Wort Chillers

Two questions: are wort chillers (Immersion) worth the roughly $100 investment?

How quick should you cool your wort below 100 degrees right after the boil?

I ask this because after I did my second batch yesterday I realized how bad it sucks using a sink ice bath and constantly chilling the water.

I loved my IC (actually 2 because I use one to pre-chill the water in an iced cooler and the second one in the kettle...works like a champ.

If filling my new HLT with ice water and using my HERMS coil as a chiller is successful, I will be selling both immersion chilers, though.

I'd say that yes they are worth it. But, if you want to avoid it for now because of cost, another thing that has worked for me in the past has been using the bathtub instead of the sink. Way more water in there to transfer heat. Add $5 for a 20lb bag of ice and you'll get down there before you know it. Sometimes I would soak in the sink for that initial cool down and then transfer to the tube with ice so I don't melt everything right away. Whatever you are doing, just make sure you are clean and sterile.

It depends on how you do things, how much you value your time, and how much ice you are using. If you are buying 20lb of ice every batch, you'll make up the cost of the IC within 5-6 batches. Then the IC isn't as much of a pain in the ass - drop it in, run water, and wait.

For me, the IC was a no brainer because the cost and benefits far outweighed the pain in the ass of an ice bath.

MinnesnowtaBrew said:

Two questions: are wort chillers (Immersion) worth the roughly $100 investment?

How quick should you cool your wort below 100 degrees right after the boil?

I ask this because after I did my second batch yesterday I realized how bad it sucks using a sink ice bath and constantly chilling the water.

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Other people more experienced than me can tell you how quickly you need to cool the beer before it has issues, but I will tell you that an immersion chiller is a great investment. I did my first batch without one and it took a solid hour and all the ice in my freezer to get the beer down to 75 degrees. I went online immediately and bought a 3/8" x 50' wort chiller and love it. Even in the summer, when the water from the faucet I hook up to runs a little warmer, it gets the temp down in 20 minutes tops.

I told my fiancée that's what I what I wanted for Xmas but I don't think I can wait that long. I'm going to just buy one.

What about the temps? How quick should you get your boil down for an optimal cool down?

jwaldman11 said:

Other people more experienced than me can tell you how quickly you need to cool the beer before it has issues, but I will tell you that an immersion chiller is a great investment. I did my first batch without one and it took a solid hour and all the ice in my freezer to get the beer down to 75 degrees. I went online immediately and bought a 3/8" x 50' wort chiller and love it. Even in the summer, when the water from the faucet I hook up to runs a little warmer, it gets the temp down in 20 minutes tops.

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Sweet, I'm definitely going to bite the bullet and get one. Thanks for the feedback.

I love mine. I got the copper tubing myself from Home Depot and made one by wrapping it around a keg. Whether you make your own or not... make sure to get snap fittings from the garden section so all you have to do is plug and unplug the hoses from the chiller. Their like $2 and make things incredibly effortless.

I recommend buying a stainless one. They are available for the ~cost of the tubing from nybrewsupply, and a few other places as well. Stainless is now the same price, or cheaper, than copper. The stainless ones seem easier to keep clean, and have no issues with standard cleaners/sanitizers (oxyclean/star-san). The stainless tubing they use is much thinner than the copper tubing used for ICs, so the heat transfer ends up being better even though copper is a better conductor. Besides the beneficial effect of small amounts of copper as a yeast nutrient, which may or may not be necessary depending on your water, and can be added other ways easily enough; there are no real advantages to a copper chiller.

If you can find an extra lid for your pot, you can mount it in the lid for a better fit. Agitating the wort to improve transfer helps things- a lot. If you have a pump, this is done by simply recirc'ing. Without using a pump, if you mount it off center, you could spin/twist the lid back and forth without much exposure. This is only an idea, so it may/may not work, but moving it up/down has worked for me when not recirc'ing.

NewBrewB said:

I loved my IC (actually 2 because I use one to pre-chill the water in an iced cooler and the second one in the kettle...works like a champ.

If filling my new HLT with ice water and using my HERMS coil as a chiller is successful, I will be selling both immersion chilers, though.

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I have heard the HERMS coils work, but need agitation in the HLT, which I assume you have a second pump for. One disadvantage of using the HERMS coil as the chiller is the increased ice usage, since all chilling needs to be done with ice. A more ice efficient strategy is using the HLT as the open ice bath for use with an IC (or recirc'ing plate chiller, CFC) after tap water has hit its limit.

Using a second IC as a prechiller is not as effective as doing an open ice batch recirc. Chilling with tap until ~20F temp diff, then switching to an ice bath recirc is the most common strategy. If you don't have a pump for recirc'ing to the ice bath, using a pre-chiller will help, but isn't really needed until the same ~20F diff has been reached. Until that point, it is just wasting ice for no meaningful benefit.

