LME vs. DME

As I read more and more, I've come to realize that many recipes I've seen online (excluding all-grain brews) use either exclusively liquid malt extract, or a combination of liquid malt extract and dry malt extract only as a sugar-substitute.

However, I have not seen any recipes where dry malt extract (DME) is used exclusively. Is it possible to make quality brews using exclusively DME, water, and other grains/adjuncts, or is liquid malt necessary in making a quality brew? The reason I ask is because liquid malt extract is more difficult to store, since I only make 3 gallons at a time.

Furthermore, if DME can be used without LME, how many lbs. of DME is equivalent to a 3.3 lb. can of liquid malt?

LME contains 20% water so 20% more should be use than with DME

One of the main differences is that LME can have hop/hop extract added to make extract recipe "kits"

brewmaster27 said:

Is it possible to make quality brews using exclusively DME, water, and other grains/adjuncts, or is liquid malt necessary in making a quality brew?

Furthermore, if DME can be used without LME, how many lbs. of DME is equivalent to a 3.3 lb. can of liquid malt?

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Yes, you can use DME as your only fermentable sugar.

Substute .8 lbs of DME per pound of LME

This is a great tool for figuring out recipes.

http://hbd.org/recipator/

Not to highjack the thead, but here goes... Damn, Orfy ! How your setup has grown ! The blogsite is really cool. Seems that you,re doing AG now. Seems like just a month or two ago you were making wine in gallon jugs. My hat is off to you. Your package is still awaiting postage. I feel kinda stupid now sending you a fermenter you can't use.

Suds, don't worry about it no probs.
Send the pig sauce some time don't worry about the fermenter.

You guys have helped me make the jump to AG quicktime.

it's very possible to make good beer with DME. All the extract brewing I've done has been solely with DME. I'm partial to Munton's. It's really crucial to make sure no excess moisture has gotten into the packaging, though. (If it has, the DME will be like a rock instead of powder).

The DME is so much easyer to use too. When I use LME I try to get every last drop out of the can, which is not very easy, and i seem to get that crap all over my hands and I always drop some on the way to the garbage can. Its very sticky and I just dont like working with it.

Extremely biased opinion ahead.........

I think for the most part, DME is of superior quality to LME. I think every extract brewer would benefit from abandoning the use of LME totally and go with strictly DME and specialty grains. I think DME stores better/longer, it is a more convenient form to use, you use less of it, and (this is only my opinion) the quality of LME in general just isn't as good.

Don't want to start a war here, I'm sure there are plenty of brewers out there who swear by LME. To everyone, I suggest an experiment: Brew the beer of your choice with LME as the only extract (with grains or whatever). Then, brew the exact same recipe with DME as the only extract (making quanity adjustments to achieve the same OG), then taste these beers side by side. Post results/opinions here.

Prosit!

tnlandsailor said:

I think for the most part, DME is of superior quality to LME.

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How superior is the question. At my LHBS, Munton's DME is $5/lb. Alexander's LME is $2/lb. I generally use DME anyway, and your experiment would be a good one to try, but I just can't imagine it makes enough of a difference to make up for $12 vs $30 for a typical batch.

OtherWhiteMeat said:

The DME is so much easyer to use too. When I use LME I try to get every last drop out of the can, which is not very easy, and i seem to get that crap all over my hands and I always drop some on the way to the garbage can. Its very sticky and I just dont like working with it.

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I haven't used LME in a long time, but I used to put the lid on my kettle while I was heating the water to a boil and rest the LME on that. By the time the water was going to LME was quite pourable. I still made a sticky mess of everything, but that's just me.

Pistolero hit a good point, IMHO. Price is certainly a factor, as is storage. DME stores longer than LME. Other than that, everyone else hit the key points nicely.

I've done LME only, LME+DME, and DME only, with the DME only being the most recent. I don't find any subtantial taste differences that I can trace to the extract version, but perhaps that's just me.

Another way to get all the LME out of it's container is too pour in a cup or two of the hot wort, swirl / shake it around the container and dump back into the wort. It usually dissolves all the sticky extract. Just be sure to use gloves, unless you really like pain!

