Munich Helles 2011 1st Place HBT- Light lager- Augustiner Lagerbier Hell

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Joe, thanks for the feed back and insight on the pale malt vs pilsner. I'm definitely giving that a shot for my next lagar. It would be asweome if I can cut down the 3 months lagering time to maybe just 2. changing subject, Thank you, it's been an honor to serve. Germany was tough...I lived 30 minutes from Aying, where Ayinger is brewed. Ok it wasn't tough...just blurry :drunk:. I do remember Ayinger brewery having the biggest pork schnitzels you could find. I'm talking a plate covering size portion on top of a mound of frys. And the beer was pretty awesome too.
 
JayDubWill said:
Joe, thanks for the feed back and insight on the pale malt vs pilsner. I'm definitely giving that a shot for my next lagar. It would be asweome if I can cut down the 3 months lagering time to maybe just 2. changing subject, Thank you, it's been an honor to serve. Germany was tough...I lived 30 minutes from Aying, where Ayinger is brewed. Ok it wasn't tough...just blurry :drunk:. I do remember Ayinger brewery having the biggest pork schnitzels you could find. I'm talking a plate covering size portion on top of a mound of frys. And the beer was pretty awesome too.
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That is the best!!! MMMM I can taste it now. I hate when you order a schnitzel and it is smaller than my damn hand! :off:
 
Sorry for the many times this has been asked in various iterations but I'm a lager newbie and want to make sure I got this right. Here is how I understand the fermentation, lagering and conditioning process:

Cold crash the starter and chill the wort to about 48F, decant spent wort from starter and pitch the slurry with much aeration and agitation. Raise temperature to 51F. (This part I have completed)

Ferment until about 75% complete, about 30 SG points in this case (about 9-14 days), then warm to 65ish. Leave in diacetyl rest for between two days and a week (haven't quite figured that out).

Then step down the temperature about 5 degrees F per day to 39F (about 5 days). Leave at lagering temperature for 2-3 weeks and maybe drop to 34F for the last part of that.

Bottle with the typical addition of sugar but no additional yeast. I'm not sure what temperature to leave this at but I am assuming 51F (Is that correct?). Bottle condition for at least three weeks.

Am I understanding this process or not? Any comments welcome.
 
Brewitt, you described pretty much exactly how I lager my beers. The only thing I do different is I don't cold crash and decant the yeast starter. I generally just swirl the whole 2 liters up and dump it into the wort with both at room temperature. I then stick it in my fermentation chamber (chest freezer with temp controller) already pre-set to 50F and just let it go. I also found I've reached with 10 points of FG in about 4 days. Which generally corresponds to when the kreusen falls, but that's NOT a good indicator. It's at this point that I raise the temp from 50F to 60F at about 2~4 degreees/day for the D-rest. As far as the actual lagering, the colder the better, but it also takes longer. I've got a German Helles that tastes good after 3 months of lagering at 42F, but I'll let it sit another month to mellow out even more. I once read somewhere that for each percentage point of alcohol expect to lager for a month. That seems to be a good rule of thumb in my experience, but I let my taste buds guide me for the most part.
 
Brewitt said:
Sorry for the many times this has been asked in various iterations but I'm a lager newbie and want to make sure I got this right. Here is how I understand the fermentation, lagering and conditioning process:

Cold crash the starter and chill the wort to about 48F, decant spent wort from starter and pitch the slurry with much aeration and agitation. Raise temperature to 51F. (This part I have completed)

Ferment until about 75% complete, about 30 SG points in this case (about 9-14 days), then warm to 65ish. Leave in diacetyl rest for between two days and a week (haven't quite figured that out).

Then step down the temperature about 5 degrees F per day to 39F (about 5 days). Leave at lagering temperature for 2-3 weeks and maybe drop to 34F for the last part of that.

Bottle with the typical addition of sugar but no additional yeast. I'm not sure what temperature to leave this at but I am assuming 51F (Is that correct?). Bottle condition for at least three weeks.