An IC as a prechiller is more suitable for use with a (non-recirc'ing) CFC when tap water is warmer than pitching temps, or higher flow is desired.

cwi said:

I have heard the HERMS coils work, but need agitation in the HLT, which I assume you have a second pump for. One disadvantage of using the HERMS coil as the chiller is the increased ice usage, since all chilling needs to be done with ice. A more ice efficient strategy is using the HLT as the open ice bath for use with an IC (or recirc'ing plate chiller, CFC) after tap water has hit its limit.

Using a second IC as a prechiller is not as effective as doing an open ice batch recirc. Chilling with tap until ~20F temp diff, then switching to an ice bath recirc is the most common strategy. If you don't have a pump for recirc'ing to the ice bath, using a pre-chiller will help, but isn't really needed until the same ~20F diff has been reached. Until that point, it is just wasting ice for no meaningful benefit.

An IC as a prechiller is more suitable for use with a (non-recirc'ing) CFC when tap water is warmer than pitching temps, or higher flow is desired.

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I scored an ice maker last year and installed it in my wet bar, so I have 35 lbs of ice available whenever. I'm not really worried about wasting ice or the cost of ice, as much as the inconvenience of carrying it in a bucket out to the garage. haha

That is a good point about using a pump to recirc. I have 2 pumps that I bought for my kal e-build but have not used them yet. I guess I could do that, now that I'm almost operational with my control panel. Interesting ideas.

This looks like a good deal ($89 shipped https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f41/89...hiller-free-shipping-limited-time-only-359923), even if you have to add the hookups. You could convert it to a HERMS coil at a later time if you desire to go that route or it should at least always have a good resale value.

http://www.stainlessbrewing.com/50ft-12-immersion-chiller_p_134.html

shelly_belly said:

This looks like a good deal ($89 shipped https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f41/89...hiller-free-shipping-limited-time-only-359923), even if you have to add the hookups. You could convert it to a HERMS coil at a later time if you desire to go that route or it should at least always have a good resale value.

http://www.stainlessbrewing.com/50ft-12-immersion-chiller_p_134.html

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I suppose that one would work since the vendor is an HBT sponsor and all. I personally prefer the nybrewsupply guy for SS chillers- his tubing is thinner walled (which is a good thing). He will also custom make one (diameter/height) for the same price as the standard models, or bulk tubing cost. His come with the garden hose fittings, or are at least available as a package/separately.

Yes, an immersion chiller is a great investment for a new brewer. I got a copper one with my deluxe starter kit, but I think if I had to buy from scratch I'd probably go stainless. Chilling the wort from boiling quickly is very important in getting a good cold break (crashing out dissolved proteins into the trub from thermal shock/denaturation) which helps prevent chill haze and other issues that affect clarity of your finished beer. It also helps to avoid contamination via air and problems with DMS which can make your beer taste corny or vegetal.

NewBrewB said:

I scored an ice maker last year and installed it in my wet bar, so I have 35 lbs of ice available whenever. I'm not really worried about wasting ice or the cost of ice, as much as the inconvenience of carrying it in a bucket out to the garage. haha

That is a good point about using a pump to recirc. I have 2 pumps that I bought for my kal e-build but have not used them yet. I guess I could do that, now that I'm almost operational with my control panel. Interesting ideas.

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Having an icemaker definitely takes the cost/hassle factor off the 'Cons' list for using ice only.

I like to get my batches below 100F as quick as possible to preserve hop aroma. I think it would be a close race between chilling an entire batch below 100F with ice and a HERMS coil vs. an IC with tap water going full bore. My money is on tap water and an IC. The most you are going to get out of your pumps through the HERMs coil is ~5gal/min, and that is if you followed Kal's spec and got the center inlet pumps. (I don't know why shops still try to sell the inline models to homebrewers).

shelly_belly said:

This looks like a good deal ($89 shipped https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f41/89...hiller-free-shipping-limited-time-only-359923), even if you have to add the hookups. You could convert it to a HERMS coil at a later time if you desire to go that route or it should at least always have a good resale value.

http://www.stainlessbrewing.com/50ft-12-immersion-chiller_p_134.html

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Hey! That's what I have! Picked it up at my LHBS. Works like a charm cooling my wort to 80-85degF in <10mins. I still have to use a quickie ice bath to get down to pitching temps.

MinnesnowtaBrew,
I have a 50 foot 1/2 inch copper IC. I have a 15 gallon kettle, but am only making 5 gallon batches at the present, though I plan on 10 gallons in teh future.

