Sweet Stout Left Hand Milk Stout Clone

So I pulled a pint out of the keg and added some flavor tinctures to it. I made a tincture from two Madagascar vanilla beans, and I made another one from orange peels. They've been sitting in the vodka for a while now and are pretty strong.

I added about 10-15 or so drops of each... I didn't really measure it.

I did the vanilla first, and it made the milk stout taste very much like milk chocolate. It kind of rounded off the roasted coffee notes and gave it a very smooth chocolate flavor. Before I added the vanilla, I thought "coffee" after, it's definitely chocolate.

I then added the orange. At first it was hard to notice, but I didn't want to overwhelm the beer with orange. After the beer had warmed up some, it came out... It tastes like one of those chocolate orange candies you get during christmas. The ones you get in foil and smash it to break the pieces. It wasn't too overwhelming or sweet, but it was definitely chocolate orange.

My original idea was "Orange cream stout" but now it's definitely chocolate orange stout. I think I might bottle some for christmas gifts. I bet it will only get better if it sat for a few weeks with the flavors in it.

Next I'm going to get some creme de menthe extract to see how well it would do as an andes mint beer. I may also add vanilla to bring out that chocolate mint vs coffee mint.

1st post here. 1st all-grain brew day approaching. Would love to pop my cherry making this but my SWMBO has a severe lactose allergy. Is maltodextrin a suitable substitute? 1lb / 5 gal? What might be the profile ramifications? Very interested to hear the forum's thoughts on this. Thank you.

brianball said:

1st post here. 1st all-grain brew day approaching. Would love to pop my cherry making this but my SWMBO has a severe lactose allergy. Is maltodextrin a suitable substitute? 1lb / 5 gal? What might be the profile ramifications? Very interested to hear the forum's thoughts on this. Thank you.

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The lactose is completely unfermentable, so maltodextrine isn't a great substitute on its own. You need to raise the mash temp in order to have more long chain sugars that the yeast can't ferment. Maybe try around 158f ???

brewski09 said:

The lactose is completely unfermentable, so maltodextrine isn't a great substitute on its own. You need to raise the mash temp in order to have more long chain sugars that the yeast can't ferment. Maybe try around 158f ???

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That makes a lot of sense -- thank you for your input brewski09! I'll give it a shot! :rockin:

Would you keep the amount at 1lb MD for a 5gal batch?

Also, might you be able to shed any light on what substituting maltodextrin for lactose would add/take away from the flavor and/or body?

Could it still pass as a milk/sweet stout or might it be perceived as something different?

I could be wrong but I think maltodextrin adds body but not sweetness. So body might be the same but you would lose the sweetness. Maybe some extra crystal malt would help make that up. You could also try mashing higher and/or using less attenuative yeast, I just brewed it with White Labs 002 and it came out great.

PRE66_6TART said:

I could be wrong but I think maltodextrin adds body but not sweetness. So body might be the same but you would lose the sweetness. Maybe some extra crystal malt would help make that up. You could also try mashing higher and/or using less attenuative yeast, I just brewed it with White Labs 002 and it came out great.

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It will as sweetness too, but long chain starch sweetness instead of lactose sweetness. I'm a fan of just mashing at a higher temp and going for a lower final gravity than the lactose. In my experience the maltose trine doesn't do anything special for my beers.

Wow, you guys are great -- thank you!

So if I do the following:

1) omit the lactose
2) skip the maltodextrin
3) add some extra crystal malt (what, like 1lb for 5gal?)
4) mash at 158, and
5) use White Labs 002

...does anyone think this wouldn't be killer?

Pretty sure SWMBO will send a big personal thanks once I get this nailed

brianball said:

Wow, you guys are great -- thank you!

So if I do the following:

1) omit the lactose
2) skip the maltodextrin
3) add some extra crystal malt (what, like 1lb for 5gal?)
4) mash at 158, and
5) use White Labs 002

...does anyone think this wouldn't be killer?

Pretty sure SWMBO will send a big personal thanks once I get this nailed

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Sounds like to much crystal to me

brianball said:

Wow, you guys are great -- thank you! So if I do the following: 1) omit the lactose 2) skip the maltodextrin 3) add some extra crystal malt (what, like 1lb for 5gal?) 4) mash at 158, and 5) use White Labs 002 ...does anyone think this wouldn't be killer? Pretty sure SWMBO will send a big personal thanks once I get this nailed

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I'm late to this bit If you are truly going for a clone or trying to get close to Left Hands then you should leave the lactose

brianball said:

Wow, you guys are great -- thank you!

So if I do the following:

1) omit the lactose
2) skip the maltodextrin
3) add some extra crystal malt (what, like 1lb for 5gal?)
4) mash at 158, and
5) use White Labs 002

...does anyone think this wouldn't be killer?

