Brilliant clarity without cold crashing

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gelatin

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I'm 14 batches in and I have yet to be able to produce a beer with perfect clarity. I use whirlfloc and primary for 3-4 weeks. I've tried adding gelatin and waiting a week with only minor effect. I'm not dry hopping. I've both filtered wort and dumped everything.

I've thought about longer primaries, but if that was going to clear things up shouldn't they have cleared up in the bottles after several months?

The only thing I haven't done is cold crash because I don't have the facilities to do this. I'm a little confused though because after refrigerating for several days, shouldn't that have the same effect in bottles?

I'm starting to think there's some sort of process error I'm making. What could cause a lack of clarity? I've done extract batches and all-grain BIAB without noticeable difference.
 
What kind of water are you brewing with? Are you treating said water at all? High levels of bicarbonate can cause haze in your beer despite filtering/finings/etc.
 
I'm brewing with Chicago city water. I'll add some CaCl usually, gypsum occasionally, and lactic acid if the water calc says I need it. I only have PH test strips but things seem to be in the right range there.

HCO3- is at 129ppm by the water report. A little highish but nothing crazy at all. Should I look at diluting with distilled?
 
I've never had a batch that didn't clear with a few weeks in the fridge. I've never had an immediately clear batch either. I think whirlfloc helps it clear faster, but time in the bottle in the fridge will clear. Even my wheats went clear and I had to stir them up.
 
I'm brewing with Chicago city water. I'll add some CaCl usually, gypsum occasionally, and lactic acid if the water calc says I need it. I only have PH test strips but things seem to be in the right range there.

HCO3- is at 129ppm by the water report. A little highish but nothing crazy at all. Should I look at diluting with distilled?

You could try diluting. Not sure if gypsum could be responsible for clouding your beer or not. I'd let someone else weigh in on the conversation that has more experience with water chemistry than I.
 
I have trouble keeping bottles in the fridge for more than a few days. For some unknown reason they disappear after that, so I'll try longer fridge times on some of my current batches and also look into the distilled dilution. Thanks guys.
 
U need to determine if the lack of clarity is yeast vs protein-phenol. An excellent product for polyphenols BrewBrite. Fot yeast, pitch rate is very important I'm working on these same issues.

Cheers!
 
Yeast wise, I'm solely a dry yeast user so far. I use one pack on 2.5 gallon and 5 gallon batches and don't notice a difference there so I doubt it's under-pitching as a primary issue. My most used yeast is nottingham, so it shouldn't be a flocculation issue.

With the BrewBrite, that can't go bad can it? I've got some from the early 90's that I can get for free.
 
Just my two cents, but how does it taste? Clarity might be important for competitions, but doesn't matter much for anything else. If your beer tastes great, don't sweat the clarity.
 
The only thing I haven't done is cold crash because I don't have the facilities to do this. I'm a little confused though because after refrigerating for several days, shouldn't that have the same effect in bottles?

i too lack a fridge for cold crashing, so i do "cool crashing": place some water and ice/ice packs/bottles of frozen water in a tub, then drop your fermenter in there. replace the ice two or three times a day. i don't get down to 34*F like i might in a fridge, but i get to the mid-40's which is plenty to get the yeast to flocc out.
 
i too lack a fridge for cold crashing, so i do "cool crashing": place some water and ice/ice packs/bottles of frozen water in a tub, then drop your fermenter in there. replace the ice two or three times a day. i don't get down to 34*F like i might in a fridge, but i get to the mid-40's which is plenty to get the yeast to flocc out.

If you don't want to do a tub too, what I do is get a cheap 30 gallon trashcan and put your fermenter into it with about 40lbs of ice and then wrap some sort of insulation around the trashcan if you can. This will chill your fermenter down to cold crash temps for long enough to clarify.
 
Not being able to produce a clear beer means to me that there's something attainable and desirable but not understood. I don't mind an unintentionally cloudy beer that tastes great, but I would have a great sense of accomplishment if I can figure out the missing piece. I love giving out my wheat beers and dark beers, but I feel like I've failed when I have a cloudy cream ale. There's something beautiful and proud about a clear and tasty beer.

I'll pick up a can for a graff I have in the fermenter now and try cold crashing with ice. I'm going to have to be careful with all these great tips so I don't apply more than one to a batch and not know what it was that did the trick!
 
BrewBrite is a polyclar product, synthetic. Not sure of the shelf life. Rep recommended to me it be kept sealed in the freezer.

Yeast flocculation is time and sugar (actually lack of) dependent, plus strain character.

Cheers!
 
I should have added temp to that list. Cold crashing is very helpful.
 