When I use my IC, I also stir the wort as its cooling. It cools down quite fast. The cooling slows as you approach 20F above your tap water (ground water) temperature.
For use in the summer, I have a cooler ($40)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000F6UJ5K/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
that I fill with chilled water, and pump cold water through the chiller, once its cooled down to 20F or so above tap water.

This is the pump - you will need some tubing - pumps fast enough -
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006M6MTMI/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

This works well, and is easy to clean. The only chore is remembering to freeze some cooling packs to chill the water in the cooler.

ArcLight said:

MinnesnowtaBrew,
I have a 50 foot 1/2 inch copper IC. I have a 15 gallon kettle, but am only making 5 gallon batches at the present, though I plan on 10 gallons in teh future.

When I use my IC, I also stir the wort as its cooling. It cools down quite fast. The cooling slows as you approach 20F above your tap water (ground water) temperature.
For use in the summer, I have a cooler ($40)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000F6UJ5K/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00
that I fill with chilled water, and pump cold water through the chiller, once its cooled down to 20F or so above tap water.

This is the pump - you will need some tubing - pumps fast enough -
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006M6MTMI/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00

This works well, and is easy to clean. The only chore is remembering to freeze some cooling packs to chill the water in the cooler.

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Sweet thanks ArcLight! I guess I'm just a little hesitant stirring my wort while it's chilling because of a possible infection from the air? Should I not worry about that?

I just got an IC (25'x3/8" copper) and I am very happy with it. I've used it for one batch, and it was a lot easier than the cold water bath. Two big benefits: less risk of splashing the wort out or the water in while in the bath, and no need to move a kettle full of near-boiling wort across the kitchen. My hoses are long enough that I just turn off the burner on my stove and turn on the chiller.

Minnesnowta, I would not worry at all about an infection from the air unless I did a lot of baking in my kitchen and thought I might have yeast floating around like crazy. I suppose if there were flies or other bugs around, it'd be a bad idea as well. I just leave my stainless steel spoon in throughout the boil so it is sanitized, and continue stirring with it until it's cold. (I do PM, so I only have to get it down to about 85 and I can pitch immediately after diluting with cold water).

cwi said:

that is if you followed Kal's spec and got the center inlet pumps. (I don't know why shops still try to sell the inline models to homebrewers).

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Yeah I went with the center input March but not SS heads...just couldnt justify hemmorhaging any more money into the project

MinnesnowtaBrew said:

Sweet thanks ArcLight! I guess I'm just a little hesitant stirring my wort while it's chilling because of a possible infection from the air? Should I not worry about that?

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It is probably a bit overblown due to the amount of yeast that will be pitched. However, minimizing sources of possible contamination is prudent. If it is windy out, or you have any trees nearby/above, there is a good chance of something blowing/falling in.

For an IC, the main strategy is either notching the lid at the edge, or installing it through holes in the lid. Notching is easier, while installing in the lid seals things up better. In my earlier post I talked about mounting it slightly off-center to allow for agitating the wort by twisting/rotating the lid. A even fancier solution is to mount a stirring paddle in the lid that can be powered by a drill or small motor.

MinnesnowtaBrew said:

I told my fiancée that's what I what I wanted for Xmas but I don't think I can wait that long. I'm going to just buy one.

What about the temps? How quick should you get your boil down for an optimal cool down?

Click to expand...

Rouge and wild yeasts/bacterias LOVE 100-130 degree sugary wort/environment. Im no expert but from what i heard general drop with an ice batch will get u down to 150 but that "range" for harmful bacterias just last to long on an ice chill. also you want to experience whats called "cold break" chilling the wort fast enough will yield you with a clearer and tasty brew.

My $0.02. Build your own chiller, FYI you can get the copper tubing cheaper online than you can from a local hardware store or Lowes, HD, etc... In fact there is a copper tubing supplier on the internet that sells ready to assemble chiller kits. Also, on my last batch I purchased a 650 GPM pond pump from Harbor Freight for like $35 and hooked it up to the supply side of the wort chiller and stuck it in a big igloo cooler full of ice water. i let the return line run into the driveway for the first couple minutes and then i reciruclated back into the cooler. As the ice melted I pulled the return line out again and let the water level in the cooler get lower until i could dump in another bag of ice. I went through probably 6 bags of ice and got the 6 gallons of boiling wort down to around 60F in about 20 minutes flat. Wort got cold enough that i had condensation on the side of the boil kettle.

USAFSooner said:

My $0.02. Build your own chiller, FYI you can get the copper tubing cheaper online than you can from a local hardware store or Lowes, HD, etc... In fact there is a copper tubing supplier on the internet that sells ready to assemble chiller kits.

