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kal
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Wow. This one looks like an *exact* replica. Cool! Nice work!
Kal
Kal
How to build a control panel (part 1)
- Thread starter kal
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Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
Kal...quick question for you.
I've modeled my CP after yours, minus the amp and volt meter. I've also left out the 50 amp shunt. Here is a schematic from your website:
You've got 10 AWG wire going from the relay to the shunt, then 14 AWG wire from the shunt to the terminal strip. Since I don't have a shunt, can I just use 14 AWG from the relay to the strip or do I need to use 10 AWG?
I've modeled my CP after yours, minus the amp and volt meter. I've also left out the 50 amp shunt. Here is a schematic from your website:
You've got 10 AWG wire going from the relay to the shunt, then 14 AWG wire from the shunt to the terminal strip. Since I don't have a shunt, can I just use 14 AWG from the relay to the strip or do I need to use 10 AWG?
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kal
Well-Known Member
Hi!
You can use 14 AWG from the relay to the Neutral bus. No issues.
Just make sure to use 10 AWG from the relay (not shunt) to the SSRs in the later diagram:
Kal
You can use 14 AWG from the relay to the Neutral bus. No issues.
Just make sure to use 10 AWG from the relay (not shunt) to the SSRs in the later diagram:
Kal
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kal
Well-Known Member
Sorry, yes, 14 AWG fromr the power in relay to the HOT bus. (That's what I meant to say).
Kal
Kal
Scut_Monkey
Well-Known Member
That stinks. I will be building an almost exact replica so count me in. I have wanted an electric system but didn't have the knowledge to design one myself. However, I most definitely can build one especially with such great directions. The nice thing is I wanted a single tier HERMS system which is exactly what this control panel and system is designed for. I was psyched to find Kals website. Perfect timing for me.
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kal
Well-Known Member
Give it a day or two. They'll be back in stock. Happens all the time.
Kal
Kal
NattyBrew
Well-Known Member
It seems like Amazons only source for the Camco 5500W elements is Rons Hardware and it appears that the popularity of the element for Kals build and other electric brewing rigs seems to be killing their supply pretty quickly. They show up in stock every once in a while via Amazon so you just have to hope that you time it right.
If anyone is getting frustrated trying to find them I found a site which operates a local True Value outlet and they had about 20 elements in stock. Clearly the operation is for a hometown hardware store but don't be too scared away by the 1995 look of their webpage. I was able to order online and pay via Paypal and had the elements shipped perfectly fine to me in about a week. Just follow the link below to go directly to the Camco listing at (and you'll love the name) "Honey Do Hardware". Classic.
https://www.honeydohardware.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=44144
hatfieldenator
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The 5500 watt elements that home depot sells work just as well IMO as the camco. If you're doing 5 or 10 gallon batches I doubt you'll notice a difference between the two.
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kal
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Is it ULWD? The main benefit of ULWD (ultra-low-watt-density) is not to prevent wort scorching (which IMHO is internet folklore) but as a safety feature to avoid blowing the element if ever by accident you fire it dry.
Kal
hatfieldenator
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Not sure if it is or not. I'll have to check that out and get back to you. I agree though that the protection from a dry run is probably a good idea.
http://morebeer.com/view_product/8767/beerwinecoffee/MPT_Stainless_Steel_Male_Quick_Disconnect
Another problem, MoreBeer a/k/a B3 is out of stainless male QD's and won't have any until Mid March. Are these identical to any sold at McMaster Carr. McMaster Carr has some high flow liquid ones that look similar, but for 1/2 inch NPT size, they are $18 vs. $12.
Another problem, MoreBeer a/k/a B3 is out of stainless male QD's and won't have any until Mid March. Are these identical to any sold at McMaster Carr. McMaster Carr has some high flow liquid ones that look similar, but for 1/2 inch NPT size, they are $18 vs. $12.
coffeediver
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Kal is single handedly responsible for several suppliers going out of stock.
Yes, hopefully everyone is logging onto those sites through Kal's so he gets credit.
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kal
Well-Known Member
For what it's worth, MoreBeer often has things out of stock. I ended up buying the male & female disconnects separately, many weeks apart. You just have to be patient. March isn't that far away!
