Induction Plate not Boiling quite right

So, I've been wanting to go electric and move my brewing in to the basement. I came a cross a good deal (or what I thought was a good deal) on an 1800w "commercial" induction plate. And bought an 8 gal kettle that the seller confirmed was "induction compatible". When I got the kettle, it does hold a magnet although a little weakly.

I tested the set up with water ahead of time and it seemed to get it up to boiling ok.

But when I brewed and tried to boil with it, the boil was pretty weak. The thermometer on the kettle was reading like 218, but it wasn't a strong rolling boil like I'm used to getting. I just carried on with the brew as best I could, have yet to see how this beer will turn out. I suspect the hop profile will be off, but c'est la vi. If it's bad, I'll just chalk it up to experiment.

I thought I'd jump in here and see if anyone has any advice. Has anyone actually used a specific line of kettles that might work better with induction? Or should I be looking at an induction plate with more juice? I'm kind of hoping someone here might be brewing with induction and be able to give me specifics on equipment that has worked well for them.

Thanks

I think 1800W is a bit low. I have a 240V 3500W induction burner and get a good rolling boil at about 2900W with about 6.5 gallons of wort. Less than that it's more of a strong simmer. I have a bayou classic 9 gallon kettle. They are very magnetic. It's best to have a narrow / tall kettle vs a wide kettle. My 15 gallon megapot, which is also very magnetic, doesn't get to a full rolling boil even at 3500W with 6.5 gallons.

FisherBrewer - Thanks very much for the info. That is very helpful to me. Yeah, a "strong simmer" is a great way to describe what I had with this batch.

Yes 1800 watts is probably just not quite enough juice to bring that much water to a rolling boil. You could add a bucket heater or heat stick on a separate circuit inserted into the kettle, that would likely do the trick.

Can either of you tell me what model induction cookers you are using? Or are there any other specific models you'd recommend?

Mine is the Avantco IC3500. I did a lot of research and this one was the biggest bang for the buck. I'm quite happy with it. One note however: the burner size is 8 1/2". So the larger diameter kettles won't necessarily work that great on it as I mentioned in my previous post.

Thanks again FisherBrewer. The information is much appreciated.

I've been looking at induction for a while now, decided to scrap my "element system" and just go with the 240v 3500w induction cooker for now. I've also got the Bayou Classic 9 gallon pot. I only do 5 gallon batches and from what I've read getting 7 gallons of wort up to boil is not an issue at all.

FisherBrewer - don't those Megapots have the tri-clad bottoms with aluminum sandwiched between stainless steel layers? Maybe that is also hurting the heating capacity since aluminum won't work with induction.

DustBow - What model induction cooker do you have? I'm thinking I might go for a bigger one than the one I have and I'm trying to get a feel for what others are using.

I have not bought it yet, but I'm getting the 240v 3500w model at the Webstaurant store

The problem that I see with the mega pot is the dimensions. It's on the order of 18" wide whereas the induction burner's actual heating area is 8.5". I get a good boil in the center at the bottom of the kettle but it dissipates as it rises through the volume of liquid. I'm quite certain that you want to keep the diameter of the kettle as small as reasonably possible and optimally matched to the size of the burner. Now, if anyone is aware of a stainless steel 15 gallon magnetic kettle that is 12-13" in diameter ........

Hm ... question ... has anyone considered or tried running two induction cookers underneath their pots? I know Amazon has a popular 1800 Watt model, and two of those would be 3600 Watts, just run them on two separate 120V circuits. Maybe then you could get away with a larger diameter pot? I wonder if that would mess up the induction cookers having two of them going like that under the same pot?

If anyone is interested, I collected data on the temp rise vs time with both the 15 gal mega pot and the 9 gal bayou classic. I can post it. The temperature rise is very impressive. Now, if anyone is thinking of BIAB with this setup, I can tell you that if you want to do a no sparge process, the 9 gal bayou classic kettle is undersized. It's just not possible if you want a reasonable gravity (e.g., 1.050+) without suffering low efficiencies and having to top up prior to boil. You will want to consider a 60 qt although now the diameter is growing. Bottom line: this Avantco 3500w induction burner is great for batch sparging but probably not optimum for BIAB no sparging. FWIW.

Bayou Classic has a 15.5gall/62qt pot that has been used for induction. It's a little bit wider than the 9 & 11 gallon pots but the user reports getting 11 gallons up to a strong boil (insulated kettle)

link

EDIT: I'd love to see the times you charted since I will be using that exact setup - 3500w induction along w/ 9 gallon Bayou Classic. Thanks

FisherBrewer said:

The problem that I see with the mega pot is the dimensions. It's on the order of 18" wide whereas the induction burner's actual heating area is 8.5". I get a good boil in the center at the bottom of the kettle but it dissipates as it rises through the volume of liquid. I'm quite certain that you want to keep the diameter of the kettle as small as reasonably possible and optimally matched to the size of the burner. Now, if anyone is aware of a stainless steel 15 gallon magnetic kettle that is 12-13" in diameter ........