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Lately, copper tubing is more expensive than stainless, and the nybrewsupply.com guy sells stainless chillers for about the same price as raw tubing. I have only seen a handful of home bent chillers that don't look like an elementary school art project. It is possible to DIY a nice one, but it takes some skill, usually acquired through screwing the first one up.

USAFSooner said:

Also, on my last batch I purchased a 650 GPM pond pump from Harbor Freight for like $35 and hooked it up to the supply side of the wort chiller and stuck it in a big igloo cooler full of ice water. i let the return line run into the driveway for the first couple minutes and then i reciruclated back into the cooler. As the ice melted I pulled the return line out again and let the water level in the cooler get lower until i could dump in another bag of ice. I went through probably 6 bags of ice and got the 6 gallons of boiling wort down to around 60F in about 20 minutes flat. Wort got cold enough that i had condensation on the side of the boil kettle.

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Using ice water doesn't gain you much for the initial part of the chill. The temp diff is already at least 130F. The sweet spot seems to be a 20-30F temp diff between wort and tap temps before switching to the ice bath for input. To minimize ice use further, until the exhaust from the chiller is colder than tap temps, the discharge can be dumped and the ice bath replenished with tap water, just as you stated in your post.

This way uses more water, but less ice. Chill time will not be much different, and may even be faster since you can run the chiller wide open giving much more flow than the pump will provide. It isn't that much water either way you do it, and the exhaust can always be used for either cleaning or watering the yard.

i built my own out of copper i got from HD and other assorted parts. cost me <$50.

but if you want nice, SS and ready to go, you def cant go wrong with anything from stainless brewing. the guy who runs it is pretty awesome.

shelly_belly said:

This looks like a good deal ($89 shipped https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f41/89...hiller-free-shipping-limited-time-only-359923), even if you have to add the hookups. You could convert it to a HERMS coil at a later time if you desire to go that route or it should at least always have a good resale value.

http://www.stainlessbrewing.com/50ft-12-immersion-chiller_p_134.html

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I wonder if anyone has reworked old air conditioner innards to build a chiller. Just plug it in and let the freon coils do their job.

I made my immersion chiller myself with copper tubing wrapped around a piece of large diameter pvc pipe. Down south, in the summer my tap water temp is pretty high. I had left over copper pipe and 90's from a remodel so I made another square chiller that fits inside a 5 gallon bucket. I fill that bucket with a slurry of ice and water and drop the prechiller in there. I'm no engineer, but I believe with the larger diameter of the pre chiller going into the smaller chiller, I can get more colder water flowing into the hot wort. I can usually get down to 80 degrees in around 10 minuets.

JDFlow said:

I wonder if anyone has reworked old air conditioner innards to build a chiller. Just plug it in and let the freon coils do their job.

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Window A/C units work for DIY glycol chillers. Used directly in the wort, they would not be as fast as an IC using tap water, much less an ice bath. If you used the A/C unit to chill a large reservoir of liquid ahead of time, you could use that as the IC chiller feed. That is what the big boys do.

KNOTSANE said:

I had left over copper pipe and 90's from a remodel so I made another square chiller that fits inside a 5 gallon bucket. I fill that bucket with a slurry of ice and water and drop the prechiller in there. I can usually get down to 80 degrees in around 10 minuets.

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With warm tap temps, getting from 80 to pitching temps is the tough part. Once the temp plateaus using straight tap water, switching to an open ice bath input with a pump to recirc through the chiller is your best bet when using an IC.

Prechillers are better suited for use with CFC or plate chillers when chilling en route to the fermentor.

An immersion chiller is awesome. But I wouldnt waste money on a "pre-chiller". IMHO prechillers just dont do enough fast enough for the money. I found that for the same or less money I could buy a pond/fountian pump. I attach this to my immersion chiller and drop it in a bucket of ice with enough water in it to cover the pump. This circulates ice cold water through my IC and really cools the wort down great!

Johnnyhitch1 said:

Rouge and wild yeasts/bacterias LOVE 100-130 degree sugary wort/environment. Im no expert but from what i heard general drop with an ice batch will get u down to 150 but that "range" for harmful bacterias just last to long on an ice chill. also you want to experience whats called "cold break" chilling the wort fast enough will yield you with a clearer and tasty brew.

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My ice baths weren't much slower than ICs, just more of a PITA. If your sanitation is good, I don't believe the risk of infection is much higher. People successfully chill without either an IC or a bath. Post-boil, the wort is as close to sterile as you can get without an autoclave... It's going to take some time (and something getting in) before it can even start growing bacteria.

As for the cold break, I've not had any trouble getting extremely clear beers even with rather slow cooling. I think you can pretty well make up for this with patience later in the process.