Pretty sure SWMBO will send a big personal thanks once I get this nailed

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Do you mean add an extra pound of crystal malt, or one pound total? You want to be careful going above 10% crystal. I've heard you can go up to 15% if its balanced out, but I don't know enough to say whether that would be too much here. Might be fine. Hopefully someone else knows. If you can figure out the right amount of crystal I think everything else looks great.

brianball said:

1st post here. 1st all-grain brew day approaching. Would love to pop my cherry making this but my SWMBO has a severe lactose allergy. Is maltodextrin a suitable substitute? 1lb / 5 gal? What might be the profile ramifications? Very interested to hear the forum's thoughts on this. Thank you.

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This may not be helpful, but it's my 2 cents.

Mashing higher is good advice; however, If I couldn't add lactose, I'd go with a good oatmeal stout recipe instead of messing with this one.

PRE66_6TART said:

Do you mean add an extra pound of crystal malt, or one pound total? You want to be careful going above 10% crystal. I've heard you can go up to 15% if its balanced out, but I don't know enough to say whether that would be too much here. Might be fine. Hopefully someone else knows. If you can figure out the right amount of crystal I think everything else looks great.

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Agreed. I wouldn't add more than 8oz onto this recipe the first time messing with it. I would eager a guess this is a gods beer without the lactose too. I like the 80L malts myself.

I may have missed this in the first 15 pages that I read on the thread so my apologies, but what would be the recommended carb level for this brew. I am 3 weeks in primary, still need to take a reading to make sure it's finished but will be looking to bottle half of this batch and keg the other half (10 gal batch). Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.

TJ_Brew said:

I may have missed this in the first 15 pages that I read on the thread so my apologies, but what would be the recommended carb level for this brew. I am 3 weeks in primary, still need to take a reading to make sure it's finished but will be looking to bottle half of this batch and keg the other half (10 gal batch). Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.

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I like to go a little light on this one and put some age on it. This one will age well if you have the restraint. It also gets pretty harsh with too high a carb level (we're talking over carbed though).

Thanks Brewski. I do plan to age this for a while. Even thinking of possibly aging on some Makers soaked white oak. Thoughts?

TJ_Brew said:

I may have missed this in the first 15 pages that I read on the thread so my apologies, but what would be the recommended carb level for this brew. I am 3 weeks in primary, still need to take a reading to make sure it's finished but will be looking to bottle half of this batch and keg the other half (10 gal batch). Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.

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You should stick to about 1.8 - 2 volume co2

Stouts are carbed low... Age does make this one better.

TJ_Brew said:

Thanks Brewski. I do plan to age this for a while. Even thinking of possibly aging on some Makers soaked white oak. Thoughts?

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I haven't done much oaking of my beers, but I hear a good toast is the way to go. I guess I would toast and soak.

brewski09 said:

I haven't done much oaking of my beers, but I hear a good toast is the way to go. I guess I would toast and soak.

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Exactly what I'm doing Thanks for the tip. Bottled the first 5 gal last night and had me a sample...Amazing already. Can't wait to see what time will do to it.

TJ_Brew said:

Exactly what I'm doing Thanks for the tip. Bottled the first 5 gal last night and had me a sample...Amazing already. Can't wait to see what time will do to it.

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What I really like to do on this beer is speak cocoa nibs in vodka and put the chocolate vodka in right before bottling to make a chocolate milk stout. After you think you have enough chocolate in the vodka, double it.

I brewed a very similar extract recipe 3 weeks ago. I was thinking of racking some off into my 1 gal fermenter. How much coca nibs and vodka did you use? Why do you soak the nibs in vodka?

Hopforce said:

I brewed a very similar extract recipe 3 weeks ago. I was thinking of racking some off into my 1 gal fermenter. How much coca nibs and vodka did you use? Why do you soak the nibs in vodka?

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I read somewhere that the cocoa nibs are alcohol soluble. I do a pint mason jar half full of nibs and fill to 3/4 full with vodka. Shake/stir to agitate and mix frequently. Pull nibs out and add more nibs to half full at least one more time (top of with vodka as needed). Takes a few weeks to get the whole process done, but it's worth it. I recommend aging this beer anyway, so you can leave it for a while in the 1gal fermenter. I would give it a small bit of sugar to develop a co2 blanket just to be safe. Add the cocoa vodka to taste at bottling. It doesn't take too much. The vodka tastes bitter, but the lactose sweetens it in the blended beer.

Great thank you! Where do you buy the cocoa nibs; grocery store, home brew store?

Hopforce said:

Great thank you! Where do you buy the cocoa nibs; grocery store, home brew store?

