Mash water/sparge water ratio

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Philsc

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Could someone please clear up for me what's going on with the mash/sparge water ratios?

I've read that you should mash with a third of one's pre-boil volume, so that you are sparging with twice as much water - two batch sparges.

I also read that you should mash with close to half then top up the water to just under half in the last 10 minutes.

John Palmer says that you should sparge with the same amount of water as you mash with.

Phil
 
1.25 quarts per pound of grain is the average water/grain ratio. However, some people around here have experimented with a higher ratio and have reported much success.

With batch sparging, if you are doing two just do them in equal batches. Divide your water in half and use each one for the sparge. :)
 
Shoot for 1.5 quarts per pound of grain on the mash ratio. The sparge is more of a fixed volume thing rather than a ratio. After you collect first runnings, just figure out how much more wort you need for your preboil volume and use that amount. Of course, how much preboil volume you need is tied to how much boiloff you get and you have to guess that for the first few batches. It's somewhere between 1-2 gallons per hour. I start with 7.25 gallons to get 5.75 gallons into the fermenter.
 
Yeah, BobbyM's got it, as usual.

It comes down to what you're doing in each step. This is a pretty rudimentary way of looking at it, but this is how I see it.

Mashing is to activate the enzymes and convert starches to sugar. The water to grist ratio is important. 1.75 to 1.25 qt H20/ lb grain is enough that you can get everything wet and the enzymes are in high enough concentration that conversion doesn't take all day.

Sparging is to rinse the wort from the grains. The volume here is related to your pre-boil volume. You want to use as much water in your sparge as you can. This is to get as much wort out of your grains as you can. I single batch sparge and sometimes double batch sparge with a lower volume if my grain bill is big.
 
Well my whole first AG batch turned into a disaster. Between temps and now its totally stuck. LOL. Am drain it with my autosiphon, which seems to be working. Hopefully it works out. Going to buy a false bottom kit.
 
My 1st partial mash had 5lb of grains,so I mashed with 1.5 gallons of distilled water. Had trouble 1st 15 minutes getting mash temp stable at 155-156F. Sparged with 1.5 gallons of water & got in the middle of the listed OG range. But the sparge temp was 155F...160 would likely have been better to get more wort washed out of the grains. To my thinking anyway.
 
Just a word of caution, if you over sparge your grains you will extract tannins, and it won't help the flavor of your beer one bit.

Sometimes I have wort left in my mash tun because it won't fit in my brew pot, in those instances I just leave it there, it's usually only about 1/2 gallon. For me I would figure a .5 gallon of water for every pound of grain to sparge with.
 
I think I'm going to give all-grain a try on my next batch and will go the BIAB method since I have a steaming basket with my new kettle. I boiled 5 gallons of water in my new kettle just to see what my boil off rate was for 60 minutes and it's 1.5 gallons. So I was thinking (I'm just throwing numbers out so you guys can check my math)..

1) If I have a 9 lb grain bill and use the 1.5 qts/lb of grain ration, I'll need 3.375 gallons (1.5qts x 9lbs = 13.5 qts or 3.375gal) to mash with, correct?

2) After mashing, collect my first runnings of wort (aka: let the basket hang and drip dry) and see what I need to bring that up to 7.5 gallons. Let's say I need 4 more gallons, I can just do two more 2 gallon sparges, right?

3) If I go over 7.5 gallons of wort, boil down to 7.5, then start my hop schedule?

I know those numbers might not make sense (especially for grain absorption), but I'm just throwing that out to see if my math is right and if that's how the basic process works. Other things like gravity readings etc., I know to take and write down for future reference.

Sorry OP, if high jack your thread.
 
I have my system pretty dialed in...sometimes miss post boil volums a small amount. I mash with 1.25 quarts of water per pound of grain. so for your 9 pound grain bill I would heat up 9x1.25/4.....= 2.8125 gallons of water for my strike water.. that is a pain to figure exactly so I would go with 3 gallons.....I know that with my mash tun I lose .13 gallons per pound of grain to absorption and a tiny amount of dead space so my frst runnings would be 3 gallons minus ( 9 X.13)=1.17 so 3 - 1.17 =1.83 gallons in the brew pot from first runnings. I make 5 gallon batches and have a 1.5 gallon per hour boil off so I need 6.5 gallons in the brew pot....so 6.5 minus 1.83 =4.67 gallons of sparge water...so I would use 4.5 gallons plus a pint and split that into two batch sparges.... I just reread this and it confused me and I wrote it.......I will say that my efficiency went way up after switching to double sparging...the only time that doesn't seem to work is on really big grain bills.....there isn't enough sparge water neeed to split it sometimes.. so I either batch sparge once ORRR boil longer to allow for more water in the sparge.
 
I think I'm going to give all-grain a try on my next batch and will go the BIAB method since I have a steaming basket with my new kettle. I boiled 5 gallons of water in my new kettle just to see what my boil off rate was for 60 minutes and it's 1.5 gallons. So I was thinking (I'm just throwing numbers out so you guys can check my math)..

1) If I have a 9 lb grain bill and use the 1.5 qts/lb of grain ration, I'll need 3.375 gallons (1.5qts x 9lbs = 13.5 qts or 3.375gal) to mash with, correct?

2) After mashing, collect my first runnings of wort (aka: let the basket hang and drip dry) and see what I need to bring that up to 7.5 gallons. Let's say I need 4 more gallons, I can just do two more 2 gallon sparges, right?