Click to expand...

Here's the data

BtW, the cover was on the kettle when these temps were measured.

porcupine73 said:

Yes 1800 watts is probably just not quite enough juice to bring that much water to a rolling boil. You could add a bucket heater or heat stick on a separate circuit inserted into the kettle, that would likely do the trick.

Click to expand...

Bingo. I use a 1800 watt Induction surface with a bucket warmer for full boils. I am usually starting with 8 gallons and ending with 6.75-7. It takes a while to get going but once it is boiling I turn down the Induction surface to 4 ( it maxes at 10) and keep the bucket warmer in it till the end of the boil. I end up with 6 gallons in the fermenter which gives me 5-5.5 at the end usually after 2-4 oz of dry hopping.

Steve da sleeve

Hm interesting chart data. I wouldn't have expected the temperature to rise so linearly. I'd of thought the rate of rise would have tapered off as the temp increased due to radiant losses out the pot. (Not questioning your data; it's just an interesting result, thanks for posting it!).

The burner was set at 3500W for the test whereas subsequently I found that I can bring 6.5 gal to a rolling boil with this kettle at 2900W. So it was overpowered a bit and that's why the temperature rise was linear. The cover was on as well, which has a big impact on retaining the heat.

Think it would be even faster with stirring or agitating the water? Does the induction plate create much heat stratification from top to bottom?

I forgot to mention that I did stir before every temp reading. Yes, there is a lot of temperature stratification. About 10-15 deg differential throughout the kettle. I usually use a pump to recirculate during a brew session for keeping mash temps constant. I didn't in this experiment as I didn't want to lose heat through the pump and just characterize the kettle itself.

I just did my second brew with an 1800W Burton (cost around $70). This was a full 5-gallon boil in my 8-gallon brewpot. It went pretty well as long as I kept the lid on the kettle. My previous batch was a 2.5-gallon partial boil in a 5-gallon Bayou Classic. That one reached a boil fairly quickly and held a decent rolling boil without the lid.

I'd looked at the 3500W unit, but couldn't find the funds for a 208V circuit, since my current panel is full.

porcupine73 said:

Hm ... question ... has anyone considered or tried running two induction cookers underneath their pots? I know Amazon has a popular 1800 Watt model, and two of those would be 3600 Watts, just run them on two separate 120V circuits. Maybe then you could get away with a larger diameter pot? I wonder if that would mess up the induction cookers having two of them going like that under the same pot?

Click to expand...

This is relevant to my interests.

porcupine73 said:

Hm ... question ... has anyone considered or tried running two induction cookers underneath their pots? I know Amazon has a popular 1800 Watt model, and two of those would be 3600 Watts, just run them on two separate 120V circuits. Maybe then you could get away with a larger diameter pot? I wonder if that would mess up the induction cookers having two of them going like that under the same pot?

Click to expand...

I watched a youtube video where a guy was using two inductuion burners on one pot.

Here, I found it:

Hm that's interesting, it doesn't even look like pot completely covers both induction cookers. Maybe they don't need 100% overlap of the metal to induce the full current in the pot.

I would think if it were two of the same model induction cooker on the same leg of the 240/120v they would be fine. Wondering though if one were on one leg and the second on the second leg if they would be 180 deg out of phase and somehow maybe cancel each other out or waste their power.

Hm how about double stacking the units? Sit one 1800w on top another 1800w bingo 3600 watts in a single height unit. Just kidding ... but it would be fun to try maybe outside.

Question about the 240v induction cookers:

I'm guessing they're wired for 3-wire international... hot, neutral, ground? Are you modifying the plug to insert in a North American receptical? I have a 4-wire dryer plug I could use and I'm comfortable installing a new plug but I don't know if it's possible to convert this unit to a 4-wire plug.

And if I buy one that's wire for NA, (hot-hot-ground), any reason I couldn't make an adapter chord to plug in to my 4-wire dryer plug, and only connect the 3 wires I need to convert to 3-wire 240?

This thread was very timely. I'd like to move the starter prep to the basement brewery.

Would you know a source for a 10-16 quart, induction friendly, pot?

Thanks

nealperkins said:

This thread was very timely. I'd like to move the starter prep to the basement brewery.

Would you know a source for a 10-16 quart, induction friendly, pot?

Thanks

Click to expand...

Take a fridge magnet to walmart/target/big-lots and find a pot that size that you can stick the magnet to. That's what I did. I ultimately found mine at big lots. And the induction plate does work very well for that. Hopefully this info is helpful for you.

cupido76 said:

And if I buy one that's wire for NA, (hot-hot-ground), any reason I couldn't make an adapter chord to plug in to my 4-wire dryer plug, and only connect the 3 wires I need to convert to 3-wire 240?

