My Hop Trellis

I’m planning on putting a hop trellis in my backyard in the Chicago suburbs. I've got 4 rhizomes coming from Farmhouse Brewing Supply: Hallertau, Centennial, Cascade, Willamette. The space is 5’ x 7.5’ (the staked out area in the picture below), most likely. So far I’ve purchased an 8’ Red Cedar 4x4 from Menard’s and I have a 16’ Red Cedar 4x4 being delivered to a local lumberyard in the next week or two. The 16’ will be my vertical, and the 8’ will get cut down to a 6’ T and the support braces. My plan is to go 42 inches deep with the vertical, leaving 12.5' above ground. My plan is to use maybe an inch or so of gravel at the very bottom to create a flat surface, then put the trellis in, and fill the gaps with gravel. I know that this won't give as much support as concrete, but it should be better support and better drainage than dirt, right? I'm going to have tie downs in 4 spots, using just some 18 inch wood stakes and some 3/8" sisal rope to both stabilize the pole and give the hops something to grow on. The rope will hook onto some J Hooks, so I can just lift them from the hooks when I harvest.

Below is a picture, plans from Google SketchUp, and some questions. Any advice you guys can provide would be great. Once I get around to building it, probably in 2 weeks, I'll post pictures of the project.

1. Does 42 inches seem deep enough? Too deep?
2. Has anyone else done a trellis of similar size, not used concrete, and been happy with it? I'd prefer to not use it if I don't have to.
3. I've read that 3/8" sisal is good for the hops to climb on, but do most people use something different/stronger as tie downs to support the post?
4. Does the spacing/ placement of the rhizomes look good?

Seems pretty heavy duty. Firstly, I would skip gravel and concrete unless you want a permanent installation. If it is an experiment through the season then just stick with dirt. If permanent, mix concrete. The work is about the same as gravel anyway. The gravel isn't going to help on the bottom of the hole. You won't have near the weight needed to sink the pole, and imagine having to remove that gravel later. Just don't dig any deeper than the depth needed. The key is compaction. 42" is a deep hole. Good luck trying to dig that. If you use dirt to back fill, it ain't going nowhere. You just need to make sure to tamp the soil compact with a tamper or a 2x4. Dig the hole as narrow as possible, tamp the bottom, place the pole in, add soil, tamp, add water, soil, tamp, repeat in 6" increments.

Badbrew makes some good points about the 42" hole being a piece of work. It sounds like you've already ordered the 16' lumber. However, keep in mind that any lumber, especially untreated, is going to succumb to the elements eventually, especially buried under ground in an environment that is routinely watered. Galvanized fence posts are a more lasting option, imho, and you can couple two 8' pieces together to get the same height. As for support lines anchored with 18" stakes, this seems like the weak point to me. Buried cinder blocks are a more heavy duty option if you're looking for one. The spacing of your plants looks good; however, I reckon you may find a bit of a tangle toward the top eventually, as the plants should reach 12.5' and still be stretching to get up higher, which could lead to a jumble of bines toward the top. Not a big deal, really, but it makes separating varieties a bit trickier.

Have you considered extending the bed longer and using that pine tree as an anchor point and the stringing the line from there to another post. Another idea would be to use the fence posts in your chainlink fence to run the poles up from. For example, you could lay galvanized posts right up against those and lash the two poles together. This would make harvesting a breeze since you could simply unlash the tall posts and lay them down to harvest and then set them back up afterwards, take them down in the winter, etc. If you're anything like me, what starts as five or six plants will soon turn into a frenzied obsession to devote more and more yard to the hops. That row against your fence might start looking pretty good after you burn through your first harvest and wish you had more hops in the yard...

badbrew, unless I hear otherwise, I think I'll take your advice and skip the gravel.

cram, thanks for the pine tree and or fence ideas. I considered them, and some other pvc or steel pipe options (all cheaper), but I went with the cedar mainly because my wife already hates this project, so if the end result looks ugly, she might kill me. I think the cedar trellis will look nice, even if it's going to be awful to install. As for your cinder block idea, I do have some spare cinder blocks and bricks. So you would dig 4 holes, place the blocks in there, tie the rope directly to it, and then cover them back up with dirt? Do you suggest securing an eye hook to the blocks instead of going directly to them?

Thanks

Hah! Hopefully, your wife will change her mind when the hops grow--they really are beautiful plants and can provide a privacy screen between you and your neighbor's yard. Anyhow, your trellis idea does look more aesthetically pleasing than my suggestions...