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I get them in the bulk section at one of the two whole foods in town. I know they are carried other places, but that's a good price for me and I get what I want.

Healthworks Certified Organic Raw Cacao Nibs - 16oz/1 Pound
http://amzn.com/B004EKHMXU

Whole foods has a better price, but this is a source at least.

Also, the reason I use the vodka is I got a sour infection from a batch where I direct added once.

brewski09 said:

Healthworks Certified Organic Raw Cacao Nibs - 16oz/1 Pound
http://amzn.com/B004EKHMXU

Whole foods has a better price, but this is a source at least.

Also, the reason I use the vodka is I got a sour infection from a batch where I direct added once.

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Lol, me too. Go with vodka!

Thinking of a variant on this with a cinnamon and cayenne twist. The whole vodka thing makes me wonder about making a tincture with cinnamon sticks and Absolute Pepper, maybe some nibs. Thoughts?

sivdrinks said:

Thinking of a variant on this with a cinnamon and cayenne twist. The whole vodka thing makes me wonder about making a tincture with cinnamon sticks and Absolute Pepper, maybe some nibs. Thoughts?

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If you follow the Pumking thread here on HBT rum seems to be the way to go with the cinnamon and other pie spices

brewski09 said:

If you follow the Pumking thread here on HBT rum seems to be the way to go with the cinnamon and other pie spices

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I'm down for trying flavors, my orange variation turned out great... I make tinctures and pull a pint to test before committing to my whole batch. Add it to a bottle to age it if desired. Then if it works out, upscale to the full batch.

But for some reason I cringed at the idea of putting rum in this beer...

brewski09 said:

If you follow the Pumking thread here on HBT rum seems to be the way to go with the cinnamon and other pie spices

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Gotcha, but Im looking for a bit of heat without adding cayenne so I'm thinking Absolut Pepper vodka.

Hey all-

Any consensus on British vs. American malts? I just brewed it with all Briess malts and I wasn't overly impressed with the depth of flavor. The roast was there, but didn't really stand out. I'm thinking of subbing in Crisp Roasted Barley and Chocolate to see what difference it makes.

crjpilot said:

Hey all-

Any consensus on British vs. American malts? I just brewed it with all Briess malts and I wasn't overly impressed with the depth of flavor. The roast was there, but didn't really stand out. I'm thinking of subbing in Crisp Roasted Barley and Chocolate to see what difference it makes.

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Mine is pretty close to the original with all Briess malts and with good flavors. What is your extract efficiency ??? It should be good with British malts as well.

brewski09 said:

Mine is pretty close to the original with all Briess malts and with good flavors. What is your extract efficiency ??? It should be good with British malts as well.

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Right at 75%, but this particular batch came in about 79%. Sloooow sparge. I did actually reduce the roasted barley by 4oz because my first small test batch seemed a bit bitter, but I think I'll go back to the original amount and try again.

crjpilot said:

Right at 75%, but this particular batch came in about 79%. Sloooow sparge. I did actually reduce the roasted barley by 4oz because my first small test batch seemed a bit bitter, but I think I'll go back to the original amount and try again.

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I think the British malts would be good in this beer. Just make sure you pay attention to the lovibond ratings. Some of the high kiln malts differ by manufacturer. I may have to try subbing marris otter in mine sometime since my LHBS carries it.

I still can't believe how well this recipe turned out, it is most definitely in my top five favorite beers.

atgilbertson said:

I still can't believe how well this recipe turned out, it is most definitely in my top five favorite beers.

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Agreed. This is an outstanding recipe. In fact it is too good. 5 gallons only lasts me a week.

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brewski09 said:

I think the British malts would be good in this beer. Just make sure you pay attention to the lovibond ratings. Some of the high kiln malts differ by manufacturer. I may have to try subbing marris otter in mine sometime since my LHBS carries it.

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I'm pretty sure I used British the first time I did it, but it was a small 1g test batch and I lost my notes. The British malts are definitely higher Lovibond, but given the style we're working with, it shouldn't matter much. I thought about Maris Otter too, but I think 2-Row's definitely the way to go. It would be an interesting experiment though.

What do you think about adding a pot DD coffee or some esspresso to the end of the boil or when kegging? I have never done such a thing but have wanted to.

mufflerbearing said:

What do you think about adding a pot DD coffee or some esspresso to the end of the boil or when kegging? I have never done such a thing but have wanted to.

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Look at the founders breakfast stout clone recipe for some direction/ thoughts on the coffee. Might be good in small amounts in this beer too.

mufflerbearing said:

What do you think about adding a pot DD coffee or some esspresso to the end of the boil or when kegging? I have never done such a thing but have wanted to.

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Cold filtered coffee in the secondary. For this brew I would just leave it as is.