Click to expand...

That's what I did. Wired up a 3 wire cable to a 4 prong plug and just left the neutral blade unconnected

DustBow said:

That's what I did. Wired up a 3 wire cable to a 4 prong cord and just left the neutral unconnected

Click to expand...

Great... Thanks!

I wired it Hot-Hot-Ground. My receptacle is wired into a sub-panel I put in myself, so I could get the right configuration to the receptacle.

nealperkins -

I got a ss 22 qt from walmart thats magnetic.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Tramontina-Style-22-Quart-Covered-Stockpot/19581118

Would be good for extract / partial grain or small batches.

Thanks for that. My trusty magnet and I are off to Walmart & Big Lots.

Is anyone who is using induction plates controlling them with a PID?

My gut suggests to me that this shouldn't work since I don't know how the induction plate is going to respond to the pulsed input power of the PID.

My induction burner (Avantco IC3500) would not work with an external controller without modification. The unit needs to be powered up (i.e., you have to push the on/off button) if the power is disconnect from the unit. But an external controller wouldn't be necessary anyway as the unit has the ability to control temperature or power level itself. The temperature settings are course, however, but I find it adequate for mashing with an uninsulated kettle.

Planning to buy the Avantco IC3500. How did you guys adapt your dryer outlet to the 6-20P plug on the device? My dryer outlet is 14-30 (4 prong). I need both hot prongs to get 240V right? If I did hot-neutral-ground I would get 120V, if I did hot-hot-ground I will get 240V.

Is that right?

I bought some 3 wire SJOW cable at Home Depot and then connected the 3 wires to the hot-hot-ground blades of a 4 prong dryer plug. Left the neutral blade in the plug unconnected (with the plug I have you could even remove that blade). Then used the standard 240v/20 amp outlet on the other end.

Hey everyone, just wanted to add something I just did...

So I am one of "those guys" who is looking at posts trying to figure out what works for home brewing and what doesn't based on others' feedback. So, I finally wanted to contribute... And in case you were wondering, I wanted to step up (and am in the process of stepping up) my batches from 10 gallon to 20 - 1BBL.

And more than that, if you're like me, I wanted an alternative to propane and induction seemed like the way to go...here's my experiment...

I finally went for it and bought a couple 25 gallon Northern Brewer kettles and a 15 gallon one, too (that one is mainly for a rigged HERMS system I am going to set up).

Also, I bought two Duxtop 1800 watt induction cookers (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0045QEPYM/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20) from amazon.

I wanted to put it to the test so here is what I had:

*For this TEST, my 25 gallon kettle is on a rigged rail system (if I can upload a photo I will, otherwise I'll attach a link) whereby I put the edges of the kettle on two 2x4's and used cardboard as wedges to fit everything to height and induction plates right underneath the kettle...here's what I got:

**My actual system will not be using 2x4's!!! I only did this as a test to see how fast and and what temperatures I can get my 25 gallon kettle of WATER to certain temperatures**

ADDITIONAL INFO: Water was about 65 degrees fahrenheit , outside temperature roughly 70 degrees fahrenheit, in an open garage, little wind. During the course of the experiment, outside temp decreased to 67. Also, the induction plate on the backside of the garage didn't have the best fan/air circulation so I kept it at a heating # of 8/10 (the max) while the other was at 9/10 (max). I did end up increasing the back induction plate to 9/10 roughly halfway through.

65 degrees: 3:55 PM
78 degrees: 4:05
88 degrees: 4:15
95 degrees: 4:25
104 degrees: 4:35
114 degrees: 4:45
paused and checked 20 minutes later
135 degrees: 5:05
145 degrees: 5:15

and so on...

Essentially, I was getting about 1-1.2 degrees a minute increase with my setup.

But there was a few things to keep in mind. I have the sides of my kettle wrapped in Reflectix (double) but the top was only covered by kettle top not reflectix, which to me meant some heat loss as opposed to being covered by insulation (since we know heat rises). Additionally, and possibly more important, I don't have my kettles drilled for ball valve drains, glass sights, or temp probes, so I had to manually open the top (heat loss) and measure for 45+ seconds the temperature. Last, with ideal conditions, the induction plates would be at 10/10 the entire time.

Keeping that in mind, like I wrote, I was getting about 1-1.2 degree increase per minute. When I get probes inserted/cover the top in insulation/etc. I hope to have a steady/increase that rate (although increasing won't be dramatic/too much).

So that's it. Just my own home experiment.

If anyone wants to know, I am planning on upgrading to 3500 W induction plates in the next 8-10 months. I just don't have the ability to run $$$ 220V extension cords to my appliance outlet. Later I will, but not now. Also, I will be using my 15 gallon kettle (on induction plates) with an added copper coil to act as a HERMS system to recirculate wort to my mash. After I sparge, I plan on using induction to heat to boil.

That's my experiment.