As for the cinder blocks, I haven't done this myself but I saw the idea in the book Homebrewer's Garden. From what I recall, the author had the blocks partially buried angled away from the trellis so that at least part of the hole in the block is exposed--this would be where the guy lines are attached but pay attention to the chafing that will likely occur by, perhaps, doubling it up around the block. The benefit I can see of leaving the block partially buried would be that you can hit it with the weed wacker and advertise the line a bit better, plus the line should stand up to the elements a bit better if it's not covered in wet soil...

I wonder if adding a cross-member perpendicular at the top of your T might give your individual varietals a bit more of their own bine space.

And don't let that guy from the Village People steal your hops!

brian_n said:

I’m planning on putting a hop trellis in my backyard in the Chicago suburbs. I've got 4 rhizomes coming from Farmhouse Brewing Supply: Hallertau, Centennial, Cascade, Willamette. The space is 5’ x 7.5’ (the staked out area in the picture below), most likely. So far I’ve purchased an 8’ Red Cedar 4x4 from Menard’s and I have a 16’ Red Cedar 4x4 being delivered to a local lumberyard in the next week or two. The 16’ will be my vertical, and the 8’ will get cut down to a 6’ T and the support braces. My plan is to go 42 inches deep with the vertical, leaving 12.5' above ground. My plan is to use maybe an inch or so of gravel at the very bottom to create a flat surface, then put the trellis in, and fill the gaps with gravel. I know that this won't give as much support as concrete, but it should be better support and better drainage than dirt, right? I'm going to have tie downs in 4 spots, using just some 18 inch wood stakes and some 3/8" sisal rope to both stabilize the pole and give the hops something to grow on. The rope will hook onto some J Hooks, so I can just lift them from the hooks when I harvest.

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I see you're in my neck of the woods. I have attached a pic of my trellis (that can be seen from Wheeling Road, LOL).

I extended mine last year from 13 feet to 17.5 feet and they still over-grew the top line.

A few thoughts:
- The space you have is a bit on the small side for 4 different varieties. You are likely to have some serious tangling of side-arms, especially considering my next point
- 12-13 feet is simply not ideal. They will grow into a huge mass at the top and it will make inter-tangling worse.
- anything you can do to space the top anchor points as much as possible will be beneficial in the end.
- My only concern about your "T" structure would be any twisting forces in the wind.
- As previously mentioned, no concrete. That just traps water up against the wood. Put a little gravel or crushed stone in the bottom of the hole to allow some pooling below the bottom of the wood and back-fill with dense clay and stone that you dug up from the hole.

But, in the end, you work with what you have to work with.

Shoot me a PM if you want to swing by sometime and see my set-up or talk hops.

Damn Randar, you're still my hero!

Retrofit said:

Damn Randar, you're still my hero!

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Ok, you're starting to creep me out now.

Thanks for the tips.

I'm kinda locked in on the general design, since I already paid for the special order 16' cedar. That said, what do you think is the minimum depth below ground that I could get a way with without worrying about frost line issues and/or stability when it's windy?

I can easily make the area larger than 5' x 7.5'. If I expanded, which dimensions should get bigger? If I take the 7.5' to 10', I'd be giving the hops a little more length to grow to the top.

I work on power lines and we'd set a 15' pole 3 1/2 foot deep and we increase depth 6 inches for every 5 foot of pole from there up!

brian_n said:

Thanks for the tips.

I'm kinda locked in on the general design, since I already paid for the special order 16' cedar. That said, what do you think is the minimum depth below ground that I could get a way with without worrying about frost line issues and/or stability when it's windy?

I can easily make the area larger than 5' x 7.5'. If I expanded, which dimensions should get bigger? If I take the 7.5' to 10', I'd be giving the hops a little more length to grow to the top.

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Considering the height may be the biggest issue, not sure there is an elegant way to really get more length to your hop lines. You'll simply want to limit the area where they might become entangled so spreading them out a bit at the base will help a little bit. May not be truly ideal, but you might consider a take on my extensions and bolt the second post to the primary post to get some added height and then run a couple of galvanized pipes through it to tie off the ends of the strings in an "+" formation (again, if you aren't married to the design or married to someone who is limiting you to something as minimally obtrusive as possible)

One more question: is the 3/8" sisal rope ok to use for the tie downs of the trellis? Or should I use something stronger for the 4 tie downs and use the 3/8" rope for the bines to grow on?

Here is my trellis. It's three PT 16 foot 4x4's. I have them in concrete, but I wanted the height, so they are only a foot deep. Just to give you an idea of what your trellis may look like.

brian_n said:

One more question: is the 3/8" sisal rope ok to use for the tie downs of the trellis? Or should I use something stronger for the 4 tie downs and use the 3/8" rope for the bines to grow on?

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If you mean "tie downs" as something to have structural support, I would shy away from anything like sisal or coir unless it is exceedingly thick.