Am I understanding this process or not? Any comments welcome.
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Brewitt,

Never hesitate to ask questions. I don't think anybody in this thread will have a problem with multiple questions. Lagers are a difficult beer to brew.

Let's see. I follow your procedure pretty closely. If I start my starter several days before brewing I will put it in my normal fridge the night before. Decant it right before pitching. Always pitch colder yeast into warmer wort and then let is warm a few degrees more.

Yeast- 35 degrees, wort- 45 (or so) degrees, pitch and let it rise to 48-51. Let the warming beer activate your yeast and the whole thing takes off nicely. This really keeps the esters at bay and allows the lager yeast to work.

As far as fermentation- We are pretty close but I still use a secondary (and I think you should for a lager). Ferment about a week at 50 degrees, as the fermentation slows, move the beer to a warmer place for your diacetyl rest for 3 to 7 days. If the beer is not clear enough for you feel free to slowly lower the temperature over several days to just above freezing. Don't shock it by quickly dropping the temperature. Rack it to secondary and lager at 38 degrees for as long as you'd like. At least 3 weeks.

Keg or bottle from there and enjoy. You are going to shock your friends with this beer if it's brewed correctly.

Please keep us updated and post pictures when possible. I have 10 gallons recently kegged and I promise to post pictures when we dive in!
 
Thank you all for the suggestions. I will likely follow our OPs suggestions for starters, seems he did well with that approach. I'm hopping to shock myself and then my friends. I'm always surprised at just how well my homebrew turns out. Well, there's a mediocre one now and then but mostly I surprise myself. I'm hoping this one is no different. Can't say I have anything to compare it to since I've never tried the beer I'm hoping to clone.
 
Brewitt said:
Thank you all for the suggestions. I will likely follow our OPs suggestions for starters, seems he did well with that approach. I'm hopping to shock myself and then my friends. I'm always surprised at just how well my homebrew turns out. Well, there's a mediocre one now and then but mostly I surprise myself. I'm hoping this one is no different. Can't say I have anything to compare it to since I've never tried the beer I'm hoping to clone.
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"I will likely follow our OPs suggestions for starters, seems he did well with that approach."

Ha, that's funny...... that OP guy can really brew. :rockin:
 
Final question (yeah, sure): What temperature should I carb at in bottles? 50F, 65F? Thanks for any input. I'm trying to get all my temps and dates figured out since I'm going to be traveling a lot from now til mid July.

By the way, its 5 days and I've dropped from 1.058 (hit that a little high) to 1.023 (about 80% of the way to FG of about 1.014) so I'm starting to push the temp up to 60-65F over a few days. Seems pretty fast but fits with what JayDubWill says.

Gonna be interesting, nice color. Letting the hydrometer sample cool and settle for a taste.
 
Brewitt said:
Final question (yeah, sure): What temperature should I carb at in bottles? 50F, 65F? Thanks for any input. I'm trying to get all my temps and dates figured out since I'm going to be traveling a lot from now til mid July.
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From my experience and others' comments, carb temp doesn't really matter as long as it's within the normal "room temperature" range. Regardless of style, I carb at 72F or so--my apartment ambient--and have never had unexpected or unpredictable results, this beer included.

P.S. Encinitas is awesome! My aunt and uncle live and own a small business there. Always have a great time visiting (and stopping by Pizza Port down in Solana Beach). :mug:
 
borden said:
P.S. Encinitas is awesome! My aunt and uncle live and own a small business there. Always have a great time visiting (and stopping by Pizza Port down in Solana Beach). :mug:
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Thanks for the answer. Yep. Love Pizza Port and their breweries: Port Brewing and Lost Abbey. If you haven't been to Encinitas lately, there are a bunch of great new pubs downtown. My favorite is Encinitas Ale House.
 
Brewitt said:
Thanks for the answer. Yep. Love Pizza Port and their breweries: Port Brewing and Lost Abbey. If you haven't been to Encinitas lately, there are a bunch of great new pubs downtown. My favorite is Encinitas Ale House.
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I was out there just last month and finally checked out the Stone facility in Escondido, but I still have a lot of work to do in the region in terms of tours. Went down to the Ale House after looking for running grunion, but they were closed -- I hope to be out again in the not so far off future, so will definitely have to plan ahead a little better. I've heard great things about Green Flash too.

