So I have a batch of wine and beer fermenting along and am curious what type of results to expect. I think home brewed beer quality will be pretty good/decent while as with the wine I'm not so sure it would be as tasty as the brew. any thoughts/experience there? It seems like wine can be more complicated to get a good batch, it has a lot to do with terroir and the grape quality which could be hard to control when doing home wine kits. so, i have higher hopes for my beer as opposed to the wine.
brewers thoughts on home wine quality
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That was my assessment 20 years ago when I first started homebrewing. I REALLY like nice wines, but at that time, the wine kits were in cans and just did not produce a quality I cared for. Back then, all I was drinking (wine wise) was big reds. Now I recognize the many different times and places appropriate for a wide variety of wines... well, beverages of all kinds!
But times have changed, and I've had some very nice wines made from the bag in a box kits, especially the whites. The reds still lack in body and have a little bit of cooked fruit character. The end product is usually drinkable, but IMO not worth the money and effort.
If you're really looking for high quality, there are frozen musts that produce wonderful wines. If your LHBS doesn't carry them, check out Brehms grapes. These require a bit more equipment as you'll have to press the juice/wine from the grapes, but if you're looking for top quality, it's really the only way to go, for reds.
Another alternative, our LHBSs will have fresh local grapes available in the season (August-October), and they usually will have crush days.
Home brews, have long been able to match or exceed many commercial brews.
Interesting, thanks a lot for the feedback. I was going to spend $180 or so and buy an expensive red kit next, we'll see how this first batch turns out before I take that step. I saw some that come with grape skins, I imagine that will help some. The down side as we all know is you have to wait one year for those good kits, that can be tough to do.
I was going to do a white but after having a decent bottle of Benziger Reserve Chardonnay yesterday I realize I'm just not a big enough fan to have 30 bottles of it.
I was going to do a white but after having a decent bottle of Benziger Reserve Chardonnay yesterday I realize I'm just not a big enough fan to have 30 bottles of it.
summersolstice
Well-Known Member
The characteristics in red wines Vinic referred to is also sometimes known as "kit taste". Some people swear they can detect it while others swear it's a myth. Personally, I feel that lower end red kits will have a certain sweet or carmelized smell and taste that isn't there at all in a well aged higher end kit made with raisins or a grape pack, or in wines made from grapes. I feel the addition of these grape solids greatly improve the overall quality of a red kit and, when properly aged for a couple of years, the kit taste is completely, or virtually, undectable.
Ha yeah, I've been skeptical of the red kits; hesitantly optimistic that it will turn into something good. Of course everyones' taste's vary. On a wine forum, I presented a similar question and everyone swears they are just great. But when I see that that reviewer is making peach wine, mead and other things that I wouldn't drink I realize we likely have different tastes!
I've never been able to appreciate all the subtle differences in wines that others taste; I just find some that I like better than others. So I can't really speak to the differences in kits, although I would speculate that it seems logical that it would be harder to reproduce the subtleties of very fine wines at home. To me one of the great advantages of home winemaking is that you can make delicious specialty wines that aren't economically feasible for a commercial winery to make and market. I daresay that one would be hard-pressed to find a quality blueberry-vanilla melomel commercially available, even though there are numerous examples on this website.
Ha, true. I'm not looking to make a $100 retail equivalent bottle. Would be happy with $20 retail really. We'll see how this first batch turns out. It's a blend of three red grapes, mid tier quality I'd say at $80.
I've only made specialty wines. I haven't heard enough good things about grape wine kits to tempt me. To me the problem is lack of control over the grapes, which is 90% of the process. When I do a blackberry wine, I've picked each berry myself.
boo boo
Well-Known Member
I don't drink much wine, even the wine I make, but I agree with everyone here who said that IMO a red wine made from a kit just don't taste right.
To me it is a bit thin compared to commercial.White wine seems to be OK in my book.
I do make berry wines and like David_42, I pick the berries myself. My blueberry wine is much better than the commercial blueberry wine available locally, at least according to the comments I get from those who drink my own. I really don't taste much difference between mine and the store bought.
I guess it comes down to the ripeness of the berries I pick compared to that of the local winery who buy their berries and perhaps don't pick through them by hand like I do. I imagine both our processes are much alike.
I like the uniqueness of handmade wines. My blueberry and pear wines come from fruit that ripens outside my door and I have overseen every step of the process, made a wine that I have tasted and adjusted to my liking, racked into bottles and corked myself. There's not another wine like it on the planet, at any price. You can't buy wine like that, anywhere. That's the beauty of home winemaking, in my opinion. I'm sure there is a satisfaction for many in trying to replicate a fine wine they have enjoyed somewhere, but I get pleasure in creating wines that can't be duplicated by anyone.
same here. If I can "clone" the $10-$20 stuff at a lesser cost and have fun doing it, I'm good with that for now. It would be kind of cool to be able to grow your own fruit and do it all end-to-end like that, but unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to do that.
kaiser423
Well-Known Member
Yea, I've really been looking at getting into some wines. I've been hedging with the reds, but am pretty committed to the whites.
As long as a I can make a good everyday red house/table wine, I'll be happy.
But it's concerning me that kits don't seem to want to do the job at getting up to the ~$20 range equivalent. Lots of other boards seem confident that theirs are, but are they jsut biased, or do we have a bunch of wine snobs on here?
As long as a I can make a good everyday red house/table wine, I'll be happy.
