yes.. but its also not a Sam Calagione bashing thread. Its a thread where we can all "discuss" THE SHOW, not their beers, and/or if we like 120 or not (or if our homebrew is better... I hope youre joking). Im really trying to stay interested in this thread, but its getting annoying to have to sort through pages of what can only be described as sh_t talking, not discussion... Can we please stay on topic, please. If you want to talk about 60 min or 90 min, or any of the other DFH beers, Im sure there are plenty of threads in the commercial beer forum.

mojotele said:
I only ask that opinions, both positive and negative, be backed with reasons so they can be discussed openly and honestly.
Click to expand...
agreed, and lets keep the discussion about the topic, not how big your ... well you know.
 
ubermick said:
So because a show is about beer/a craft brewery, we should all sit around in a circle and cream ourselves at whatever they decide to show? Ahh, the old "Everyone's entitled to their opinion, as long as it agrees with mine" argument.
Click to expand...

hhaha
 
MrInternet said:
Well, something that really annoys me is being quoted out of context. Since your mis-interpretation of what I said and how I said it directly impacts the validity of your assertion that I was 'telling you what to do', it would appear that this ain't Burger King, and neither of us are getting it our way. :)



But many people aren't "discussing" ... they are doing things like claiming their home brew is better than DFH... or that DFH beer is "bad"... or that the show is "formulaic" and therefore not worth watching. These are all qualitative assessments of tangential aspects of the actual discussion that should be going on.

I couldn't give a crap about Sam C's ego... I'm not even a big DFH fan. What I AM a big fan of, as should everyone on this board should be, is that all of a sudden MAINSTREAM AMERICA is being exposed to craft beer in a big way. A major cable channel has put their significant weight and expertise towards a subject and industry we all love... yeah, there's a formula. It would be like me telling you that you're being 'formulaic' because "you just heated, mashed, boiled, and pitched yeast... just like you did on EVERY other brew you've ever done... sheesh". It's called doing what works, and this format resonates with viewers. The thing is, even if the form bothers you, the substance of the show should be appreciated by all of us... I'm not saying you have to watch it. I'm not even saying you have to like it all that much. I just can't believe that this thing we do, that we have to constantly try to explain, justify, put into layman's terms, etc, for the people in our lives... this thing is finally on a mainstream cable channel. It's getting some validation, and it's only going to mean more homebrewers... how is that possibly a bad thing? Why are people nitpicking and assuming Sam's a jerk or a clown, that his beer sucks... that they could make better beer... that they lied on camera just to score points in an industry that's ALREADY treating them very well.

This discussion is, for many people in it, merely about finding the worst in it and ignoring the rest. I suppose someone could make the same assertion about me and not be totally incorrect, given the amount of effort I'm putting into trying to get people to see that they're acting unreasonably.

I love the show... I think it's amazing that this is on TV. Out of the 14 or so DFH beers I've tried, I only like about 4 of them for regular consumption... I enjoyed tasting them all though. They were ALL very well-made beers, but they definitely cater to off-centered tastes, as they say. I think it's a truly American story of someone going where there passions lead them, and doing what they love doing and being successful at it.

Do I think the format's cheesy? Sure... but it works for the general populace. Do I think DFH is the best brewery in the world? No, not even in my top 5. Do I think Sam's a goofball? Of course he is, you'd have to be to maintain your sanity in that industry... the other choice is to join the "5 percent".

I apologize if I've offended, but this would be a far more productive discussion if everyone took 5 seconds just to reflect how awesome it is that this show even exists, like it or not. :)



Yes, using the "quote feature" ... you should look into it.



*sigh*

No, that's not what I was saying... I was merely trying to argue that there's a certain sense in which all of us shoudl be glad this is one the air, and be "fans", even if the format is annoying to us or we don't particularly like DFH beers. I'm an Administrator at the Internet's largest invertebrate keeper's forum, and there is a similar situation right now with a show called "Bugging Out" ... it's an internet dealer named Ken who's dealing with a similar "crisis of the week". All of us are behind the show and voting for it to continue, even though many of us really don't care for it... why? Because not in a hundred years did anyone in that hobby think that a show about it would end up on mainstream TV. I've spent the last decade trying to explain to people how tarantulas aren't going to kill them, no all snakes aren't venomous, why spiders aren't going to lay eggs in their ears at night, and how on earth these "life threatening creatures" can be kept safely at home... well, here's a show that introduces many of these concepts in the "easily palatable formula" that the viewing public is used to.

I guess that's where I'm coming from... there are 100 ways this show could be done. Yes, they could give tons of super-geeky minutiae that would be interesting to US, but would probably mean a weekly viewership of 10,000... as opposed to this format which draws in significantly more. We should all be happy this is getting produced AT ALL... whether or not we actually LIKE the show should be almost secondary. We should all appreciate the fact that this show is even on.

Shouldn't we?

Again, apologies at any offense. In my defense, I was only KINDA telling you what to do. :)
Click to expand...


Whoever typed this much obviously cares way too much.
 
I think the show is great and entertaining. I have just got in to the hobby 4 or 5 months ago and I am loving brewing. I read about half his book before my dogs tore it to pieces all over the yard, (obviously they hated it) but his story is what many business minded individuals would like to achieve. When reading this thread earlier, i kinda agreed one person about the reality show formula which presents an unachievable problem or timetable and somehow they magically fix it or achieve their goals. So, I was pleasantly surprised to see that whole fermenter of 120 get dumped, just so I know that things can actually go wrong on the show, and not everything goes to plan.

Also I feel that the show is actually pretty educational to those of us who may not know "everything" about the large-scale craft brewing scene. Yeah I know about the whole fermentation process, ingredients, etc. However, I had no idea how much chemistry was actually involved (the "spit" chicha ep.). I've never even visited a brewery yet, so shows like this and brewingTV for example, are educational and interesting to me.

Sam obviously loves his job, and it is great to see another craft brewery hitting the mainstream audience.

Are you really taking the rap thing seriously? Because I doubt he is.

On a side note, DFH Raison D'Etre is definitely in my top 5 beers, I love it, but i won't marry it.
 

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