I also find that enough cold time will clear anything. I learned this from kegging. After a couple months, all my kegged beers are clear, even wheats. The same effect should occur in bottles, but I can empathize with the disappearing bottle syndrome. It can be pretty hard to keep bottles in the fridge for months.

How long have you kept your bottles? I have found that my bottled beers continue to clarify as the months go by, even at room temperature. I don't think I've kept anything 6mo or more that has not cleared in that amount of time.

Gelatin is magic if you want clear beer fast.

I don't pursue
 
Craigslist a used fridge.. we got them all over arou.d here from 50-200$ .. trash can cost $30-40.. apply a few bucks and pick used fridge.. what i did (if you have room for it) good luck either way cold crashin is the easiest way in my experience
 
I'm 14 batches in and I have yet to be able to produce a beer with perfect clarity. I use whirlfloc and primary for 3-4 weeks. I've tried adding gelatin and waiting a week with only minor effect. I'm not dry hopping. I've both filtered wort and dumped everything.

I've thought about longer primaries, but if that was going to clear things up shouldn't they have cleared up in the bottles after several months?

The only thing I haven't done is cold crash because I don't have the facilities to do this. I'm a little confused though because after refrigerating for several days, shouldn't that have the same effect in bottles?

I'm starting to think there's some sort of process error I'm making. What could cause a lack of clarity? I've done extract batches and all-grain BIAB without noticeable difference.


As I can't really comment on the factor of your water my money is on the highlighted sentences. Go longer in primary with a cold crash before bottling. The clearer the beer is going into the bottles, the more chance for a clear beer after a few weeks chilling in the fridge.

The only other thing that springs to mind for me is, how quickly do you cool down your wort after brewing and before pitching?? I think I've read something about longer post-boil cooling times equating to cloudy beers.
 
I had hoped that getting a wort chiller would help, I picked one up after my first three batches and now cool the wort from boiling within 15 minutes very reliably (sometimes in 5 minutes with the 2.5 gal batches).

Why does bulk conditioning clear beer better than it would in bottles over the same amount of time?
 
1) Make sure you have a good rolling boil for at least 45 minutes during your boil phase. This will help precipitate out a lot of proteins.

2) Definitely use whirlfloc or 1 teaspoon of irish moss at 15 left in the boil.

3) Give your yeast at least 3 weeks in the primary whether you think it's finished fermenting or not. For higher gravity beers, four or even five weeks in the primary is best.

4) Allow your bottles/kegs to condition for 3 weeks in a room temperature spot, in the dark.

5) Chill your bottles a full 48 hours prior to serving.

6) Use proven, highly flocculant strains of yeast. I recommend: WLP001, WLP007, Super San Diego, Safale S04 & 05.

7) Cold crash if your beer looks hazy prior to bottling. 72 hours at 40 degrees is usually sufficient to force yeasts to floc out.

8) Try the gelatin trick if cold crashing doesn't clear the beer. Add 1 packet of knox gelatin to a cup of very warm (but not boiling) sterile (usually distilled) water. Stir until dissolved. Slowly and carefully pour the gelatin into your cold beer and let sit another three to five days.
 
Chilling the hot wort down to pitch temp in 20 minutes or less greatly reduces or elliminates chill haze at fridge time. Use a medium to high flocculation yeast to get it to settle out quicker. Give the beer time to hit FG in primary. Then 3-7 days to clean up & settle out clear or slightly misty. Then bottle carb & condition 3-4 weeks at 70F or more.
My beers usually clear up the first few days in the bottles. My PM biab beers still have a very slight haze to them from the fine crush of the grains needed for biab. But a week in the fridge cold crashes them in the bottles & gets nice carbonation & head. They pour crystal clear. See my gallery for cascade pale ale. That was my 1st PM ale.
 
My fermentation chamber is a cooler in my basement right now...a perfect 60 degrees. I used to add water but started getting some mold on a batch. Now I just add about ten ice packs to the cooler around the carboy 2 days prior to my secondary, then two more prior to bottling. My beer is crystal clear in the bottles to begin with, even with dry hopping. I use whirlfloc but have had crystal clear without it.
 
i too lack a fridge for cold crashing, so i do "cool crashing": place some water and ice/ice packs/bottles of frozen water in a tub, then drop your fermenter in there. replace the ice two or three times a day. i don't get down to 34*F like i might in a fridge, but i get to the mid-40's which is plenty to get the yeast to flocc out.

If he is using Lake Michigan water he is from the midwest and could just put it in the garage this time of year.
 
Why does bulk conditioning clear beer better than it would in bottles over the same amount of time?