Kal
Kal
I can also go Tri-Clamp instead. For four hoses, two pumps, one chiller, HLT, Mash Tun, BK and RIMS Tube, I am looking at $871.00 from Sabco.
Please, please talk to Swagman on HBT before you go to Sabco. Not only are you supporting a HBTer, but he will almost always get you a better deal...not to mention a high quality product.
Another option is KLG Stainless on ebay.
I am still searching and saw Swagman and the mention of KLG. Brewer's Hardware who I've seen advertise on here has a great selection as well. Don't worry, Sabco is out of the picture.
hatfieldenator
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I was at Home Depot today and checked on these. They are Camco brand and they are definitely ULWD. The only difference is the shape. They are the straight kind with only one bend.
Here's a link: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
Even though the description above says "Low Watt Density" The package actually says "Ultra Low Watt Density"
I'm 95% complete with my own Kal Clone, but I need just ONE dimension that I can't seem to find anywhere. The 22mm selectors appear to require a 22mm hole to be drilled, but I can't find the diameter of the plastic selector anywhere. Surely it's not the same diameter as the hole itself, is it?
I'm building a 24" x 16" control box with - and yeah, I may be over compensating for deficiencies elsewhere - 9 temp PIDs (only 3 of them actually control the GAS burners, the rest are just monitoring temps), a pH controller, and a timer. With all this equipment crowded into the box, I want to make sure that there's still room for my FAT AND DRUNKEN fingers to turn the damned knobs!
If someone could enlighten me, I can finish the design and start drilling!!
BTW, I gotta give a shout-out to Kal's recommendation of electrical_parts on eBay - that guy truly ROCKS!!!
I'm building a 24" x 16" control box with - and yeah, I may be over compensating for deficiencies elsewhere - 9 temp PIDs (only 3 of them actually control the GAS burners, the rest are just monitoring temps), a pH controller, and a timer. With all this equipment crowded into the box, I want to make sure that there's still room for my FAT AND DRUNKEN fingers to turn the damned knobs!
If someone could enlighten me, I can finish the design and start drilling!!
BTW, I gotta give a shout-out to Kal's recommendation of electrical_parts on eBay - that guy truly ROCKS!!!
Why use 9 PIDs?? Well, if one would be good, and 2 would be better, then 9 must be....
Actually, I have a couple of excuses... 1) I'm a scientist by profession (almost 30 years), and I firmly believe that you can NEVER have too much data upon which to make important decisions, 2) the bling factor, and 3) I got a GREAT deal on eBay for a lot of 8 Omega CN9000As a couple of years back, and figured that I can either use 'em or sell 'em - based on my previous excuses, I decided to use 'em.
Simply stated, I have three PIDs on each kettle; one monitoring the inflow after exiting the heat exchanger, one monitoring the outflow prior to entering the heat exchanger, and one monitoring the kettle itself. It's a little more complicated than that... for instance, I wanted to be able to monitor the temp of my tap water prior to entering and again upon exiting the immersion chiller, giving me an idea of when to optimally drop the pre-chiller into the ice bath (HLT), and when to start pumping the ice bath water itself through the immersion chiller to get the wort down to lager pitching temps.
Did I mention the "bling factor?"...
Namako, if you are concerned about fitting them in the box, the backside of them is much larger than the front. Which switches did you buy? The front of the selector is not much bigger than the hole.
Yeah, I found the dimensions of the backside... I just can't find the diameter of the selector knob.
I bought them through Kal's recommended eBay seller - electrical_parts, aka Pioneer Breaker. Part numbers PBC-SS22XTMA2-2 and PBC-SS22XTMA2-3.
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kal
Well-Known Member
Make sure it's going to fit. The only way to get to ULWD (50W per square inch) is to make the total element length longer. The ones I use keep the overall length shorter by (a) folding the element over on itself, and (b) using a zigzag pattern.
The ones you listed don't have a zig-zag pattern so the installed length must be longer (?).
Kal
NattyBrew
Well-Known Member
I'm 95% complete with my own Kal Clone, but I need just ONE dimension that I can't seem to find anywhere. The 22mm selectors appear to require a 22mm hole to be drilled, but I can't find the diameter of the plastic selector anywhere. Surely it's not the same diameter as the hole itself, is it?
