Saison Boulevard Smokestack Series Tank 7 Farmhouse Ale Clone

3724 shouldn't taste tart as far as I know. Brett wouldn't taste sour to any large degree. That mostly comes from lacto or pedio. If it was lightly tart, I might say its the yeast but very tart makes me think infection. Any other signs or off flavors?

bd2xu said:

This has been kegged for a month now and I've been drinking it. I like it, but it is very tart. I didn't add Brett but it tastes what I'd think that tastes like (have had the Tank 7 Brett once... it was on tap and awesome). Should this recipe with WY3724 come out with a natural tartness to it? I honestly don't know if it's tasting like it should or if it's an infection. It looks great as you can see...

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What temps did you ferment at?

Schumed said:

What temps did you ferment at?

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Started at 68 and ramped all the way to 90-95 over a weeks time. Kept it at or above 90 for several weeks. It took about 6 weeks to finish off at 1.012.

I've gotten a sense of tartness from Amarillo's before, so it's probably a combo of the yeast & hops providing the tartness. BTW - the yeast description says "very tart", so there you go...

http://www.wyeastlab.com/rw_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=60

Interesting my experience with it was not tart at all. Well there's you answer.

MNDan said:

I've gotten a sense of tartness from Amarillo's before, so it's probably a combo of the yeast & hops providing the tartness. BTW - the yeast description says "very tart", so there you go...

http://www.wyeastlab.com/rw_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=60

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Wow how I'd I miss that?! Thanks. I like it okay, I just don't want to be drinking and infection thinking that it is supposed to be that way

wskee said:

Nice Schumed! Thanks for sharing the info. I just brewed my first attempt at this one. This is what I came up with based on everyone's suggestions and I went the original suggestion of more wheat for the first try.

5.5gal batch

11lb Pale belg 2 row
3lb Flaked Corn
1.4 Wheat
(1.5 oz of carafa II for color) as a previous poster suggested

.20 oz magnum @60 I was tempted to bump this up but stuck to 6.9 ibu
.25 oz simcoe @45
3.5 oz amarillo @5min

Mashed @ 152º for 60 mins

I used the 3724 belgian saison yeast since the LBS did not have 3726.

My preboil gravity was 1.054 and I missed my OG by quite a bit for some reason, 1.065. The mill at the LBS was jamming up and I had forgotten to dump my wheat malt in. After it was unjammed and an employee adjusted it, I ran it through and it did not mill it well at all so I ran it back through but who knows if that affected it. They were closing and I wanted to get out of there so I went with it. I am looking forward to buying my own mill soon...

I was planning on a small dry hop of amarillo as well. I will post how this came out.

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Is this the preferred recipe for a Tank 7 clone now, with either 3724 or 3726?

Question about hopping this: the Boulevard website says the current hops are Magnum, Bravo, and Amarillo. I have Magnum as the 60 min addition, and Amarillo the dry-hop, but where would the Bravo go? 45 min for bitterness, or more like 20-15 for flavor?

I've perused the thread and it seems like either 20 or 45 are when most people add the middle addition. What's gotten you closest?

Thanks!

eulipion2 said:

Question about hopping this: the Boulevard website says the current hops are Magnum, Bravo, and Amarillo. I have Magnum as the 60 min addition, and Amarillo the dry-hop, but where would the Bravo go? 45 min for bitterness, or more like 20-15 for flavor?

I've perused the thread and it seems like either 20 or 45 are when most people add the middle addition. What's gotten you closest?

Thanks!

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Look at my recipe that is straight from Boulevard....sub For the sim or addition...I believe they have changed to Bravo because its probably cheaper and easily available

Okay, so based on the proportions given for grains in post #15 (70/20/10), here's what I've come up with:

6 gallons, 75% efficiency

11 lb US Pale Malt (70%)
3 lb flaked corn (19%)
1.75 lb Wheat malt (11%)

.5 oz Magnum, 13.5% AA, 60 min (17 IBU)
.625 oz Bravo, 15.5% AA, 45 min (22 IBU)
1.5 oz Amarillo, 9.5% AA, dry hop (0 IBU)

