IPA recipe Belma/Citra/Columbus for flavor add.

Please critique my hopping schedule for the IPA I am brewing Saturday.

It will be a 10 gallon batch. I am splitting it into two 5 gallon batches, and plan to DH primarily with Belma in one and with Citra in the other. I am also going to use two different Yeasts, WLP 001 and WLP 007 (I am still deciding what I want to use as my go to yeast. I like 007 because of the flocculation and I haven't noticed a huge difference in flavor or attenuation between the two.

Here is the recipe:

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 13.81 gal
Post Boil Volume: 12.48 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 11.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 11.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.069 SG
Estimated Color: 6.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 66.2 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 79.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 86.2 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
23 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Ale Malt 2-Row (Briess) (3.5 SRM) Grain 1 89.8 %
1 lbs 5.3 oz Munich (Dingemans) (5.5 SRM) Grain 2 5.1 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 3 3.8 %
5.3 oz Caramel Malt - 40L (Briess) (40.0 SRM) Grain 4 1.3 %
28.00 g Cascade [5.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 5 9.7 IBUs
28.00 g Bravo [14.20 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 27.4 IBUs
14.00 g Bravo [14.20 %] - Boil 45.0 min Hop 7 12.3 IBUs
14.00 g Belma [12.10 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 8 5.4 IBUs
14.00 g Columbus (Tomahawk) [15.80 %] - Boil 15. Hop 9 4.1 IBUs
14.00 g Belma [12.10 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 10 2.1 IBUs
14.00 g Citra [14.88 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 11 2.6 IBUs
14.00 g Columbus (Tomahawk) [15.80 %] - Boil 5.0 Hop 12 2.5 IBUs
28.00 g Citra [14.88 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [35. Yeast 14 -
1.0 pkg Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) [35 Yeast 15 -
28.00 g Citra [14.88 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 16 0.0 IBUs


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 26 lbs 2.6 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 39.36 qt of water at 165.5 F 151.0 F 90 min

Sparge: Batch sparge with 3 steps (Drain mash tun, , 3.57gal, 3.57gal) of 168.0 F water

Here is the water profile:

Ca 112
Mg 18
Na 16
SO4 256
Cl 51
CaCo3 58
Alk 48
RA -43
SO4:Cl 5.0

Any input, constructive critique, or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

I've never understand what 45 minute and 30 minute additions are supposed to do beyond add an inconsistent amount of bittering. I also don't really like the idea of adding multiple yeasts because you don't have the ability to micro-manage the cell counts so you can obtain inconsistent or unpredictable results based on the cell counts and which strain dominates. This works for White Labs in their Cali Ale Yeast V because they CAN do so, but at home we can't really do that.

Also, as an added pointless "criticism" your hop additions are metric but your water additions are customary US units.

I just did a very similar idea, with Belma & Citra included, and two diff. yeasts. If you want that balance of solid performer and high floc., I'd go with WLP090 San Diego Super. Very clean and similar to WLP001, but I've noticed it flocs better. I frequently hit 82-85% attenuation with it.

Recipe looks decent enough; add some corn sugar. I don't use grams to determine hop amounts though so I wish I could be helpful on the hop amounts. I'd probably keep the Belma between 30-15 (or better yet 30-20). I did not particularly care for what Belma offered in an American IPA mostly aromawise. Very fruity, but in a weird way with added spicy grass. Focus on Citra and Columbus late.

I think I saw a similiar post by you in another thread and I commented how a bit of Calcium Chloride might be in order.

bobbrews said:

I just did a very similar idea, with Belma & Citra included, and two diff. yeasts. If you want that balance of solid performer and high floc., I'd go with WLP090 San Diego Super. Very clean and similar to WLP001, but I've noticed it flocs better. I frequently hit 82-85% attenuation with it.