3) If I go over 7.5 gallons of wort, boil down to 7.5, then start my hop schedule?

I know those numbers might not make sense (especially for grain absorption), but I'm just throwing that out to see if my math is right and if that's how the basic process works. Other things like gravity readings etc., I know to take and write down for future reference.

Sorry OP, if high jack your thread.

looks right...procedure wise
 
.... I just reread this and it confused me and I wrote it........

Clear as mud. LOL! :ban:


I had to read it about 4 times, but it does make sense to me now fwiw. It sounds like I'm also going to need to know how much strike water I'll lose after mashing the grains so I'll know how much sparge water I need to get back to my 7.5 gallon mark.

Is this the same for BIAB or is BIAB a totally different beast? I take it the goal is the same....sparge until you get to your pre-boil volume.

Thanks Ohiosteve! :tank:
 
yes sparge to your preboil volume...easiest thing is to do a test boil ,or if you don't want to waste gas brew a batch and intentionally leave yourself a little short but have some top off water handy.....measure your boil off so you know how many gallons pre boil that you need........... when you mash in, measure the water in versus the wort out on your first runnings. subtract your first runnings from your preboil then divide by the weight of the grains. there is your absorption and dead space or REALLY close. This way no matter how many pounds of grain you have you can just punch in your absorption rate.. Like I said mine is .13 gallons per pound. so I punch that in and I know how much strike water I lose to the grains so I know how much sparge water I am gonna need.
 
Does anybody have a calcualtion for determining sparge volume for a 50L Braumeister, I had a calculation in by big brewery days bit this does not seem to work with a 50L volume.
 
FWIW, I BIAB and shoot for close to equal runnings from my mash and sparge. I mash somewhere between 1.5 - 2.0qt/lb depending on my grain bill size. I then make up the difference with a single sparge. My runnings are always within 1 gallon of each other. I like to mash thin.... it works for me.
 
Using the 1.5qt/lb of grain rule: What would one do if they had a large grain bill? I see that with this system the sparge volumes will reduce as the grain bill increases? Do you cut the mash volume in order to increase the sparge volume?

For example, using the 1.5 rule, if I have a 14lb bill, then my total sparge volume is only 2 gallons. That seems like a small volume of water. Also, can you batch sparge with that small of a volume?
 
I got this from Denny Conn's website. It works for me.

R1=initial runoff volume which = mash water volume - water absorbed by grain
(assumed to be .1 gal./lb. for this example since that’s the way my system works...use your own figure)

S= batch sparge water volume
V= total boil volume (amount in needed in kettle for boil)
I=volume of infusions for a step mash

R1+I+S(1)+S(2)+S(etc.) must equal V
AND
R1+I=.5V

For example, a 10 lb grain bill I usually mash with 3.25 gal of strike water (between 1.25 and 1.5 qt s per lb). After an hour mash I mash out with 1.25 gal of infusion water (which takes care of dead space and grain absorption). Once vorlaufed and lautered, I batch sparge with 3.25 gal water. This gives me ~6.5 gal of boil volume. I boil off ~1 gal and have ~.5 gal dead space in my kettle so I end up with ~ 5 gal in the fermenter (a bit more for the hydrometer tube if I tip it a bit).

YMMV


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
As long as your pH isn't off, mash thickness isn't that important. Normally 2 qts/lb or less will be fine. Here's what I use to ball park two equal runnings. If it gets too thin, add some of the sparge volume as a mash-out before draining. If your tun is too small divide by three and do three equal runnings.

Post Boil Volume + Boil-off = Pre-Boil Volume
5.5 + 1.5 = 7

Pre-Boil Volume / 2 = Sparge Volume
7 / 2 = 3.5

Grain Absorbsion + Dead Space = Mash Loss
1.75 + .25 = 2

Sparge Volume + Mash Loss = Dough-In Volume
3.5 + 2 = 5.5
 
As long as your pH isn't off, mash thickness isn't that important. Normally 2 qts/lb or less will be fine. Here's what I use to ball park two equal runnings. If it gets too thin, add some of the sparge volume as a mash-out before draining. If your tun is too small divide by three and do three equal runnings.

Post Boil Volume + Boil-off = Pre-Boil Volume
5.5 + 1.5 = 7

Pre-Boil Volume / 2 = Sparge Volume
7 / 2 = 3.5

Grain Absorbsion + Dead Space = Mash Loss
1.75 + .25 = 2

Sparge Volume + Mash Loss = Dough-In Volume
3.5 + 2 = 5.5

What do you mean by Dead space and Dough-In Volume?
 
I don't do any math for this. I run my mash and collect my first runnings. Whatever that gives me i subtract from my boil volume and run my sparge. I'm usually pretty close. I don't generally worry about it because my boil is never consistent anyway. As long as I get at least 6 gallons and my gravities are correct I'm gonna keep going. I'd rather have my recipe go to plan than collect X amount.
 
What do you mean by Dead space and Dough-In Volume?
Dead space is the volume of liquid left in your mash tun that would remain after draining. It's the area below your dip tube. By dough-in volume I was referring to the initial amount of water you'd put in your tun along with the grain.
 
Huh. I thought dead space was another word for the head space in the mash tun or BK? I've found that the head space remaining & the density of the mash govern some of the heat retention ability of that particular mash.
 
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