Wyeast 3711 French Saison

OG: 1.072
FG: 1.010
IBU: 39
SRM: 4.3
ABV: 8.3%

Post #15 is from two years ago, so I'm sure things have changed a bit. Schumed, you have a 5 minute Amarillo addition. Is that what Boulevard does currently, or was that your interpretation? That just seems like an awful lot of green matter.

eulipion2 said:

Okay, so based on the proportions given for grains in post #15 (70/20/10), here's what I've come up with:

6 gallons, 75% efficiency

11 lb US Pale Malt (70%)
3 lb flaked corn (19%)
1.75 lb Wheat malt (11%)

.5 oz Magnum, 13.5% AA, 60 min (17 IBU)
.625 oz Bravo, 15.5% AA, 45 min (22 IBU)
1.5 oz Amarillo, 9.5% AA, dry hop (0 IBU)

Wyeast 3711 French Saison

OG: 1.072
FG: 1.010
IBU: 39
SRM: 4.3
ABV: 8.3%

Post #15 is from two years ago, so I'm sure things have changed a bit. Schumed, you have a 5 minute Amarillo addition. Is that what Boulevard does currently, or was that your interpretation? That just seems like an awful lot of green matter.

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You can email boulevard directly to get the recipe if you are curious. I doubt it's changed dramatically with possible exception of bittering addition.

I am going to attempt this next weekend, my LHBS is out of Amarillo and Simcoe so I subbed Falconer's for both. Is there a better hop sub to use that is commonly available?

Here is the recipe:




1) I haven't done a starter before, is it mandatory? If I don't, should I pitch two yeast packs instead?

2) I don't have a way to control the temp on the warmer side, should I start my fermentation at my typical 68 (swamp cooler) then after a few days leave it at room temp (72 ambient)?

3) How many carbonation volumes for this clone?

Not sure about the hops but I'd say anything you like. I did this recipe to a T and it was good but not a super close clone. On the yeast, very important. I like to use yeastcalc.com to figure out how much to use. Great tool.

Oh and mash low. I mashed too high, about 156. It was a little too sweet a saison should really be dry.

Mash low - we shot for 151F
Ferment hot - like 85-90F with 3724 yeast

Our version isn't nearly as funky as the real thing, but it is dry and refreshing. The BJCP description for saison says effervescent, if I recall, so carb up!

Pre-gelatinized Corn Flakes

That is the same as flaked corn, right?

Thanks!
-Mike

Based on my recipe above (but used 2x packets of Danstar Belle Saison instead) after one week it went from 1.073 to 1.004. Finishing very low.

Tasted ok, never tried this recipe (or a Saison) before so nothing to compare to. Sensed a hot alcohol taste, not too noticeable though.

Fermented at about 68 then up to 75 after a few days.

Just dry hopped it and will check on it in another week.

F250 said:

Has anyone tried the Danstar Belle Saison yeast on this?

Rick

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I used that yeast and it turned out really well if you were still wondering. I didnt use a starter I just rehydrated for half of an hour like it said on the package and pitched. It ended up taking the beer down to 1.010

savannahbrew said:

I used that yeast and it turned out really well if you were still wondering. I didnt use a starter I just rehydrated for half of an hour like it said on the package and pitched. It ended up taking the beer down to 1.010

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I wound up pitching 2 packets of Belle Saison. Went from 1.073 to 1.004 after 7 days. I am checking again tonight and may bottle tomorrow/wednesday.

Glad to hear it turned out well, can't wait to try it!

geoffm33 said:

I wound up pitching 2 packets of Belle Saison. Went from 1.073 to 1.004 after 7 days. I am checking again tonight and may bottle tomorrow/wednesday.

Glad to hear it turned out well, can't wait to try it!

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So I just tried this out, it's been in the bottle for about 3 weeks. It starts off great...but finishes with a boozey taste. It had really high attenuation (likely due to the two packets, maybe should have just done one) and has a dry taste but the estimated 8.3% wound up at ~10%. And you can taste the alcohol.

I had the fermenter in a water bath with frozen water bottles keeping the temp around 68 for the first 3 or so days. Then I just let it ride after that, getting up to about 75° tops (temp probe taped to side of fermenter).