Recipe looks decent enough; add some corn sugar. I don't use grams to determine hop amounts though so I wish I could be helpful on the hop amounts. I'd probably keep the Belma between 30-15 (or better yet 30-20). I did not particularly care for what Belma offered in an American IPA mostly aromawise. Very fruity, but in a weird way with added spicy grass. Focus on Citra and Columbus late.

I think I saw a similiar post by you in another thread and I commented how a bit of Calcium Chloride might be in order.

Click to expand...

7 grams = .25 oz
14 grams = .50 oz, and so on.

The water profile is basically Mosher's Pale Ale, but with the SO4 scaled back from 350. The SO4:Cl ratio is toward the bitter end of the scale and should help to accentuate bitterness and hop flavor, hopefully.

As for the sugar addition, I am going to mash low, 149 and I'll lose a degree or so over the 90 minute mash, so fermentability should be high enough for the WLP 001 & 007 to attenuate fully, I'd estimate this to finish out around 1012, maybe lower if I bump temps up toward the end. I have my gravity and estimated ABV where I want, and I am a proponent of all malt beers (with the exception of Belgians).

Flocculation is the one gripe I have about WLP001 but I have ferm control, so I can cold crash it before secondary dry hopping, and again after dry hopping. Hopefully that will give ne a nice bright beer. I don't know if your familiar with WLP 007,but it flocs like a rock, and in all honesty I haven't noticed a huge difference in flavor profiles, although I usually ferment toward the lower range of the optimal temp for the yeast, then raise it after the bulk of primary fermentation is complete to grab that extra couple points.

Thanks for the advice on the Belma, I have read a lot of mixed reviews. I haven't opened the bag yet, so I have yet to take a sniff for myself (i need to get some 1/2 gallon ball jars so I can vacuum seal the unused portion)

Out of curiosity, did you use pellet or leaf Belma?

Still, the Sulfate to Chloride ratio is quite high. I have no issues with bitterness and I do 2:1 ratio....I rarely exceed 200 ppm on the Sulfate. I've heard others go with 350 ppm Sulfate, but they typically stop at that number. IDK, much of this is a preference thing, but there is a limit.

I used leaf Belma. But it tastes somewhat different in the final beer than it smells directly from the bag. In the beer, it tastes fruity/spicy/grassy... a sort of combo of grassy, spicy Noble hops and fruity American hops. From the bag, Belma smells like a less tropical, weak version of Citra, yet still intriguing with added orange zest/pineapple notes.

You'll want more late hops for an 11 gallon batch of 1.069 OG IPA. A 1 oz. whirlpool and 1 oz. dryhop is quite weak. I would maybe quadruple these amounts. Shift all boil Citra/Columbus additions to 10 min, and the boil Belma additions to 20 min. You could move the Cascade at FWH to current 1 oz. dryhop for better results, and then add at least another 3 oz. to the dryhop of whatever you have left.

Your water profile is fine as is. It is close to Tasty's APA water profile which is 350ppm SO4 & 50 Cl. I won't brew another hoppy beer without a similar sulfate/chloride ratio as it really makes a huge difference.

bobbrews said:

You'll want more late hops for an 11 gallon batch of 1.069 OG IPA. A 1 oz. whirlpool and 1 oz. dryhop is quite weak. I would maybe quadruple these amounts. Shift all boil Citra/Columbus additions to 10 min, and the boil Belma additions to 20 min. You could move the Cascade at FWH to current 1 oz. dryhop for better results, and then add at least another 3 oz. to the dryhop of whatever you have left.

Click to expand...

I apologize for the amount confusion. Since this will be split into two 5 gallon batches, The DH would be per batch.

Also the Cascade is well over a year old, and some of it has been in a simple ziplock without a vaccum, the rest maybe 1.5-1.75 oz has been in a vacuum sealed container.

mooshimanx said:

I've never understand what 45 minute and 30 minute additions are supposed to do beyond add an inconsistent amount of bittering. I also don't really like the idea of adding multiple yeasts because you don't have the ability to micro-manage the cell counts so you can obtain inconsistent or unpredictable results based on the cell counts and which strain dominates. This works for White Labs in their Cali Ale Yeast V because they CAN do so, but at home we can't really do that.