My personal opinion is that DME is far superior to LME. Looking back through my notes of previous batches, I seem to always rave about the taste of the batches I made with DME more than the ones I made with LME. DME batches make up only about 10% of my batch-history, but those were always the best ones.

In my most recent bacthes, my stout and my IPA are by far the best tasting brews, and those both used DME and grain. Not one drop of LME.

Unfortunately, I bought a 30 lb 'jug' of LME from the LHBS a month or two ago and I'm only part way through it, but as soon as I have finished if off, I think I am no longer going to use LME anymore.

I'll gladly swallow the increased cost since it ends up letting me swallow better beer.

-walker

BeeGee said:

I haven't used LME in a long time, but I used to put the lid on my kettle while I was heating the water to a boil and rest the LME on that. By the time the water was going to LME was quite pourable. I still made a sticky mess of everything, but that's just me.

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Interesting. While I dont use LME much anymore, im going to try that next time. Im like you though, no matter how hard I try, im still going to make some sort of mess. Im a pretty good cook, but the kitchen is a disaster when I make big meals.

Thanks for the input, guys. Actually, as far as the price factor goes, I find that DME and LME are about the same price for me to acquire (considering the fact that LME contains 20% water). A 3 lb. bag of Munton's dry malt only costs me about $11. From now on, I'm just going to use grain and DME for my next few batches, and see how that goes.

El Pistolero said:

How superior is the question. At my LHBS, Munton's DME is $5/lb. Alexander's LME is $2/lb. I generally use DME anyway, and your experiment would be a good one to try, but I just can't imagine it makes enough of a difference to make up for $12 vs $30 for a typical batch.

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I get my DME under $2.50 lb (I buy several 55# boxes at a time) and that includes the postage.

www.midwestsupplies.com

My favorite batches have also been DME, but that only accounts for 10% of my batch history as well. DME is twice the cost as LME at my local HBS.

Of course, I love my LME batches just the same.

LME is better on pancakes.

This weekend I'm going to experiment by making a simple pale ale, using only DME, steeped specialty grains and hops. No LME at all. I'll let you know in 6 weeks how it is!

BeeGee said:

LME is better on pancakes.

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But DME is better on ice cream.

El Pistolero said:

But DME is better on ice cream.

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So, the bottom line is that it depends on what time of day it is.

BeeGee said:

So, the bottom line is that it depends on what time of day it is.

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That's right...pancakes and LME in the evening, ice cream with DME for breakfast (banana optional).

BeeGee said:

LME is better on pancakes.

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That's true.

El Pistolero said:

But DME is better on ice cream.

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...and in chocolate milk...

I sent mail to the owner of the LHBS here in Raleigh to ask about bulk DME since I have decided to brew using only that instead of LME. They sell LME in bulk, but I have not been satisfied with the color at all. I just can't brew a light colored beer with their 'light' LME.

Anyway, he said that they do not sell it in bulk currently but he's been strongly considering it based on customer requests, and would go ahead and allow me to do it (I guess I spend a lot there and they like me.)

Anyway, they have two brands that they will sell me:

(1) British <No name was given>, $159 for 55 lbs (about $2.90/lb)
(2) Briess. No price given in the email, but he said it would be LESS than the British.

Looks like I'll be buying a 55 lb box of the light colored DME in January! (Just need to crank out a couple more batches and get rid of the rest of the LME I bought a while back.)

-walker

I've used both DME and LME and from my experience DME is my favorite, for ease of use and quality. Funny thing, I stopped into my local brew shop and asked for a 3 pound bag of DME(all they had was 1 pound bags) and they told me, "They don't make 3 pound bags of DME." Also, this place has a fridge full of year plus old liquid yeast that they don't mark down or throw out.
But as it stands, DME, all the way.

Wow, nice work dragging up a 7 year old thread! I wonder how much LME has changed in that time? I buy both, LME in 15kg (33lb) plastic growlers and DME in 5kg (11lb) bags. Generally i'll get light LME and wheat LME, with amber DME, as I use less of the amber.