Not undrinkable, but not what I was shooting for.

Give it some time. A 10% beer will usually be better with some aging.

Will do. Would leaving it in the fermenter longer have a positive effect in regards to the alcohol taste? I had it in for about 3 weeks.

That should be long enough assuming it's done fermenting. I'd rack to a secondary or keg.

bd2xu said:

That should be long enough assuming it's done fermenting. I'd rack to a secondary or keg.

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It was done fermenting. Bottled it few weeks ago. I'll just give it a month or so more in the bottle then taste again. Thanks!

BS is giving me around 10 IBUs for my recipe:

.5oz northern brewer (trying to use up what I have) at 60
.25oz simcoe at 45
3.5oz amirillo at 5 minutes
.5oz amarillo dry hop

That is only a third of what this is supposed to have... suggestions?

hammy48 said:

BS is giving me around 10 IBUs for my recipe:

.5oz northern brewer (trying to use up what I have) at 60
.25oz simcoe at 45
3.5oz amirillo at 5 minutes
.5oz amarillo dry hop

That is only a third of what this is supposed to have... suggestions?

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Add more hops.

hammy48 said:

BS is giving me around 10 IBUs for my recipe:
.5oz northern brewer (trying to use up what I have) at 60
.25oz simcoe at 45
3.5oz amirillo at 5 minutes
.5oz amarillo dry hop
That is only a third of what this is supposed to have... suggestions?

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You aren't following the recipe schedule and anyways-- It depends a lot on the boil gravity and of course the AA% of the hops. The 5 min addition will give some bitterness but you should probably move an ounce or so to the 60 min addition.

Modified my recipe to:

1oz northern brewer at 60 (9.3)
.7oz simcoe at 45 (9.1)
1oz amarillo at 10 (3.4)
2.5oz amarillo at flameout (1)
.5oz amarillo dry hop

Total of 22.8 IBU

Trying to keep my recipe as close to the email from Paul as possible (see below). BS says I would need 35 ounces of amarillo at 5 minutes to get the IBUs in the email from him... so I set it at 2.5 because that is closer to what everybody was posting for recipes and still gets me close in IBUs.

Magnum 6.4 IBUs at 98C
Simcoe 7.1 IBUs at 15 minutes after beginning of boil
Amarillo 14.0 IBUs at 65 minutes after beginning of boil (or 5 minutes before end of boil)
Amarillo 9.6 IBUs in the whirlpool

OK. Time to pitch in here:

Brewed the bad boy mid June, using the recipe given below. This recipe was derived from a few sources, but primarily from the Boulevard email posted somewhere in this thread.

This came out really close to Tank-7, although a little "hotter" since it finished at 9.1% ABV. Final gravity at 1.003. Should have stopped it at 1.006-1.008. I'll explain below.

5.5 gal batch. 70% overall efficiency.

12 lbs Belgian 2-Row (78%)
3 lbs Flaked Corn (20%)
6 oz White Wheat (3%)

2.3 AAU Magnum - 70 mins (.18 oz of 12.6%)
2.7 AAU Simcoe - 5 mins (.21 oz of 13%)
25.5 AAU Amarillo - 5 mins (3 oz of 8.5%)
25.5 AAU Amarillo - Whirlpool (3oz of 8.5%)
5.25 AAU Amarillo - Dry Hop 3 days (.5 oz of 8.5%)

Wyeast 3724 - Belgian Saison
Wyeast 3711 - French Saison

Mash
145 - 50 mins
155 - 25 mins
163 - 15 mins
168 - mashout 10 mins

Fermentation
- 1.5L starter of 3724 for 4 days at 70*. Dropped from OG=1.072 to 1.042.
- Added 1.5L starter of 3711 to primary
- Fermented 14 more days at 72-74*. Gravity dropped to 1.003 (!). Was still fermenting steadily when I cold-crashed it and fined it to stop fermentation. Racked to the keg and dry-hopped at room temp.