Also, as an added pointless "criticism" your hop additions are metric but your water additions are customary US units.

Click to expand...

Alright, I have to respond to your relatively useless information.

Many craft beers are continuously hopped 30-45 minute additinos offer some bittering and impart some amount of flavor to the beer (probably more bitter from the 45 and some bittering and flavor from the 30 additions)

The multiple yeasts will be split between two batches, not used together in the same fermenter. Reread the post rather than skimming it over and making an assumption and posting useless information that has nothing to do with my original question.

And, for your pointless "criticism", it is just that. What does it matter if hop additions are metric?!?! Anyone with half a brain knows that 3.5g = 1/8 oz, 7g = 1/4oz, 14g = 1/2 oz, 21g = 3/4oz, and 28g = 1 oz. I am calculating by IBUs (IBU:SG)

Next time you think about posting a response (ie. nonsense):
1. think about what the person is asking
2. if you have nothing to contribute
a. go back to #1
b. don't post
3. if you have to say pointless about information you posting, don't post it (see #2)
4. read the original post and the posts that follow to understand the evolution of the conversation so if, and that's a big if, you do have something to contribute (see #1) you can actually provide some constructive feedback.
5. Realize that there are brewers here seeking advice from more knowledgeable brewers, AND that the people you are replying to may have more experience and knowledge than you regardless of the question being asked. (Advice is just that advice, I fail to see any suggestions, advice or constructive criticism anywhere in your post.)
6. Your post pisses me off because you aren't contributing you are complaining.
7. This is my thread. Be creative, suggestive and have something to offer or GTFO!

Thanks for nothing.

Cheers!

Schnitzengiggle said:

Alright, I have to respond to your relatively useless information.

Many craft beers are continuously hopped 30-45 minute additinos offer some bittering and impart some amount of flavor to the beer (probably more bitter from the 45 and some bittering and flavor from the 30 additions)

The multiple yeasts will be split between two batches, not used together in the same fermenter. Reread the post rather than skimming it over and making an assumption and posting useless information that has nothing to do with my original question.

And for your pointless "criticism" it is just that. What does it matter if hop additions are metric?!?! Anyone with half a brain knows that 3.5g = 1/8 oz, 7g = 1/4oz, 14g = 1/2 oz, 21g = 3/4oz, and 28g = 1 oz.

Next time you think about posting a response:
1. think about what the person is asking
2. if you have nothing to contribute
a. go back to #1
b. don't post
3. if you have to say pointless about information you posting, don't post it (see #2)
4. read the original post and the posts that follow to understand the evolution of the conversation so whn you do have something to contribute (see #1) you can actually provide some constructive feedback.
5. Realize that there are brewers here seeking advice from more knowledgeable brewers, AND that the people you are replying to may have more experience and knowledge than you regardless of the question being asked. (Advice is just that advice, I fail to see any suggestions, advice or constructive criticism anywhere in your post.)
6. Your post pisses me off because you aren't contributing you are complaining.
7. This is my thread. Be creative, suggestive and have something to offer or GTFO!

Thanks for nothing.

Cheers!

Click to expand...

"Please critique my hopping schedule for the IPA I am brewing Saturday." *Gets angry when hopping schedule is criticized.*

I was just saying multiple yeast strains can result in inconsistent results - sure I guess I misread it, but there's no reason to lose your mind over it.

mooshimanx said:

"Please critique my hopping schedule for the IPA I am brewing Saturday." *Gets angry when hopping schedule is criticized.*

I was just saying multiple yeast strains can result in inconsistent results - sure I guess I misread it, but there's no reason to lose your mind over it.

Click to expand...

Reread your original post. You aren't critiquing, you are complaining about things you apparently don't understand. Stop. Just sayin'.

Schnitzengiggle said:

Reread your original post. You aren't critiquing, you are complaining about things you apparently don't understand. Stop. Just sayin'.