And I guess I should do the plug: if you ever need anything framed, check out First Street Gallery on the 101, across from the Lumberyard!
 
OK, a new question. I fermented to 80% of the way to the target FG of 1.014, shifted to 65 degrees for 5 days, then I just started dropping 5 degrees every 12 hours or so to 34 degrees, left it for 3 days and then transferred to the secondary. Problem is, i didn't have time to check the SG during that period and only did it on transfer. Now I find the SG is only at 1.020 (only 3 points down from the time of the shift up to the rest temperature). It tastes good but a little sweet. I brought it up to 40 for a month or so of lagering but now I am wondering whether I need to do something else to get this thing fermented out and dried up, or will it happen during layering. Any advice appreciated.
 
Brewitt said:
OK, a new question. I fermented to 80% of the way to the target FG of 1.014, shifted to 65 degrees for 5 days, then I just started dropping 5 degrees every 12 hours or so to 34 degrees, left it for 3 days and then transferred to the secondary. Problem is, i didn't have time to check the SG during that period and only did it on transfer. Now I find the SG is only at 1.020 (only 3 points down from the time of the shift up to the rest temperature). It tastes good but a little sweet. I brought it up to 40 for a month or so of lagering but now I am wondering whether I need to do something else to get this thing fermented out and dried up, or will it happen during layering. Any advice appreciated.
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Sounds like you did everything right. I've had beers in the past stall at 1.020 for no reason I can put my finger on. It could be anything from the mash schedule to lack of oxygen during fermentation. You could try bringing it up to 50F and adding a yeast energizer. Let it sit for a week or two and see what happens. There's a bunch of threads on stuck fermentation that might help.
 
Joe Dragon said:
Thank you very much for the congrats.

This is the system I have been using lately. It's from Northern Brewer's site.

Gelatin is an excellent clarifier for homebrewers. It's cheap, easy to get, removes tannins and chill haze... with no ill effects.

There's been some debate over how to use it. I talked to a VERY experienced pastry chef (my Grandma-in-law) and she said I've been doing it wrong. Here's what she said (for using granulated gelatin, not sheets);

Use a glass jar, and fill it with a cup or cup-and-a-half of tap water. Not hot or warm or cold.... just cool. About 70-80 degrees. Put 1-3 teaspoons of gelatin in there and let it sit for 20 minutes. Swirl it up good (it will be cloudy) and pop it into the microwave. Set it for about a minute, but you need to watch it and take it out as soon as it's clear. The glass will be warm.

She said if you try to dissolve it in hot water, it clumps up, and cold water won't soften it up like you want. Never boil it (unless that is in the recipe).

Well, there ya have it. I've tried it twice now and it works perfectly.
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Brewing 10 gallons of this on Sunday. Awesome, thanks!!
 
Just brewed a variant on this since my first run at it was so good. Using US-05 and the Zythos hops blend. Can't wait to get it bottled next week -- it's getting hot out. :mug:
 
kitemanks said:
Nice! I almost forgot about this recipe until I got the emails on the thread recently...ya know how it is brewing for friends and Super bowl, but I want to do this one for me. I've pretty much got my landshark, and corona clone down time to brew this one next. Thanks and happy brewing:tank:
Click to expand...
Can you share the Landshark recipe please?
 
Just bottled 5 gallons of this today. Only changes were that I boosted the base malt for a final ABV of 5.5% and I dry-hopped with an ounce of Saaz and and ounce of Citra pellets for 5 days at 65F. I tasted the final gravity sample of 1.018 (final ABV 5.3%). The aroma was noticeably fruity and spicy consistent with the hop profile and maltiness. The flavor was surprisingly fruity, bright and refreshing with just a slight sweetness from the firm malt backbone. I didn't expect this from a lager (my first, by the way). I believe I am going to like this beer a lot and will regret not making 10 gallons. Guess I better be doing another batch soon.
 
Made this today. This is my first lager. Everything went well hit a 1.057 for my OG. My wife loved the taste of the wort. It looks real promising. Biggest problem I had was getting my pitch temp down. The ground water temp is so high right now. I need to break out my old wort chiller and use it to prechill my Therminator next time. I'll report back in a month or so after it's kegged with some results.
 
OK. So I only waited two weeks in the bottle instead of three as I had promised myself. That said, I think three was a record. But this was my first lager. Turned out just as i suspected from the final gravity sample. Light refreshing but with a solid malt backbone. Came out beautifully and, for a change, I got the carbonation right. Good fizz and beautiful white head. Happy, happy!
Pics to follow:

And many thanks to the OP for a beautiful recipe and the advice.
 
Brewitt said:
OK. So I only waited two weeks in the bottle instead of three as I had promised myself. That said, I think three was a record. But this was my first lager. Turned out just as i suspected from the final gravity sample. Light refreshing but with a solid malt backbone. Came out beautifully and, for a change, I got the carbonation right. Good fizz and beautiful white head. Happy, happy!
Pics to follow:

And many thanks to the OP for a beautiful recipe and the advice.
Click to expand...

Brewitt,

You are very welcome and that's just outstanding. I'm thrilled that you were able to brew this beer, crack one open and enjoy it.
You should also be very proud of yourself as this is a very difficult beer in a complex style. GREAT JOB!
I have 10 gallons slowly clearing in a couple kegs. When they are ready I'll snap off a picture of a liter and post it here.
I can't wait to see your Munich Helles photo. We will "virtually" toast a fine German Lager.

PROST!!!!
 
Joe Dragon said:
Brewitt,

You are very welcome and that's just outstanding. I'm thrilled that you were able to brew this beer, crack one open and enjoy it.
You should also be very proud of yourself as this is a very difficult beer in a complex style. GREAT JOB!
I have 10 gallons slowly clearing in a couple kegs. When they are ready I'll snap off a picture of a liter and post it here.
I can't wait to see your Munich Helles photo. We will "virtually" toast a fine German Lager.

PROST!!!!
Click to expand...

Thanks! Here are two photos of my brew. It is still pretty cloudy so I am cold crashing a bunch of the bottles now. However, it still tastes and looks great. The head is absolutely astounding, like whipped cream with "soft peaks" when you stick in your finger and pull it out. I think the lacing and stability are pretty clear from the second shot. One happy homebrewer!

Augustiner Lagerbier 1.jpg


Augustiner Lagerbier 2.jpg
 
Joe Dragon said:
Thank you very much for the congrats.

This is the system I have been using lately. It's from Northern Brewer's site.

Gelatin is an excellent clarifier for homebrewers. It's cheap, easy to get, removes tannins and chill haze... with no ill effects.

There's been some debate over how to use it. I talked to a VERY experienced pastry chef (my Grandma-in-law) and she said I've been doing it wrong. Here's what she said (for using granulated gelatin, not sheets);

Use a glass jar, and fill it with a cup or cup-and-a-half of tap water. Not hot or warm or cold.... just cool. About 70-80 degrees. Put 1-3 teaspoons of gelatin in there and let it sit for 20 minutes. Swirl it up good (it will be cloudy) and pop it into the microwave. Set it for about a minute, but you need to watch it and take it out as soon as it's clear. The glass will be warm.

She said if you try to dissolve it in hot water, it clumps up, and cold water won't soften it up like you want. Never boil it (unless that is in the recipe).

Well, there ya have it. I've tried it twice now and it works perfectly.
Click to expand...
I used this method on an Irish Red that sat for 2.5 months and it cleared up in about a week or so. Thanks for the tips!
Cheers
 
Joe Dragon said:
Hey Jay-DW,

I used to brew a lot of beers with mostly Pilsner malt but I never did care for the intense graininess I experienced. One day I was brewing a Standard American Lager but only had 4 pounds of Pilsner. I used that grain and finished the bill with 2-row.

That SAL won Best of Show out of 94 beers. I haven't looked back and have not brewed a lager with mostly Pilsner since. Several pounds of Pils gives you a bit of the classic Pils flavor and aroma without the graininess.