Note that I fermented very much on the cool side, because I wanted NO bubblegum flavor. As expected, the 3724 stalled out (or at least slowed way down) pretty quickly. I didn't really want to wait a month, or jack up the temp, so I added the 3711. As noted elsewhere, 3711 is an ungodly terror, and just tore through the proto-beer.

After a week or so of lagering in the keg, this was already drinking really well, if still a little green - but it definitely improves with some age. After a few more weeks, it was going fast, so I beer-gunned a couple of six packs, and have continued to sample it every couple of weeks since. I can definitely say that at 2-3 months, this was really close to Tank 7, and it continues to age wonderfully.

I've seen some recipes with a lot less late-boil Amarillo. I think this is a mistake. This beer really needs to lean heavily on the flavor/aroma of the Amarillo, so don't hold back here. I know the mash schedule is complex. I don't really know how much difference the 3-step mash makes, but I think it helps to do the long mash at 145* and then one in the high 150's. This helps to keep it super dry and tart, again reinforcing that Amarillo grapefruit bite.

The only thing I would change is to increase the dry hop to an ounce of Amarillo. Also, stop the fermentation a little sooner - closer to 1.010 than 1.001. Mine was a tad too dry.

This is a dangerously refreshing brew. I had it ready for the dog days of summer. You don't realize how much kick there is until you try to stand up after a pint or two.

Will try to post a picture later.

Boston Strong!

If I put that (dancemyth's) hop schedule in BS I get very low IBUs... that was the reason I made my original post. However based on what everybody is posting I think that seems to be the right schedule so I am going to finally go with 1oz of NB at 60 and then .75oz simcoe and 4oz of amarillo at 5/whirlpool and 1oz dry hop. Cant afford any more amarillo otherwise I would be adding more!

Thanks for reporting those results and following the boulevard schedule so closely! I should be brewing this in the next few weeks and will post back with my results.

Boston strong indeed!

Not a great pic, but here's the beer I made. Foamy head lasts about a week. Leaves great lacing.
IBUs did calculate low, but seemed comparable to the real thing to me.

Mine has been stuck at 1.03 even after ramping up to 88....any other suggestions that have worked for all? Pitch another yeast?

Wyeast 3711 should finish it off, assuming 1) extract was fresh, or 2) you didn't overshoot your mash temp, depending on how you brewed it.

All grain - definitely didn't overshoot but stalled with saison yeast and added 3711 wyeast and brought to 88 no luck!!!

hbr2547 said:

All grain - definitely didn't overshoot but stalled with saison yeast and added 3711 wyeast and brought to 88 no luck!!!

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Wow! I've never seen 3711 stall anywhere higher than 1.006, and even that was no higher than 75 degrees! What grain did you use as your base malt? Was it fresh? Are you sure you didn't accidentally use a specialty grain like Victory instead of a base malt?

eulipion2 said:

Wow! I've never seen 3711 stall anywhere higher than 1.006, and even that was no higher than 75 degrees! What grain did you use as your base malt? Was it fresh? Are you sure you didn't accidentally use a specialty grain like Victory instead of a base malt?

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idefinitely positive - I didn't make a starter though. All went well. To be honest I've only used 3711 once and it ripped through my last beer.

Well then, how long has it been stuck at 1.030? I really have no other ideas to finish that off.

About a week - I'm going to make a 1.5 liter starter and oxygenate starter an pitch - this doesn't work I'm out of luck

Brewed this last night using Schumed recipe. Thanks! Hit numbers I was looking for and used WYeast 3726 with starter.

I just noticed this recipe comes in around 7.5 ABV. Looks like Boulevard has it at 8.5 ABV. Sounds like the recipe is solid but why the discrepancy? And/or what's it missing?

fatboy34 said:

Brewed this last night using Schumed recipe. Thanks! Hit numbers I was looking for and used WYeast 3726 with starter.

I just noticed this recipe comes in around 7.5 ABV. Looks like Boulevard has it at 8.5 ABV. Sounds like the recipe is solid but why the discrepancy? And/or what's it missing?

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my final gravity was 1.016....mine needed to dry out more to be a closer clone...like 1.006 what would be the extra ABV...

I've had more people say mine taste closer to Chainbreaker White IPA which I would agree...both are great beers