Click to expand...

No, I'm saying I don't think those additions are as useful they could be as if they were used for the full boil or for significantly less than that. I'm fully aware some professional brewers do 45 and 30 minute additions. That doesn't mean I agree with them; in my experience they don't add much flavor or aroma at all and the amount of bitterness you get from them is somewhat variable.

I'm really not sure what's making you so angry about that.

(Also, the comment about your units wasn't meant to be a serious criticism either, it was just a tongue-in-cheek observation. I guess its true you can't see people winking over the internet, but still, your reaction seems unnecessarily aggressive given that my initial post wasn't really confrontational in the first place.)

bobbrews said:

You'll want more late hops for an 11 gallon batch of 1.069 OG IPA. A 1 oz. whirlpool and 1 oz. dryhop is quite weak. I would maybe quadruple these amounts. Shift all boil Citra/Columbus additions to 10 min, and the boil Belma additions to 20 min. You could move the Cascade at FWH to current 1 oz. dryhop for better results, and then add at least another 3 oz. to the dryhop of whatever you have left.

Click to expand...

Quadruple the boil amounts? Really?

I love hops but that seems overly aggressive...according to BS my IBUs are on par with the style, and I have used tons o'hops in the secondary, and in the keg with less than spectaclar results.

I love hops too, but I dunno if 1/2lb per 5 gallons is appropriate.

Please don't get me wrong this is info that I have taken into consideration, but the hops I have need to last at last a couple of brews...at least .

Schnitzengiggle said:

28.00 g Cascade [5.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 5 9.7 IBUs
28.00 g Bravo [14.20 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 27.4 IBUs
14.00 g Bravo [14.20 %] - Boil 45.0 min Hop 7 12.3 IBUs
14.00 g Belma [12.10 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 8 5.4 IBUs
14.00 g Columbus (Tomahawk) [15.80 %] - Boil 15. Hop 9 4.1 IBUs
14.00 g Belma [12.10 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 10 2.1 IBUs
14.00 g Citra [14.88 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 11 2.6 IBUs
14.00 g Columbus (Tomahawk) [15.80 %] - Boil 5.0 Hop 12 2.5 IBUs
28.00 g Citra [14.88 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
28.00 g Citra [14.88 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 16 0.0 IBUs

Thanks in advance!

Click to expand...

I would eliminate the fwhs and move them to flameout or dryhopping, use all the bravo at 60 for bittering, use the belma at 15 for the flavoring and eliminate the ctz and leave the rest as is or maybe add to the dry hop schedule

Beezer94 said:

Your water profile is fine as is. It is close to Tasty's APA water profile which is 350ppm SO4 & 50 Cl. I won't brew another hoppy beer without a similar sulfate/chloride ratio as it really makes a huge difference.

Click to expand...

I'll have to try this technique soon. I have no issue/complaints with my current lower ratio, but I've heard about mabrungard over in the Brew Science forum doing this as well. I usually split my batches, so I'll compare a 150/75 ratio to a 300-ish/50 ratio.

Schnitzengiggle said:

I apologize for the amount confusion. Since this will be split into two 5 gallon batches, The DH would be per batch.

Click to expand...

I find the best hop character in IPAs/IIPAs with a 0.50 oz. dryhop per gallon of beer (MINIMUM) and a 1.00 oz. dryhop per gallon of beer (MAXIMUM).

However, if you're using loose leaf hops to dryhop, much of the dryhop will float atop the beer and not really penetrate through. So that case would be an exception to eyeball the amount... or you could bag them with a weight.

mooshimanx said:

No, I'm saying I don't think those additions are as useful they could be as if they were used for the full boil or for significantly less than that. I'm fully aware some professional brewers do 45 and 30 minute additions. That doesn't mean I agree with them; in my experience they don't add much flavor or aroma at all and the amount of bitterness you get from them is somewhat variable.

Click to expand...

