First keg...tastes acidic

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hops2it

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Guys I am really getting frustrated. I left the bottling scene behind due to inconsistent batches and was really looking forward to tapping my first keg. So I brewed an American Wheat and slow carbed for 2 weeks, while using the carbonation chart often seen here to input 11-12 psi over that timeframe.

Today is the 2 week mark and the beer tastes acidic/tinny. I really thought this was going to be the turning point for consistency so I am really down right now. I went ahead and reduced the psi to around 4-5 for tapping purposes and have left it there for now. Do you think it'll change over time or am I stuck with this? I followed the advice of "don't fear the bubbles" (starsan) when sanitizing the keg but I'm not so sure because that's pretty much what it's tasting like right now. And that's after running out like 4 glasses of it. :(
 
How did you prepare the keg, and what water do you use for brewing?
 
It was cleaned with pbw and slightly pressurized when I bought it from the LHBS so I rinsed it out with indoor tap water, then used starsan/water and shook it around for several minutes. Then ran that mixture through the lines for several minutes and poured out the rest. I then racked the beer into the keg.

For brewing, I used my indoor tap water. I won't rule out the tap water as the culprit but it's used by many a local brewer here. I've chalked up off flavors in the past as my fermenting at too high a temp so I made a fermentation chamber to alleviate that issue.
 
Oftentimes, acidic or tinny flavors can come from overcarbonation - referred to as a "carbonic bite." 11 or 12 PSI shouldn't be enough to cause that, depending on the temperature you're storing the beer at - but you left that info out. So - what temp are you keeping the beer at?

Around 40F, 11-12 should be pretty much ideal for carbing and serving, given 8-10ft serving lines. Now, if this is what's going on, dropping the pressure back a bit, bleeding off the pressure in the keg, and waiting a few days, should improve things. Also, simply pouring a pint and letting it sit for about 5 minutes or so before drinking it should let it off-gas just enough that the bite should go away. If any of these work, you're probably just slightly over-carbed, and a little tweak of your pressure will likely go a long way.
 
Try brewing your next batch with bottled spring water and see if the taste goes away. In the spring and summer my tap water is less that tasty, and it makes beer that reflects that, so I use spring water (for darker beers I just cut the tap water with 50% R/O) and that immediately took the funky water flavor away.
 
stratslinger said:
Oftentimes, acidic or tinny flavors can come from overcarbonation - referred to as a "carbonic bite." 11 or 12 PSI shouldn't be enough to cause that, depending on the temperature you're storing the beer at - but you left that info out. So - what temp are you keeping the beer at?

Around 40F, 11-12 should be pretty much ideal for carbing and serving, given 8-10ft serving lines. Now, if this is what's going on, dropping the pressure back a bit, bleeding off the pressure in the keg, and waiting a few days, should improve things. Also, simply pouring a pint and letting it sit for about 5 minutes or so before drinking it should let it off-gas just enough that the bite should go away. If any of these work, you're probably just slightly over-carbed, and a little tweak of your pressure will likely go a long way.
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Good point. I tried to shoot for 40 F but my little fridge is a beast, I kept turning down the dial but I know I spent a lot of that 2 weeks at more like 33-34 degrees. And my service line is just a 5 ft picnic tapper, I have to open the fridge to gain access to it, don't have it set up as a keggerator yet. So you think if I turn it down to say 5 lbs for awhile, it may come back with time?
 
NordeastBrewer77 said:
Try brewing your next batch with bottled spring water and see if the taste goes away. In the spring and summer my tap water is less that tasty, and it makes beer that reflects that, so I use spring water (for darker beers I just cut the tap water with 50% R/O) and that immediately took the funky water flavor away.
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I will indeed try this in order to take it out of the equation. Thanks for the idea. And consequently, I work for a water treatment outfit and we have UF and RO units so I can pretty much get whatever I want in that regard.
 
Before you go changing anything in your brewing process, pour a pint, let it sit for 5 minutes, and see if the acidic character is still there. It's definitely sounding like you could be a little overcarbed, and changing things about your brewing may be completely unnecessary.

With that picnic tap, yeah, I can see dropping to 4 or 5 PSI to serve. But keep in mind, if you leave it at 4 or 5 PSI, your beer will lose carbonation over time. It will not carbonate up to whatever PSI you carbonated it at and then just hang onto that amount of gas of its own volition. If the pressure in the system drops, the beer will off-gas until it reaches equilibrium. So, be prepared to drop pressure to serve, then increase pressure again to maintain carbonation. That, or invest in longer lines and save yourself the aggravation.
 
With R/O, distilled, etc., you'll want to add minerals, or use it to cut tap or spring water.... by themselves 'purified' waters aren't always the best thing for brewing. Spring water, however, makes really nice beer IMO. Either way, your job gives you some great access and probably some good info about water. Another thing you could do is try to get a water report from the city you live in, it can be very helpful especially if you want to start making water from different brewing regions. Here, we get a yearly water report mailed out with the utilities bill every spring, lets ya know the mineral and additive concentrations, pollutants, turbidity, etc. It's also posted on the city's website. Very useful information to have.
 
the taste you describe sounds like carbonic acid to me. i had a similar problem at first due to force carbing at high pressures for too long. i'm not quite sure how your pressures could over carbonate your beer though?
 
stratslinger said:
Before you go changing anything in your brewing process, pour a pint, let it sit for 5 minutes, and see if the acidic character is still there. It's definitely sounding like you could be a little overcarbed, and changing things about your brewing may be completely unnecessary.

With that picnic tap, yeah, I can see dropping to 4 or 5 PSI to serve. But keep in mind, if you leave it at 4 or 5 PSI, your beer will lose carbonation over time. It will not carbonate up to whatever PSI you carbonated it at and then just hang onto that amount of gas of its own volition. If the pressure in the system drops, the beer will off-gas until it reaches equilibrium. So, be prepared to drop pressure to serve, then increase pressure again to maintain carbonation. That, or invest in longer lines and save yourself the aggravation.
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Ok I let it set for 5 minutes, then 10 and it was a little better. I then went and mowed my yard, left open glass in fridge and just now tried it again. It's slightly better yet. I would say the up front tinny bite is pretty much gone but it still tastes a little acidic and kinda watered down really, it just rather lacks character. Far rom the nectar I was hoping for.

Whatever, I just turned the co2 down to 8 psi and I'm going to leave it there and hope it improves with time. This hobby is a lot of fun in many ways but it can be quite frustrating. And so far, I'm not getting beer that is comparible, let alone better, than what I can buy in the store.
 
At the pressure and the way you carbed, I'm hard pressed to see how you could've overcarbed that brew. Not saying it's impossible, but I serve my kegs at 12 psi and leave them on that pressure for weeks, sometimes longer and I'm not getting overcarbed beer.
The water in the midwest in springtime can be downright funky, and if you're close to a river system of any sort it can vary a lot at this time of year. Right now my tap water (Mpls city, Mississippi River) has a tannish haze from the turbidity and soil runoff... it tastes and smells like the river. Come fall, it may be the best water I've ever tasted.
If you're getting this batch in and batch out, and it is in bottles and kegs, try adjusting one thing at a time. I'd suggest brewing water to start. If the water change doesn't fix it, review your process and see if there's something else that might be causing this. Then change that. Keep troubleshooting and you'll figure it out. :mug:
 
@Nordeast,
How much do you pay for spring water? I'm down with trying it but it seems like it'd add a significant expense if used on a regular basis. Maybe it's cheaper than I realize though.
 
hops2it said:
@Nordeast,
How much do you pay for spring water? I'm down with trying it but it seems like it'd add a significant expense if used on a regular basis. Maybe it's cheaper than I realize though.
Click to expand...

It is cheaper than your probably think.

There is a place just down the road from me that sells 5 gallons of water for like $3. I usually get a 5 gallon and 1 gallon container. I then top off the rest with tap water if needed.

Not sure what its like around you so you might have to shop around a bit.
 
I've been keging now for 5 years and i do it one of two ways, Either let it sit at 30 psi for two days or cold crash the beer for a few days then put it on gas shake the crap out of it for 10 to 15 min. and i get great results both ways. Are you all grain or extract brewing, also what yeast did you use, have you made this beer before. Everyone here had great suggestions but there is more here to be asked.
 
Are you using hot tap water? Apparently hot water heaters leave all kinds of funky deposits in your water.
 
stalewater said:
Are you all grain or extract brewing, also what yeast did you use, have you made this beer before. Everyone here had great suggestions but there is more here to be asked.
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This was a True Brew American Wheat kit. I steeped in a little carapils for some mouthfeel but I have brewed this before with and without the carapils addition and it's been tasty. I do both extract and FG depending on my schedule at the time. I'm honestly unsure what yeast they provided but I'd hope it was selected with the beer classification in mind. It didn't say what it was on the packet, they made it look more like it was an in house product even though I'm sure it was made by one of the usual suspects.

@Fid,
I just used regular, cool tap water.

I did make one mistake on this brew that may explain the blah taste. I ended up with more water than I should have. I did a full boil and overestimated the boiloff so I ended up with about 5.5 gallons for a 5 gallon recipe. I just figured it would reduce my abv but maybe it changed the flavor profile more than I thought it would idk. Still doesn't explain the acidic taste though. I welcome more ideas and I will also be updating this thread over the next few weeks. I'm hoping some more time and a lower carb level might help although I'm not super optimistic it's going to turn around a great deal.
 
hops2it said:
Well, that's a spot of good news. I didn't realize it was that inexpensive.
Click to expand...

Another option would be to filter or pre boil your tap water, or both. That'll get rid of most of the additives that municipalities put in the water, which could be the cause of your 'off' flavor.
Out of curiosity, what is the source of tap water in your area?
 
NordeastBrewer77 said:
Another option would be to filter or pre boil your tap water, or both. That'll get rid of most of the additives that municipalities put in the water, which could be the cause of your 'off' flavor.
Out of curiosity, what is the source of tap water in your area?
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The water I get is groundwater under the influence of surface water...radial collector wells to be exact so there's ground filtration. Turbidity is quite low therefore in our raw water. The thing that bugs me about the water thing is that I've read in several places, mabye even Palmer not sure, that if water tastes good, it's generally good for brewing. And our water tastes good year round. We lime soften and use activated carbon. A few years ago, our water got either 1st or 2nd for best tasting water in the country per Forbes. :confused:
 
Hmmm.... I think it was Palmer who said that, and I've always found that to be the case. The carbon should take care if the chlorine. Maybe try pre boiling, I always do that when I use tap water.
The thing with using spring (or another non tap source) for your next batch is that if the flavor goes away, you can safely pin it on the water. If it doesn't, on to the next idea. But switching water for the next batch'll answer the question, and I've never been let down by using spring water yet.
 
Just so you guys don't think I'm nuts, here's the article:

http://www.forbes.com/2008/04/14/water-cities-drinking-forbeslife-cx_avd_0414health.html

DSM is #1 on their list. Ugg. Anyway, I'll try the spring water thing, never know there could be something else about our water profile that doesn't set well with homebrewing. Just got back from the store and they just had spring water in 1 gallon jugs at $1.09 each. I'll look around and try to find a little better deal but I guess adding that cost wouldn't be the end of the world if it results in consistently quality beer.
 
I would like to also ask for recipe opinions because maybe my choices just haven't been ideal. I have brewed several True Brew Kits and they were all pretty decent just slightly bland/generic tasting. I have also tried a handful of the recipes listed here at HBT.

So can anybody recommend a tried and true homerun recipe for my next attempt? Can either be AG or extract, I can convert if necessary. I like everything from ales to stouts to ipa's and everything in between but the wife is more of a lighter to medium bodied beer that is still Americanesque but has significantly more flavor and character than BMC. And I would REALLY like to get a good one under my belt so she'll quit complaining that I'm wasting time and money. :D

Some beers she likes for reference are Boulevard Wheat, Dead Guy Ale, Sam Adams Light. She hates anything with banana estery tastes, clove taste, etc. She doesn't like Pale Ales and I'm not the biggest fan either. So any thoughts with that in mind. I need to nail this next one guys.
 
Hey guys just weighing in here... IMHO there is no reason to think that raw (or hard) water would be, in any ratio, a good thing for brewing. I have done several testings with raw vs. R/O water as I used to be a distributor for water purification systems... the tap water by itself may taste fine but it's the reaction with the hardness and dissolved solids in the tap water with any dissolvable substance (like grains/malt extracts) which can greatly effect the desired flavor... why have anything but the truest flavor of your barley beverage which treated water can provide... A simple and great visual test that I have demonstrated many times for buyers (when I was a distributor) was this: Simply make some orange pekoe tea .. One cup with tap water and one with R/O or distilled water... Notice not only the obvious visual difference but the flavor as well. This is a great demonstration to keep in mind when considering your brewing because it is the same concept. Again this is one mans voice and to each his own... Just my 2 cents! Cheers
 
Canadianbrewer2012 said:
Hey guys just weighing in here... IMHO there is no reason to think that raw (or hard) water would be, in any ratio, a good thing for brewing. I have done several testings with raw vs. R/O water as I used to be a distributor for water purification systems... the tap water by itself may taste fine but it's the reaction with the hardness and dissolved solids in the tap water with any dissolvable substance (like grains/malt extracts) which can greatly effect the desired flavor... why have anything but the truest flavor of your barley beverage which treated water can provide... A simple and great visual test that I have demonstrated many times for buyers (when I was a distributor) was this: Simply make some orange pekoe tea .. One cup with tap water and one with R/O or distilled water... Notice not only the obvious visual difference but the flavor as well. This is a great demonstration to keep in mind when considering your brewing because it is the same concept. Again this is one mans voice and to each his own... Just my 2 cents! Cheers
Click to expand...

Interesting, I always heard that a certain balance of minerals were good for brewing and that straight RO water shouldn't be used? If I can use all RO water then score because I can get all I want for free or the market across the street sells it for 39 cents/gallon. :rockin:
 
If you like stouts i would try an oatmeal stout my house oatmeal stout is all grain and is always a hit with the ladys and all my friends. Here is the receipe
9.00 lbs 2row us
0.75 lbs of chocolate malt
0.75 lbs of roasted barley
1.00 lbs flaked oats
1.00 oz fuggle or williamette 60 min
I use to use wyeast 1084 irish ale but ithink it makes it a little dry I like my stouts a little sweeter so now I use london ale any verison
single infusion mash 154 for 60 to 90 min. what ever works for your system, sparge as usual. Ferment for three weeks in primary then bottle or keg (i know you are having trouble with kegging another suggestion no one seems to be saying is try using 1/4 cup of priming sugar then let sit for two weeks at room temp, first two or three pours are a little chunky but it always worked for me. Dont get discouraged once you find a system that works for you, you can make great commerical quality beer. Thats my two cents
 
Canadianbrewer2012 said:
Hey guys just weighing in here... IMHO there is no reason to think that raw (or hard) water would be, in any ratio, a good thing for brewing. I have done several testings with raw vs. R/O water as I used to be a distributor for water purification systems... the tap water by itself may taste fine but it's the reaction with the hardness and dissolved solids in the tap water with any dissolvable substance (like grains/malt extracts) which can greatly effect the desired flavor... why have anything but the truest flavor of your barley beverage which treated water can provide... A simple and great visual test that I have demonstrated many times for buyers (when I was a distributor) was this: Simply make some orange pekoe tea .. One cup with tap water and one with R/O or distilled water... Notice not only the obvious visual difference but the flavor as well. This is a great demonstration to keep in mind when considering your brewing because it is the same concept. Again this is one mans voice and to each his own... Just my 2 cents! Cheers
Click to expand...

It's an interesting point - but particularly if you're doing all grain, there's a world of difference between making tea and mashing grain when it comes to the mineral content of water. Tea made in RO water may be great. But mash in RO water, at least RO water that you don't properly build back up again with a proper mineral content, and you're not going to be at all pleased with the outcome. The enzymes in the mash need a certain level of mineral content to help them do what they do...

And as far as saying that there's no reason to think that hard water would be a good thing for brewing? There are very large portions of Europe that are famous for their beers (areas of England spring immediately to mind) specifically because of the hardness of the water they start off with. There's a reason that many extract kits for English brown ales, for instance, come with little packets of gypsum! ;)
 
It just doesn't make any sense to me... I can see a certain amount of a type of rock mineral being beneficial but what a municipality does to water by the time it reaches our tap is not what I want in my beer... the rock in your tap water does not account for all of it's hardness .. In my opinion why invite numerous unwanted minerals for one desired...just add it yourself to a pure water
 
hops2it said:
So can anybody recommend a tried and true homerun recipe for my next attempt? .
Click to expand...

Why not brew a nice, light pale ale for summer? Or a blonde ale? Something like that may be a good middle ground for you and your wife. The two recipes that come to mind are EdWort's Haus Pale Ale (I think there's extract and AG versions) or BierMuncher's Centennial Blonde. Both are very popular beers. There's also tons of other solid recipes in the recipe forum here on HBT. If you want some help coming up with a recipe of your own, drop me a PM, I enjoy writing beer recipes a lot. :mug:
 
Is the CO2 food grade? I used regular CO2 for some time and got the acidic tin flavor. It was barely noticeable on a fresh tank, but as it got closer to being empty the off-flavor got worse.

I tried all kinda things to get rid of it. Heck, I started re-filling early to avoid the worst of the off-flavor. Finally this cheap bastard paid the extra bucks to see if food grade CO2 made any difference. It did the trick. Since I made the switch I've gone through maybe 10 kegs and have yet to have one beer that came out acidic.

I've read where lots of brewers use non-food grade CO2 without the acidic off-flavor. Perhaps some sources have gunk in it and others do not... I don't know. I do know that food grade CO2 fixed the problem for me.
 

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