Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

12 days in primary and this is looking like its almost done, but its nowhere near clear. How long does this stuff usually take to clear out? I've been spoiled by the whirlfloc in my AG batches

Okay I have been reading for weeks now and decided to give this a try. Everything for the most part is per recipe but I used 2lbs Amber DME and 2oz of the wheat. Also before the boil I decided to simmer, .25gal water added one cinnamon stick, 1/4tsp cloves, all spice and fresh ground nutmeg, 1/4 cup light brown sugar and 1/4 cup buckwheat honey. Once this was done I did everything per recipe. I cooled the wort with my chiller and topped it off with fresh pressed cider from an orchard in San Bernardino CA. I used Nottingham yeast that was re hydrated and shook the hell out of the carboy. I have it in my mini fridge set @ 62-65 degrees and its bubbling like crazy. My OG reading was 1.60 i cant wait to taste this, every time i open my mini fridge its an amazing apple aroma! Oh my hops used were Kent Goldings.

After 3 weeks in the primary I secondaried the Graff, but it's still very cloudy. I will keep any eye on it and let you know when it clears, hopefully soon!

FWIW, I cooled my wort to 80 before adding it to the juice in the primary. I didn't use pectic enzyme though but I did use Irish moss in the boil. Hoping it clears as I want to bottle and carbonate to have it ready for thanksgiving.

Yeah, I had the cider in the fridge before I added it to the carboy and I put my brewpot in a cold water bath in the sink until it was down to about 120°F~140°F-ish. No whirlfloc or irish moss, but I did use some pectic enzyme. I did move my graff to a slightly warmer closet (62°F up to 68°F) and the 1056 got active again, so no hope of it settling for at least another couple of days/weeks. Guess I'll just wait some more!

OK, I've sifted through sections of this 181 page forum and came up with a few questions that don't seem to be answered clearly for me yet. Here they are. Simple short answers work!
1. Do I prime the bottles and if so, how much and what kinda sugar works best?
2. Do I use something like Mott's apple juice or a store bought apple cider like you'd find at walmart? Not necessarily the imitation cider, but the actual apple cider you find in the deli section?

Can't wait to brew this up!!!!!!!

Just made this with the leftover wort from a pumpkin ale. The ale was modeled after a Southern Tier Pumpking and I used fresh pressed cider from a local orchard. Can't wait to see how it turns out since it's the first time in 4 batches that I haven't used Motts

scorpionc53 said:

OK, I've sifted through sections of this 181 page forum and came up with a few questions that don't seem to be answered clearly for me yet. Here they are. Simple short answers work!
1. Do I prime the bottles and if so, how much and what kinda sugar works best?
2. Do I use something like Mott's apple juice or a store bought apple cider like you'd find at walmart? Not necessarily the imitation cider, but the actual apple cider you find in the deli section?

Can't wait to brew this up!!!!!!!

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I primed this like I would any other beer. All the same rules should apply.

I've done it with both store bought apple juice and fresh cider. If you're gonna use cider make sure it doesn't have potassium sorbate added. Most of the ciders I found at supermarkets had this stuff in it so I ended up having to get fresh cider from a local orchard through my LHBS.

For store bought juice, you want something where the only ingredient is apple juice (ascorbic acid / vitamin C is ok too). The last batch I made I used Mott's "Natural" and it turned out pretty well.

Fist batch of Graff. Almost gone in less tag a week. Second batch it's on the way. This time added 1 oz of Fuggel hops. The woodsy, citrusy flavor should pair well with with the apple cider. This stuff is out of this world.

How old was it in that picture?

@paquitin that looks awesome!


I just brewer the Austin Homebrew "Apple Peeler" kit. Based on the comments in this thread, I am really excited to try it. It has been in the fermenter since 10/13. My kit used about a half lb of honey malt, 3 lbs of extra pale LME and 3 gallons of AJ. Also used an oz of bittering hops. Can't wait to keg it!

mike_in_ak said:

How old was it in that picture?

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It is 7 weeks old.

seatbelt123 said:

@paquitin that looks awesome!

I just brewer the Austin Homebrew "Apple Peeler" kit. Based on the comments in this thread, I am really excited to try it. It has been in the fermenter since 10/13. My kit used about a half lb of honey malt, 3 lbs of extra pale LME and 3 gallons of AJ. Also used an oz of bittering hops. Can't wait to keg it!

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Let me know how it comes out.

Last night, I cracked a bottle after 1 week conditioning. I was giving some to a friend and wanted to taste it for myself. It was still cloudy (I never racked to secondary) which I didn't mind. It was already nicely carbed but another week will do it well. The hoppy aroma threw me off as I was thinking 'this is a cider' but after the first few pulls I realized how complex the malt, cider, and hops were together. The second half of the glass went down quickly. The ABV calculated to 5.8% but it seemed to give a bigger buzz than a beer with similar ABV. I'll have to be careful!

I also just had one after a week in bottles. Definitely on the way. Mine wasn't hoppy at all though, which was working as intended I believe.

Has anyone tried this recipe with wyeast 3942 belgian wheat?

Well I'm at 1.020 after 5 days, starting from about 1.050 using safale 04. I've kept the temp around 64 (mini fridge, temp prob). I'm surprise it's not lower. I gave it a stir and eased the temp by 2f.

Any ideas on what's going on here?

Don't stir it anymore. Leave it alone for another week. 5 days isn't long enough to finish fermentation. Mine usually finishes at 1.010. RDWHAHB.