I don't think it does. Besides, if you let it clear in bulk, then bottle it, it's going to re-ferment in the bottles and have to clear again anyway. This is why I bottle as soon as I reach FG for a few days and no longer wait an extra week or too...I still have to wait for the beer to carbonate and clear in the bottles, and extended time in the primary (beyond several days after FG is reached) is just extending the process.
 
the reason i bulk condition (bulk clear?) is to keep as much of the yeast out of the bottle as possible. if the yeast (and other particulate) is going to flocc out, i'd rather have that happen in a carboy so i have less of a yeast cake at the bottom of my bottles. sooner or later some idiot is going to pour violently and kick up all the yeast. i'm just looking out for them/me and trying to limit the damage they cause. also limits the impact of rough transportation: if there is less yeast in the bottle, there is less to kick up when the bottle is shaken/bumped/tipped over/etc. there is plenty of yeast in suspension for carbonating the beer.
 
I have not been able to get crystal clarity in a beer that includes any grain (e.g., not all extract) until it has been in the fridge for at least a week. That has bee the case even when I have cold crashed for a week, kegged, and force carbed. Give it time in the fridge and it will clear.
 
Yup. Same here. I really think it's the finest silty,floury part of the grain crush dissolved in the beer. 1 week fridge time is an effective cold crash for this one. It's the only way it finally settles out.
 
Yup. Same here. I really think it's the finest silty,floury part of the grain crush dissolved in the beer. ! week fridge time is an effective cold crash for this one. It's the only way it finally settles out.

That's what I figure too. My first brew was my only all extract batch and I did not do anything right. Fermented 8 days, after 10 days in the bottle I started putting some in the fridge and they were pretty darn clear from the outset. That was without a wort chiller or cold crash.
 
I'm brewing with Chicago city water. I'll add some CaCl usually, gypsum occasionally, and lactic acid if the water calc says I need it. I only have PH test strips but things seem to be in the right range there.

HCO3- is at 129ppm by the water report. A little highish but nothing crazy at all. Should I look at diluting with distilled?

Can you link me to the water report you are referencing?
 
Here's a pic of my first brew, an ESB clone brew after 8 days in the primary. Not sure what I did right vs wrong but fwiw I used bottled spring water. Also when I boiled it for 60 minutes I couldn't get it to a hard boil on my electric stove and by the time it got a decent boil it probably added an extra 20 or so minutes.

image-2583190058.jpg
 
The beer looks fairly clear from here. Cold crashing and time should get you the rest of the way. Would still recommend BrewBrite in the boil.

Cheers!
 
Thanks Nano, it was extremely clear. I was very surprised myself.

I know it's way too soon after bottling (6 days), but I'm going to check out a bottle tomorrow and see how it tastes compared to last week.
 
That actually looks pretty similar to mine, which I consider cloudy. For example you can't see the countertop pattern through it except a little at the very bottom where the liquid is thin.
 
Just a thought...some beers are not expected to be all that clear. Couldn't find a mention of the recipes you are having problems with.

Do you have any wheat or rye or malts that should probably be mashed?
 
One thing I think I did was aerate at a to high of a temp which causes oxidation and I think caused my first brew to be pretty cloudy...
 
BrewBrite is a polyclar product, synthetic. Not sure of the shelf life. Rep recommended to me it be kept sealed in the freezer.

Yeast flocculation is time and sugar (actually lack of) dependent, plus strain character.

Cheers!

Good and interesting points you make about the yeast. I recently brewed a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale clone, my first all-grain, and after two weeks in primary, still very cloudy, and gravity down to about 1.010 - 1.012 from an OG of 1.053. I had used yeast harvested from Sierra Nevada bottles, which I thought had done surprisingly well. I had the harvested yeast growing in extract wort for about a week and it appeared to be a very robust sample. After 24 hours, fermenter had a great staccato rhythm going. Perhaps it was just too much yeast? I've racked to secondary yesterday but may have to try the gelatin for the first time.
 
Color and clarity are only 3 points on the BJCP exam, and for good reason. There are bad things which can cause clarity problems, but not all clarity problems are from bad things. Aroma and taste ultimately trump the day. However, I, too, am disappointed when I cannot get my beers crystal clear. But what is the metric? Almost all commercial beers are filtered, they use post kettle finings (Sierra Nevada uses Polyclar Plus, for example), and frankly, I haven't found that customers are all that concerned about clarity if the product tastes good. Having said that, if you don't filter, you need to run down your checklist, beginning with grain, crush, Ca++ levels, hot break, cold break, kettle finings, yeast strain, yeast health, need I go on? At the end of the day, it is Tincture of Time!

Cheers!

NanoMan
 
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