I love resurrected threads!

Until my last two brews, I'd only used DME, either Briess Golden Light, or the M&F equivalent of that. It was fine. (I've seen 1, 3, and 5 pound bags of these out there, incidentally. However the last time I ordered a 3 pound bag from Midwest Supplies, I got three 1-pound bags instead.)

On the last two, I went with LME because a 50% Munich LME was easily available. It was fine. I heated them up in a pot of hot water for 5-10 minutes before pouring them in, then shook some hot wort inside to get the last bits. I was very careful to stir thoroughly before adding heat to avoid scorching, and can't say I saw any signs of it. There are also no signs of off-flavor twangs at least as late in the process as racking for lagering, so I'm skeptical of claims that either LME or DME has an intrinsic advantage over the other.

To me it seems that LME is available in more varied flavors. DME is easier to store and to use in small quantities. Both are a PITA to add to the wort: LME because of the heating/mixing issues, DME because it froths up like crazy and because it turns into crazy glue if you don't dump it in before the steam hits it.

Ohmergerrd! Zombie thread! I usually took DME always over LME when I was doing extract brews. I don't get the extract twang near as bad with DME. It's also easier to use and makes lighter beer.

No extract twang with fresh LME when I was extract. Go with a local or online shop with fast LME turnover and you will be fine (Northern Brewer, Midwest Supplies, AHS, etc). I had an old dusty bottle in my first batch and it was very twangy.

They even have Maris Otter LME now, which is kinda cool. Late additions of half the LME takes care of the wort carmelization, at least in my experience.

solbes said:

No extract twang with fresh LME when I was extract. Go with a local or online shop with fast LME turnover and you will be fine (Northern Brewer, Midwest Supplies, AHS, etc). I had an old dusty bottle in my first batch and it was very twangy.

They even have Maris Otter LME now, which is kinda cool. Late additions of half the LME takes care of the wort carmelization, at least in my experience.

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All my LME came from MidWest or NB. I could taste the twang regardless. Once I went to AG, it went bye bye.

Extract twang only occurs on out of date LME, or where brewers are dumping all their LME in at the start of a partial boil. I exclusively brew with extract, using a rough 80/20 mix of LME v DME, and have done so for years. Never had a beer with an extract twang, 'coz I don't use old LME, and do late extract addition (very late, on flameout) in my boils. What i'm trying to say is it's usually the brewer causing the twang, not the extract! Would an AG brewer use 3 year old grain stored in the sun?

As John Palmer himself says, "Extract Brewing should not be viewed as inferior to brewing with grain, it is merely easier. It takes up less space and uses less equipment. You can brew national competition winning beers using extracts."

Walker said:

I sent mail to the owner of the LHBS here in Raleigh to ask about bulk DME since I have decided to brew using only that instead of LME. They sell LME in bulk, but I have not been satisfied with the color at all. I just can't brew a light colored beer with their 'light' LME.

Anyway, he said that they do not sell it in bulk currently but he's been strongly considering it based on customer requests, and would go ahead and allow me to do it (I guess I spend a lot there and they like me.)

Anyway, they have two brands that they will sell me:

(1) British <No name was given>, $159 for 55 lbs (about $2.90/lb)
(2) Briess. No price given in the email, but he said it would be LESS than the British.

Looks like I'll be buying a 55 lb box of the light colored DME in January! (Just need to crank out a couple more batches and get rid of the rest of the LME I bought a while back.)

-walker

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Are you talking about American brewmaster? I will also request bulk DME sales to help the cause. I would also be interested in splitting a bulk DME order.

I could probably pitch in on half of that order if you don't want to have to keep the whole thing...

DrummerBoySeth said:

Are you talking about American brewmaster? I will also request bulk DME sales to help the cause. I would also be interested in splitting a bulk DME order.

I could probably pitch in on half of that order if you don't want to have to keep the whole thing...

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That post is from several years ago...I'm sure the grain is all used up by now!

allaway said:

That post is from several years ago...I'm sure the grain is all used up by now!

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Good call. Not sure how I missed that date... Oh, well.