But it's concerning me that kits don't seem to want to do the job at getting up to the ~$20 range equivalent. Lots of other boards seem confident that theirs are, but are they jsut biased, or do we have a bunch of wine snobs on here?
I've only made one wine kit, a relatively inexpensive cabernet sauvignon (can't remember the kit manufacturer). I thought it was a fantastic table wine. I'm not sure why, but some bottles were much better than others. Some had a very subtle off aroma/flavor that was a bit reminiscent of old fish (can you really taste chitosan?). None were obviously infected, and the off flavor seemed to be independent of age.
I was definitely encouraged to try another wine kit. Friends who drink far more wine than I seemed to think that it was fantastic and rivaled expensive bottles. I'm not certain a true wine expert would agree, but I definitely appreciated the positive feedback.
I was definitely encouraged to try another wine kit. Friends who drink far more wine than I seemed to think that it was fantastic and rivaled expensive bottles. I'm not certain a true wine expert would agree, but I definitely appreciated the positive feedback.
summersolstice
Well-Known Member
I agree with other posters who say the real advantage of home winemaking is producing a unique wine that is unavailable commercially. Mead is a perfect example of an amateur being able to produce a superior product due to the fact that the ingredients are expensive and may not be commercially viable. I've tasted far more excellent mead made by amateurs than I have commercial mead. Like a home grilled steak, you can make exactly what you like and tailor the recipe to please yourself.
Having said that, I still maintain that upper end red kits containing 16-18 litres of juice and concentrate in the $150-$200 range can produce a wine equal to what most casual wine drinkers will buy commercially, assuming the wine is aged under proper conditions for at least a couple of years. I feel these wines will easily rival a $15 wine. You just won't be able to make wine of this quality with a 10L-12L kit.
Having said that, I still maintain that upper end red kits containing 16-18 litres of juice and concentrate in the $150-$200 range can produce a wine equal to what most casual wine drinkers will buy commercially, assuming the wine is aged under proper conditions for at least a couple of years. I feel these wines will easily rival a $15 wine. You just won't be able to make wine of this quality with a 10L-12L kit.
I bought a couple of high end kits, and a few cheaper kits. All made drinkable wine.
The "cheaper" kits, about $50-$60 Vintner's Reserve kits were fine. The valpollicella was better than the shiraz. I would say they were like a $5-$7 bottle of red wine. Fine for everyday drinking, and a nice wine with dinner. Now, would I brag this up to a winesnob? Of course not, no more than I would serve "Concha de Toro" wine and claim it's Rothschild. But I would serve it as a table wine with pizza, and enjoy it very much.
The higher end kits, that were on sale for $150 were much better. I made a special release tannot/merlot blend and one was a malbec. These are still aging, but I've had several of them. The tannot is about 2 years old, and is wonderful. In 3-5 years, it should be fantastic. I would say these are comparable to $20 bottles.
I make "country" wines, too. My best wines are a crabapple (white) and oaked chokecherry. These don't taste like the actual fruit, any more than grape wines taste like grapes.
I have yet to buy a bucket of juice and try that- it's just not easy to get fresh juice here. But I will do that in retirement!
The "cheaper" kits, about $50-$60 Vintner's Reserve kits were fine. The valpollicella was better than the shiraz. I would say they were like a $5-$7 bottle of red wine. Fine for everyday drinking, and a nice wine with dinner. Now, would I brag this up to a winesnob? Of course not, no more than I would serve "Concha de Toro" wine and claim it's Rothschild. But I would serve it as a table wine with pizza, and enjoy it very much.
The higher end kits, that were on sale for $150 were much better. I made a special release tannot/merlot blend and one was a malbec. These are still aging, but I've had several of them. The tannot is about 2 years old, and is wonderful. In 3-5 years, it should be fantastic. I would say these are comparable to $20 bottles.
I make "country" wines, too. My best wines are a crabapple (white) and oaked chokecherry. These don't taste like the actual fruit, any more than grape wines taste like grapes.
I have yet to buy a bucket of juice and try that- it's just not easy to get fresh juice here. But I will do that in retirement!
Texron
Well-Known Member
I'm sure I don't have an "educated" pallet, but the wines I have made so far taste good to me. My friends that I have shared them with for the most part have really enjoyed them as well-but of course a lot of that could be because they didn't have to pay for them.
My line of thinking is not many of us would drink a $20.00 bottle a wine on a regular basis and with these kits we can affordably drink "nice" wines whenever we want to. Plus, with the limited release kits I can get 30 bottles of quality wine from a region that I'm not likely to have even heard of other wise.
My line of thinking is not many of us would drink a $20.00 bottle a wine on a regular basis and with these kits we can affordably drink "nice" wines whenever we want to. Plus, with the limited release kits I can get 30 bottles of quality wine from a region that I'm not likely to have even heard of other wise.
kaiser423
Well-Known Member
That's my line also. I like a bottle with dinner, but lots of the cheaper wines out there just suck. You can find some good ones, but not great ones for $5.
If I could make a nice reliable red table wine, I'd be happy.
I love Basque food, and a lot of good places serve a burgundy or something that is just a nice simple table wine with dinner which is obviously home-produced, and that's what I'm aiming for.
I think that I'll be just fine
Texron
Well-Known Member
If you pick a quality kit and clsoely follow the instructions you should end up happy. The best part is the "cool factor" that comes with knowing you made it yourself. Enjoy!
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