I guess here's the follow up question then:
If my 16' 4x4 is going to be 3.5' deep in the ground, do I even need tie downs that keep it from possibly blowing over? Or should the 3.5' underground and the natural pull of the sisal and bines be sufficient? homebeerbrewer, do you have anything tying yours down besides the ropes that the bines are growing on? Thanks for all the responses, in the next week or two I'll start constructing the trellis and post some pictures.

The only thing holding it up is the concrete base, and the frame of the raised garden bed. I used PT 4x4's for the bed frame, stacked two high, and bolted together. The uprights to the trellis are in a foot of concrete, and also bolted to the bed frame. It sways at the top with heavy wind, but the base doesn't budge.

Edit: I also have sisal twine for the hops to climb, and they are left somewhat loose. They are only to support the hops, not the trellis.

Randar said:

- The space you have is a bit on the small side for 4 different varieties. You are likely to have some serious tangling of side-arms, especially considering my next point
.

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What is the minimum distance to separate hop varieties so that the side branches do not mingle?

brian_n said:

I guess here's the follow up question then:
If my 16' 4x4 is going to be 3.5' deep in the ground, do I even need tie downs that keep it from possibly blowing over? Or should the 3.5' underground and the natural pull of the sisal and bines be sufficient?

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That is all about your personal comfort level and what may or may not be within striking distance of a downed trellis pole.

Oscar56 said:

What is the minimum distance to separate hop varieties so that the side branches do not mingle?

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Same varieties can be 3' apart or so. I've seen a minimum of 5' but more likely 6' for different varieties.

brian_n said:

1. Does 42 inches seem deep enough? Too deep?
2. Has anyone else done a trellis of similar size, not used concrete, and been happy with it? I'd prefer to not use it if I don't have to.
3. I've read that 3/8" sisal is good for the hops to climb on, but do most people use something different/stronger as tie downs to support the post?
4. Does the spacing/ placement of the rhizomes look good?

Click to expand...

I agree with the others, 42" is deeper than you need to go. But depending on your soil type and how you're going to dig, there's no harm in going that deep. I'd think 3' would be easier and just as effective.

I put two 24' fir trunks in about 3' deep, with no concrete or gravel. Three years later they're just as stable as ever. Some gravel underneath isn't a bad thing, to help keep the end grain of the cedar dry. But Cedar is pretty resistant to rot, so you're likely to get 15-20 years out of your trellis before even thinking about needing to replace the wood. By that time you'll want to expand anyhow.

You don't need anything stronger than the sisal rope with wood stakes. The forces applied to the system will be low enough that it'll hold just fine, even in the windy city. You can drive your stakes about 15 degrees off vertical, leaving just a few inches above ground. Tie a clove hitch around the stake. It'll be easy to snug it up more tightly if you need to.

The spacing looks adequate to me. As with the other responses, you'll probably get a tangle at the top. Any chance you could put two varieties into this system and do a second identical system? That could help a lot.

Good luck! Looking forward to pics of the final system.

Jeff

I agree with Jeff in the previous post that you don't need to go so deep. Also as mentioned, use no concrete. Just use native soil and tamp well.
For my 16 cascades, I used 20' 4X4's from Menards and they are in 36" tamped with native soil. I also use 3/8" sisal twine which will only last one season.

wolverinebrewer said:

I agree with Jeff in the previous post that you don't need to go so deep. Also as mentioned, use no concrete. Just use native soil and tamp well.
For my 16 cascades, I used 20' 4X4's from Menards and they are in 36" tamped with native soil. I also use 3/8" sisal twine which will only last one season.

View attachment 54624

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That's an impressive row of hops you got there

dcHokie said:

That's an impressive row of hops you got there

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Thanks. Those were first year Cascades from Homercidal. I just received from RNV Enterprises, 4 more Cascade to finish out that row. I'll put those each on 2 twines.
Today I also potted up 8 more Chinook (have 2) and 10 Columbus so I can make another row of 20. I think I'll stop there for now.

Oscar56 said:

What is the minimum distance to separate hop varieties so that the side branches do not mingle?

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That depends on the variety of hops. Some get longer sidearms than others. Centennial get 3-4' sidearms.

I built the trellis and dug the hop garden (9x6) and post hole (about 40" deep). I think it was largely due to our good soil, but digging the hole wasnt bad at all. I got some clay but zero rocks.

I think my new plan is to use 8 J-Hooks. I'll run rope from each anchor up to one J-Hook towards the outside of the trellis, over to another J-hook by middle of trellis, and then back down to same anchor. I'm hoping this will increase my chance of being able to bring each set of bines down on their own and miimize tangles (wishful thinking?). There's a picture below showing the general concept (with eye hooks, not J hooks)that will be on all four sides.