No reason for the 90 minute boil other than that's just how I roll. 90 minute mash and 90 minute boil. One reason may be that I like to add my hops after the hot break has been established. That means at least a 75 minute boil so I just go 90. No real need.

Love your "favorite" beer selection.

I'm not being cliche or silly when I say- than you for serving our country. My dad served in the Korean War from '50 to '54. I appreciate your efforts.
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I just wanted to follow up to this since I did actually brew this and am enjoying it right now. This is my 4th Helles i've brewed and every one of them needed to be lagered for 3 months before I found them quaffable and my Bavarian wife gave them the thumbs up. On this attempt I found it very drinkable but hazy after 1 month of lagering (first pic). I posted in another post (in this thread) what my lager method is if anyone is interested. This recipe wasn't intensely grainy as my prior lagers with, all Pilsner malt, were at this point but still not Helles quality in my opinion, so I let it sit another month and tasted it again. It was better, a little clearer and the head had developed nicely but it still needed longer. The beer is now at the three month mark for lagering at about 36F and is simply delicious. It's cleared up nicely with a thick head that lasts good long while and leaves nice lacing on the glass. It's a shade or two darker than what I would have liked, but I think still in the rang of where it should be. No detectable hop aroma but you do get a sweet malt aroma and a hint of alcohol. I consider it spot on for the style. The taste is malty up front quickly followed by a pleasing bitterness that lingers. I can't really pick out the munich malt. If I could change one thing I might knock the IBU's down from the estimated 25 to 20.





 
Brewitt said:
Thanks! Here are two photos of my brew. It is still pretty cloudy so I am cold crashing a bunch of the bottles now. However, it still tastes and looks great. The head is absolutely astounding, like whipped cream with "soft peaks" when you stick in your finger and pull it out. I think the lacing and stability are pretty clear from the second shot. One happy homebrewer!
Click to expand...

Astounding head is a good way to describe it! Amazingly good job on that one!
 
I don't know what Joe Draggons recipe looks like for land shark but be sure that you skunk the beer by allowing it to be hit by indirect sunlight for at least a week. That will help give many recipes that special something they are missing.
 
Made this one yesterday.
I Misjudged my mash volume and had to hold back a few pounds of base malt but I think it will be fine.
I used Whitelabs Southern German Lager for one 5 gallons run and Safel dry lager yeast for the other. I should have waited till it cooled a little more to pitch but I think it will turn out ok.
 
I made a 10 gallon batch.
It was Excellent!
2.00 tsp
Lactic Acid (Mash 60.0 mins)
Water Agent
4 lbs 8.0 oz
Pale Ale (Crisp) (4.0 SRM)
4 lbs 8.0 oz
Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
4 lbs 8.0 oz
Pilsen Malt 2-Row (Briess) (1.0 SRM)
12.0 oz
Carapils (Briess) (1.5 SRM)
12.0 oz
Munich 10L (Briess) (10.0 SRM)
8.0 oz
Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM)
51.00 g
Hallertauer [4.80 %] - Boil 60.0 min
2.00 tsp
Irish Moss (Boil 15.0 mins)
1.00 tsp
Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins)
4.0 pkg
Saflager Lager (DCL/Fermentis #W-34/70) [50.28 ml]
2.0 pkg
Munich Lager (Wyeast Labs #2308) [124.21 ml]
 
justkev52 said:
Made a 10 gallon batch.
Started lagering the Landshark this weekend.10-13-13
Hydro samples were AMAZING!!
Can't wait to try this one.
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Outstanding Kev! It's another difficult style. Unfortunately it's frowned upon by many.

Please provide updates and pictures whenever possible.
 
Tried this beer...it was very good...a bunch of people really liked it...my dad is even talking about setting up a kegging system, so I can make this for him to have at his house. He normally doesn't care for homebrew much. Thanks
 
I brewed this with Wyeast 2565 at its low end (55F) and it turned out fantastic. I would highly recommend using Kolsch yeast with this.
 

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