SOAB>[ I just figured out that I doubled my hop addition. And Brandon STRESSED not to add more than .5 oz. I used cascade. I'm 15 mins into my boil. What do I do? Scrap the batch or go with it?

scorpionc53 said:

SOAB>[ I just figured out that I doubled my hop addition. And Brandon STRESSED not to add more than .5 oz. I used cascade. I'm 15 mins into my boil. What do I do? Scrap the batch or go with it?

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Go for it.

scorpionc53 said:

SOAB>[ I just figured out that I doubled my hop addition. And Brandon STRESSED not to add more than .5 oz. I used cascade. I'm 15 mins into my boil. What do I do? Scrap the batch or go with it?

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You could make a second batch with no hops and mix them 50/50.

I went for it. My original name was Timebomb Graf, but I've renamed this batch to Hoppy Graf. And it works cause the hops will probably be balanced out by Easter!

CrackyMcZap said:

You could make a second batch with no hops and mix them 50/50.

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My LHBS is 1.5 hours away. I would have done this if I had a closer one. A double batch, oh yeah!

scorpionc53 said:

I went for it. My original name was Timebomb Graf, but I've renamed this batch to Hoppy Graf. And it works cause the hops will probably be balanced out by Easter!

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I just did one with 40 IBUs. Not kegged yet but the sample tasted great.

Problem number 2 with my botched batch, the blowoff tube blew out sometime in the last 10 hours. I put the tube back in and taped it down. Within 1 minute it started bubbling again. I'm assuming I'm ok still?

scorpionc53 said:

Problem number 2 with my botched batch, the blowoff tube blew out sometime in the last 10 hours. I put the tube back in and taped it down. Within 1 minute it started bubbling again. I'm assuming I'm ok still?

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Your fine, RDWHAHB

DakotaRules said:

Your fine, RDWHAHB

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Thanks. I'm gonna RDWH10HB since its football Sunday!

hopbrad said:

tasted my first bottle after 17 days in the bottle. it was decent but a little tart n dry. giving it another 2-3 weeks then popping another.

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had some more this weekend, its really getting good, 5.5 weeks in the bottle now. the tartness has mellowed, and dryness has given way to some good apple notes and sweetness, almost champagney. i think the regular "3 week rule" is a little short and 5+ weeks is needed for conditioning but regardless, i am going to keep this one in my rotation and plan on busting this out for my fam and friends now and keep a 6er around for some long aging. i used t-58 as my yeast and no torrified wheat fyi. thanks for the recipe

Brewed this over the summer and let it sit in primary for a few months. No infection issues, but in my opinion this stuff is awful. I keep hoping it comes around. Does it evolve over time? For me, I'll take Apfelwein over this every time.

Brobe

Going into week three in the primary..Still a layer of krausen with what looks like flakes of oatmeal. (none in recipe) Smells OK. Fermentation has slowed. Very cloudy. I used unfiltered cider, but didn't know about Pectic Enzyme. Looks a lot messier, at this stage, than any beer/ale I've done. I'm thinking time is the solution?

The is so beautiful.

brobeman said:

Brewed this over the summer and let it sit in primary for a few months. No infection issues, but in my opinion this stuff is awful. I keep hoping it comes around. Does it evolve over time? For me, I'll take Apfelwein over this every time.

Brobe

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This may be the problem. Personally, I don't understand why anyone would choose Apfelwein over Graff.

I do wonder if that played a role. The batch has a lot of awkward tartness and some very off putting aroma. Only trouble is that i am not ready to risk 5 more gallons that might turn out similar. Perhaps I will brew up a one gallon batch to bottle for a second go around.

Brobeman

I brewed some of this up a year ago and I hated every drop of it. By far the worst thing I've brewed since starting to brew.... At least IMO. It never really mellowed out and I gave it 6-8 months.... Oh well, to each their own

I went a slightly different route and just racked 15L of Supermarket AJ onto 5L of fermented 7.85% ABV IPA that I saved from bottling and innoculated with harvested Gen1 S05 slurry. I wasn't sure what to expect but thought I'd give it a go anyways as I read a previous poster doing something similar.

I'm so glad that I did as this was VERY drinkable after a week (although dry @1.001 which I actually like), so much so that every beer bottling day will be Graff day!! for the small sacrifice of beer (~15%) it takes to make this it's a no brainer and makes the wait between beers so much more bearable.

Thanks to the OP, MacrosNZ for the heads up and beeton for the idea

Anyone use all dark or all amber DME to make it darker?

Tubbster85 said:

Anyone use all dark or all amber DME to make it darker?

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I used a combination of amber dme and dark amber dme. It turned out great. I did back sweeten it though.

Why did you back sweeten it? I've never made cider before, just drank some scrumpys the other day and looked into this recipe and it looks really good.

Tubbster85 said:

Why did you back sweeten it? I've never made cider before, just drank some scrumpys the other day and looked into this recipe and it looks really good.

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It was going to be dry and tart if I didn't. If I had a few weeks to age it, I may have not. But, it's for a party this weekend. I had a month to ferment and keg/age it.

I just brewed this back in September and it turned out great. Anyone who didn't like this either screwed something up or forgot they were brewing a cider. Anyway, everyone who has tried this stuff loves it and requests have been pouring in to make more in time for Christmas. It's a very simple recipe and great autumn brew, I might even try adding a bit of some other fruit juice to give it a little something extra (cherry, pomegranate maybe?).

Well here's the final sample of the AHS Apple Peeler Graf that I brewed on 10/13. It finished at 1.012. It is pretty tart and the 60F mostly flat sample was not thrillingly good. I'll keg it this weekend and provide another update.

It is very pretty, clear and golden.