Also I'm going with some gravel at base of trellis and about 39 inches of the trellis underground.

My hops arrived yesterday from Farmhouse Brewing Supply and are in fridge until tomorrow when I plant. My plan is to plant the hallertau and willamette on the sunnier southern side of the trellis and the cascade and centennial on the northern side since I've read that hallertau and willamette don't that well in this area and maybe could use the extra sun. Any thoughts on that approach?

Below are some pictures.

more pics

I did something similar 4 years ago and just packed the poll in gravel and it's been holding up just fine. My one real suggestion, which might be a bit late, would be to just go with one variety. Mine grew up and tangled together. I just called it a house blend and the next year I pulled three out.

just out of curiosity.... how do you get up there to cut them down and harvest them? I have one of those 20 ft. ladders but it's the kind you have to lean against the house.... doesn't stand on its own. Even if you had a self standing ladder it seems like it wouldn't likely be stable on the ground. So how do you get up there?

Damn. I ordered them like 2 months ago, and since then from everything I've read I've gotten the feeling that I ordered too many for this space. I'll let em go this year, see how it works, and deal with it next year if its a tangled mess I guess.

GulfCoastGirl said:

just out of curiosity.... how do you get up there to cut them down and harvest them? I have one of those 20 ft. ladders but it's the kind you have to lean against the house.... doesn't stand on its own. Even if you had a self standing ladder it seems like it wouldn't likely be stable on the ground. So how do you get up there?

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I've got a multi-position ladder that I can reach up to about 14' from the folded position.

Any updates/ pics?

Finally got around to putting my hop trellis up tonight. I decided to add some black steel pipe extensions instead of hooks in an attempt to minimize the chance of different varieties getting mixed up. Each pipe goes about a foot off the wood. We'll see if it works out. The post has about 40" in the ground, so the steel poles are about 12.5' high. Also, the Centennial seemed to be dead, so I replaced it with a Nugget rhizome from Aroostook Hops, and they're already growing pretty well.

Looking good! Now you've just got to keep them happy, and that's not hard at all. Just even water and occasional food.

I hope the pipe idea works out for you. you could always go up with scissors and separate any tangles. You'd get some mingling, but might not be bad.

Jeff

Agreed--looks really nice. It's a blast to watch them get going and take off.

Do you have a tall ladder for harvest? I'm curious how you're going to get up there...

How do hops harvest?

Do you leave the vine and it grows next year like grapes, or does it sprout again from the root like Krokus?

I've got a big ladder that allows me to get to just barely get to the top of trellis. Best case scenario is the tangling between varieties is minimal and I can pull down the string for each variety. Otherwise I may have to pick them from up on the ladder.

As for the harvest, they grow back every year so you cut them down at some point after the harvest, I think.

Dynachrome said:

How do hops harvest?

Do you leave the vine and it grows next year like grapes, or does it sprout again from the root like Krokus?

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You cut the bines down and pick the cones on the ground, they grow back the next year. Picking buckets full of cones from a ladder is for the loons.

I'm with you, Randar, that picking a grip of hops from a ladder isn't the best option. But, ideally, a way to bring the bines down, harvest, and then get them back up seems like the best option if given a choice.

Letting the plant die back on its own, correct me if I'm wrong, allows it to draw energy from the bines back into the rhizomes before over-wintering. Obviously, they are hardy plants and will do just fine either way, and I understand the commercial folks' reasoning for cutting them down and not stringing them back up, but for the homegrown with a manageable number of plants, I think this is the best practice. (Then again, I'm not getting two to three pounds per plant, so what do I know?)

Brian, it looks like your set-up might make it impractical to lower the bines based on how the lines are strung and, even if you set it up next year so each one could be lowered, they might be tangled on top to the point that they won't lower anyhow. So the ladder or cut-down option may be the best for your case. My point is just to throw out some "food for thought" to other growers that might have different trellis set-ups, and to hear any thoughts on other opinions that challenge what I've been doing...

cram said:

I'm with you, Randar, that picking a grip of hops from a ladder isn't the best option. But, ideally, a way to bring the bines down, harvest, and then get them back up seems like the best option if given a choice.

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Commercially they are harvested by cutting them down... I do the same. I've done what you suggested when they were young. Now, it's everything I can do to keep the crowns from growing into VW Beetles... there are no ill effects on the crown from doing this, IMO.

Good to know, Randar--my oldest are four years and they are turning beastly, so I can see the convenience factor of cutting them down to harvest as they get more established. Still, lowering a bine isn't too much trouble and they do look kind of spooky come Halloween and they're all dying back and super tall... :cross: