Yeast for ESB

I am brewing up an ESB quite soon:

10# pale two row
1.25 pound cara munich
.38 pound carpils
1 oz willamette at 60
1 oz cascade at 15
1oz willamete at 5
1 oz cascade at 1
roughly 30 IBU

kind a redhookish...thing..no tettnang but should still be tasty.


I am wondering about the yeast, I have had terrible luck with S-04, I avoid it like the plague.

Do you think that nottingham ale yeast would be suitable?

NOtty will probably dry it out too much. But with the cascade hops you aren't quite in the english style. If you want body and esters use an english yeast

Ichthy said:

NOtty will probably dry it out too much. But with the cascade hops you aren't quite in the english style. If you want body and esters use an english yeast

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I wonder if I could make up for the attenuation by mashing at 156-158 or so?

I know the hops are American, American Special Bitter we'll call it.

I have some US-05 as well....slightly less attenuative than notty maybe? I suppose I could give S-04 another try and see what happens too.

If you don't mind liquid, I just had great luck with Wyeast 1968 London ESB (Fuller's Strain). Great flavor and really quick to ferment out and drop clear.

1968 looks like a great yeast for an ESB. I always thought that nottingham was english yeast...shows what I know.

I wonder if there are any comercial ESB examples I could harvest yeast from? Maybe Redhook?

I really like it. London Ale yeast.

Redhook is closest, if not exactly, like WLP041 pacific ale. Notty is not fruity enough to give you a redhook like profile or a profile appropriate for an esb. WLP023 Burton, WLP005, and WLP002 are perfect for ESB's too.

I'd use 05. I've done the Redhook type clone with 04 and did not like it even though everyone else seemed to suck it down. One of the well known clone recipes books specs 1056 for the Redhook clone.

permo said:

I wonder if I could make up for the attenuation by mashing at 156-158 or so?

I know the hops are American, American Special Bitter we'll call it.

I have some US-05 as well....slightly less attenuative than notty maybe? I suppose I could give S-04 another try and see what happens too.

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I've mashed pretty high and used Notty and it still chews through everything and I usually end up at 1.008. I've actually had similar problems with S04, it attenuates maybe a little too well. However, it does add the esters - a good thing.

I haven't tried all the liquids everyone else recommends, but I will be for the next round of English beers I make.

Oldsock said:

If you don't mind liquid, I just had great luck with Wyeast 1968 London ESB (Fuller's Strain). Great flavor and really quick to ferment out and drop clear.

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Sock

How much attenuation did you get out of that strain? Could provide OG and SG.
THanks

I've used S-04 and it came out great.

Every English-style beer I've brewed with Wyeast 1968 London ESB has been awesome. My ESB keg kicked in a week - granted, I had some friends over to help me kick a different keg so I could clear space for a pale ale, but whatever, the ESB was super tasty. The 1968 also works great in a mild, if you're into that kind of thing.

Kinda jumping on the bandwagon here, but 1968 was the first yeast that came to mind when I saw you were making an ESB. I also like 1275, its cleaner and more attenuative but still makes a great English beer. Those two strains are my favorite ale yeasts.

I haven't brewed it yet (it's on my doorstep) but the AHS Platinum ESB comes with a White Labs Australian Ale Yeast (WLP009)

I'll let you know if it's any good in a month or two

I'll chime in for 1098 while I'm here. I've had GREAT success with it in my ESBs.

My personal favorite is wyeast 1099. It's a really balanced yeast which help the gentle English hops shine through, but also leaves enough sweetness for a nice full beer. The esters are remeniscent of stone fruit but are subtle enough to not overpower.

+1 on the 1968 I just brewed a EPA and and ESB with it and both are outstanding.
IMO if you mash short like 45 min and mash high 156-158 the notty shouldn't dry it out too much. Otherwise if you want to go redhookesque you should be using an american yeast, your hop schedule would say go us-05 or 1056 but I bet 1272 would be great there too.

My $0.02

Ichthy said:

Sock

How much attenuation did you get out of that strain? Could provide OG and SG.
THanks

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1.054 to 1.015 (~72% AA). 6% Crystal, mashed at 154. I also did a Munich based porter with the yeast cake, but I haven't taken the final gravity yet.

My post was redundant. I couldn't figure out how to delete.

Oldsock said:

1.054 to 1.015 (~72% AA). 6% Crystal, mashed at 154. I also did a Munich based porter with the yeast cake, but I haven't taken the final gravity yet.

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Thanks for the info. I've been using Notty and S04 and have been seeing 80%+ AA. I need some maltiness in my ESBs!

I brewed up something close to this with Willamette and fuggles. I used 1098 and had good results. It is carbing up now but tastes great.

I used s-04 mashing at 157ish and it was great in the ESB. Needs a good time to condition though

nicadrick said:

I really like it. London Ale yeast.

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Actually Fuller's own yeast to be more specific. So, if your intention is to make a beer like the style is named after, go with the 1968... it was a very good year..

I like WLP002 in my English beers, it's a very good yeast.

Beernip said:

I brewed up something close to this with Willamette and fuggles. I used 1098 and had good results. It is carbing up now but tastes great.

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So I actually bought beer today.... thought about buying Bombadier but settled on drinking four pint bottles of Samuel Smith, which happens be, next to Shipyard probably the best bottled beer around -- gross. I hate being between batches... it nearly never happens. Haha. I want my homebrew. The Stingo wasn't bad -- oak aged for a year but carried a hefty $13 price tag (overall not worth it).

I have drunk dozens and dozens of this stuff... so I'm not knocking it but the homemade stuff really is way, way better.

For the record the WLP037 yeast has the exact same twang as this stuff. I think I might be a fan of WLP006. It is a lot more subtle.

Is there a good commercial example to harvest some good english yeast for an ESB from?

permo said:

Is there a good commercial example to harvest some good english yeast for an ESB from?

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Why would you want to do that? Pretty much all commercial yeast offerings comme from wyeast and white labs commes from authentic English breweries. I'd visit their websites and see all of their offerings.

mithion said:

Why would you want to do that? Pretty much all commercial yeast offerings comme from wyeast and white labs commes from authentic English breweries. I'd visit their websites and see all of their offerings.

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Well, I don't have a LHBS that carries wyeast of white labs within 50 miles of me. So it is at least $12 to get yeast shipped to me. I figure I might as well just pay the same and get beer and yeast!

That's a good point. However, I don't know if the English bottle carbonate their beers. They usually like their beers sparkling clear so I wouldn't be surprised if they filter them and force carbonate. That would make harvesting yeast impossible. You may want to start exploring yeast washing. I make 5 batches of beers with one pack of yeast. Some people will brew many more than that. That would be a way to mitigate the high cost of ordering yeast online. Besides, if there's any yeast left in the bottle, it may not be the healthiest. And you should buy commercial beers for R&D purposes whether you want to collect yeast or not right?

The only naturally conditioned English beers I've seen in the US are Samuel Smiths. I made a starter from one of their beers about 25 years ago, and it was not very good. That's not to say that it was the yeast's fault. It was probably my fault, or stale ingredients.

-a.

permo said:

Well, I don't have a LHBS that carries wyeast of white labs within 50 miles of me. So it is at least $12 to get yeast shipped to me. I figure I might as well just pay the same and get beer and yeast!

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All the sources for many of the English yeast strains offered by white and wyeast I can think of, filter their beer. English ales, by style, should be really clear and the filtering helps with that. So i think you're SOL on that one. If you know the profile you're after, I'd just spring for the $12. You can use these strains over and over without buying another pack or vial. Check out this link, it shows the wyeast and white lab #'s an the commercial beers they came from. http://www.mrmalty.com/yeast.htm

I did some research and if I decide to order yeast I am leaning towards WLP002, I am a big yeast washer and harvester so it would really be a good investment. I know you can harvest yeast from redhook, I wonder if their ESB yeast is any good?

permo said:

I did some research and if I decide to order yeast I am leaning towards WLP002, I am a big yeast washer and harvester so it would really be a good investment. I know you can harvest yeast from redhook, I wonder if their ESB yeast is any good?

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I'm pretty sure you'll end up with an american strain. I love redhook but I am quite confident that they make an "American" ESB.

permo said:

I did some research and if I decide to order yeast I am leaning towards WLP002, I am a big yeast washer and harvester so it would really be a good investment. I know you can harvest yeast from redhook, I wonder if their ESB yeast is any good?

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To answer your original question: I found that the pint bottles of Charles Wells has yeast on the bottom. In fact a whole slue of pint bottles in the imported selection has sediment.

I'll hold the bottle up to the light and turn it upside down and look for cloudy movement. As far as Sam Smiths... those have sediment I can tell you that. I can also tell you that the WLP037 yeast seems to me to be the exact same yeast. The rumour is that it is in fact the same, but emperical evidence helps out.


With the White Labs vials it is easy to propagate your yeast in order to saves some money. 200ml jars (or about 8 oz) work well for making mini-starters. I usually use the jam jars I get from the Trappist priests around here. As a bonus of buying a jar its hands down the best product of its type around.

After sanitizing them thoroughly. I'll fill each jar with some boiled extra-light extract at about 1.040SG and steam them. And, let them cool to room temp or their own before adding a little bit of the vial of yeast to each jar. I let those ferment out and toss them in the fridge. After they have settled out, I pour off like 80% of the beer, swirl the remnants in the jar and pitch it. The 200ml jar is just about dead nuts on for a typical gravity 5-gallon batch of beer. Or, so I was told by a commercial brewer.

I am maintaining four English yeasts at the moment and will be expanding into Belgian ale yeast territory soon. My only caution for this system that I have recieve is if propagating bacterial strains for fermentation it is best to use an entirely different set of jars and even a different fridge.

StAnthonyB said:

To answer your original question: I found that the pint bottles of Charles Wells has yeast on the bottom. In fact a whole slue of pint bottles in the imported selection has sediment.

I'll hold the bottle up to the light and turn it upside down and look for cloudy movement. As far as Sam Smiths... those have sediment I can tell you that. I can also tell you that the WLP037 yeast seems to me to be the exact same yeast. The rumour is that it is in fact the same, but emperical evidence helps out.


With the White Labs vials it is easy to propagate your yeast in order to saves some money. 200ml jars (or about 8 oz) work well for making mini-starters. I usually use the jam jars I get from the Trappist priests around here. As a bonus of buying a jar its hands down the best product of its type around.

After sanitizing them thoroughly. I'll fill each jar with some boiled extra-light extract at about 1.040SG and steam them. And, let them cool to room temp or their own before adding a little bit of the vial of yeast to each jar. I let those ferment out and toss them in the fridge. After they have settled out, I pour off like 80% of the beer, swirl the remnants in the jar and pitch it. The 200ml jar is just about dead nuts on for a typical gravity 5-gallon batch of beer. Or, so I was told by a commercial brewer.

I am maintaining four English yeasts at the moment and will be expanding into Belgian ale yeast territory soon. My only caution for this system that I have recieve is if propagating bacterial strains for fermentation it is best to use an entirely different set of jars and even a different fridge.

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I also maintain numerous washed yeast strains in house, WLP029 Kolsch from white labs, nottingham ale yeast from danstar, US-05 from Safeale, rogue pacman harvested from a bottle, and chimay harvested from a bottle.

I am really starting to think I might just throw US-05 or Pacman in it and call it APA........i bet it would be tasty.

Part of me wants to throw WLP029 kolsh in it, ferment it cool and lager it for a while......americanized aletoberfest.....

BTW...an 8 oz starter seems mighty small... I just pitched a 128 oz (1 gallon) starter into a 1.068 IPA....mr malty said a 4 litre starter was in order..

http://www.brewmasterswarehouse.com/ has $6.99 flat shipping for all orders in the lower 48. Better than $12...

johnnyc said:

http://www.brewmasterswarehouse.com/ has $6.99 flat shipping for all orders in the lower 48. Better than $12...

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when I went to school $5.99 (cost of yeast) + $6.99( shipping) was not less then twelve dollars.

Let me buck the trend here and recommend WLP005, which someone else mentioned. The WLP002 is also the Fuller's strain, and the 005 is a bit more attenuative. I like my ESB's malty but a little dry- I love the Fuller's ESB, but find it to be a bit rich for an everyday quaffer, which is what I want from an ESB. Again, just my preference, but I made a batch with the 005, and it's got great English character and nice maltiness coming through, and enough sweetness to balance things out without making the beer qualify as sweet. I was in England a couple of months ago, and brewed this beer to try and capture some of what I loved about the beers there. Nailed it.

I'd use the WLP002/Wyeast1968 (they're the same thing) if you want a sweeter, slightly maltier ESB like Fuller's and the WLP005/Wyeast1187 (also the same, according to this chart) for a slightly drier, less malty but still malt-leaning beer.

Liquid will add expense to your brew, but for English beers, I don't think there's an adequate dry substitute, and I've tried them all. Just to name a few: S-04 is too attenuative and occasionally throws off-flavors when I use it. Windsor is a pain to use, and seems prone to stuck fermentations. Nottingham is my go-to for clean American styles, and has more English character if you ferment warmer, but will ferment everything out, leaving you with a drier beer than you want for an ESB. Again, just my opinions..

permo said:

when I went to school $5.99 (cost of yeast) + $6.99( shipping) was not less then twelve dollars.

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Sorry I misunderstood, thought you were pricing shipping at $12. Whoops.