I'm building a 24" x 16" control box with - and yeah, I may be over compensating for deficiencies elsewhere - 9 temp PIDs (only 3 of them actually control the GAS burners, the rest are just monitoring temps), a pH controller, and a timer. With all this equipment crowded into the box, I want to make sure that there's still room for my FAT AND DRUNKEN fingers to turn the damned knobs!
If someone could enlighten me, I can finish the design and start drilling!!
BTW, I gotta give a shout-out to Kal's recommendation of electrical_parts on eBay - that guy truly ROCKS!!!
From some of the clones floating around the site here it looks like we all kind of ended up using slightly different plastic selector switches that Pioneer Breaker (the eBay store linked on Kal's site) offers. My selector switches are the ones seen below in this picture and a quick measure puts them right at 1-1/8" in diameter. Some guys on here have switches with larger plastic tails on them so obviously you would need more room but if your switches look like mine below that measurement should be right on the money.
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kal
Well-Known Member
Control panel switches require either 22 or 30mm holes. That's really all you need to know. The selectors go with the switch base.
Can you post pictures?
EDIT: Wait - did you want to know the selector sizing because your panel is going to be very cramped and you want to make sure you have enough space between them?
To quote on 22mm switch manufacturer:
"These Ø 22.5 control devices can be mounted in any position in panels of 1 to 6 mm (.039 - .236 in.) thickness.We recommend minimum fixing centers of 30 x 40mm (1.2 x 1.57 inches). However, the dimensions and configuration should be decided on the basis of the application"
So the centers should be 30mm apart horiz, 40mm vertically (usually to leave space for a label).
Another manufacturer recommends 30mm spacing for 230V or less applications and 40mm for 400V or less.
Mine are actually 2.5" apart horizontally which is 63.5mm. This is mostly to keep them ligned up with the larger items (PIDs/timer):
Kal
Here's a graphic of my layout so far... I'm worried that I have the selectors too close together in the pump control area. They'll fit behind the panel, no problem, but if the dials are bigger than the contact portion, I may have them too close...
Not sure why it doesn't load. The link is: http://s366.photobucket.com/albums/oo109/NamakoH3/?action=view¤t=VisioPanelLayout-Selector-StyleDRAFT3.jpg
There are a couple more pics in my Gallery...
Kal, you count me among those that hate you!
Maybe it's because I can't upload a picture when replying? Forgive me as I stumble along... my cornie keg is missing about 4 liters from what it started with earlier this evening...
Ok, I looked at my switches and the knob is about the same diameter as the width of the box behind it.
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kal
Well-Known Member
Jan 16, 2011 update:
We're offering an alternate method for cutting the 22mm holes in the control panel which results in cleaner, perfectly centered holes with the least amount of work. It involves using a GreenLee 1/2" conduit punch to make the 7/8" (22mm) holes instead of exclusively using a GreenLee 36414 1-3/8" step drill bit. This is now our recommended method for creating the control panel 22mm holes, especially if you do not own a drill press. See here for complete details.
Kal
We're offering an alternate method for cutting the 22mm holes in the control panel which results in cleaner, perfectly centered holes with the least amount of work. It involves using a GreenLee 1/2" conduit punch to make the 7/8" (22mm) holes instead of exclusively using a GreenLee 36414 1-3/8" step drill bit. This is now our recommended method for creating the control panel 22mm holes, especially if you do not own a drill press. See here for complete details.
Kal
Kal:
Why are you referring to yourself in the plural?
Why are you referring to yourself in the plural?
His daughter helps assemble the panels.
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kal
Well-Known Member
Exactly right. It was her idea (she's 4) to go with the new GreenLee punch. One smart cookie.
(Actually, it's simply because the entire site is written that way. It's common to write technical documentation this way and use "we" instead of "I").
Kal
(Actually, it's simply because the entire site is written that way. It's common to write technical documentation this way and use "we" instead of "I").
Kal
hatfieldenator
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Thanks, Joety, I'll plan to use enough space to allow for knobs that are the same diameter as the switches themselves are wide. That looks to be 30mm, and that's pretty consistent with the diameter of the buzzer (29mm) from the same manufacturer.
I'm brewing a Koelsh on this MLK holiday... manually.
MarkInOhio
Member
coffeediver
Well-Known Member
I did step bit for my 22mm holes, wish I had known about the 1/2" conduit. Oh well. All is good.
Barry
Barry
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