Early additions like these actually can matter depending on the recipe. Try brewing the Pliny the Elder clone with just 30-50 IBUs at the boil start, and then nothing until 15 minutes left in the boil... You'll have a VASTLY different beer. There are flavor contributions coming from early additions; they are just different. Not so much of a juicy aromatic pop of hop goodness, but more of a subdued complex layering of hop flavors when combined with the late additions. The small bittering followed by tons of hopbursting and huge dryhop method is just one way to brew IPAs. But if someone doesn't want straight up hop juice, then some more consideration for early additions can matter a bit more.

Schnitzengiggle said:

Quadruple the boil amounts? Really?

I love hops but that seems overly aggressive...according to BS my IBUs are on par with the style, and I have used tons o'hops in the secondary, and in the keg with less than spectaclar results.

Click to expand...

Quadruple the LATE boil amounts. But it's entirely up to you. For a 5 gallon batch of IIPA at the same OG, I typically add 4-6 oz. hops between 20-0 min. It appears that you are only adding 3 oz. hops for an 11 gallon batch between these same time slots.

Your IBUs are on par with style because of your focus on early additions. Even so, you can ignore what is "to style" and add significantly more. Plenty of great Vermont & Cali breweries do this and they are putting out some of the best IIPAs out there. I've also done this many times with excellent results. Don't be afraid of exceeding the recommended amount IBUs for IIPAs on your calculator.

Further proof that you won't have a bitter bomb is that actual total iso-alpha acid solubility in high OG wort tops off at about 90-110 IBUs. The human palate can also not sense more than this amount of IBUs. So whatever your theoretical IBUs read as, is not what you will actually have in the end. And late additions are MUCH smoother than early additions. So as long as your fermentables carry enough weight to support the hop bill, which they do, then you should have no issues with adding more late hops.

According to your gram to oz. conversions, you currently only have 6 oz. boil/flameout hops (2 oz. of which are used early) for 14 gallons of wort from boil start. For the same OG, and 6.5 gallons of wort at boil start, I use about 6-9 oz. total boil/flameout hops (0.75 to 1 oz early). Something to think about.

bobbrews said:

Quadruple the LATE boil amounts. But it's entirely up to you. For a 5 gallon batch of IIPA at the same OG, I typically add 4-6 oz. hops between 20-0 min. It appears that you are only adding 3 oz. hops for an 11 gallon batch between these same time slots.

Your IBUs are on par with style because of your focus on early additions. Even so, you can ignore what is "to style" and add significantly more. Plenty of great Vermont & Cali breweries do this and they are putting out some of the best IIPAs out there. I've also done this many times with excellent results. Don't be afraid of exceeding the recommended amount IBUs for IIPAs on your calculator.

Further proof that you won't have a bitter bomb is that actual total iso-alpha acid solubility in high OG wort tops off at about 90-110 IBUs. The human palate can also not sense more than this amount of IBUs. So whatever your theoretical IBUs read as, is not what you will actually have in the end. And late additions are MUCH smoother than early additions. So as long as your fermentables carry enough weight to support the hop bill, which they do, then you should have no issues with adding more late hops.

According to your gram to oz. conversions, you currently only have 6 oz. boil/flameout hops (2 oz. of which are used early) for 14 gallons of wort from boil start. For the same OG, and 6.5 gallons of wort at boil start, I use about 6-9 oz. total boil/flameout hops (0.75 to 1 oz early). Something to think about.

Click to expand...

Alright, I will up the late additions and DH. FWIW the estimated IBUs are around 70.

Thank you again for your help.

Alright here is my finalized recipe:

Style: American IPA
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 13.81 gal
Post Boil Volume: 12.48 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 11.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 11.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.070 SG
Estimated Color: 7.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 89.8 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 79.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 86.2 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
20 lbs Pale Ale Malt 2-Row (Briess) (3.5 SRM) Grain 1 76.0 %
3 lbs 8.0 oz Maris Otter (Crisp) (4.0 SRM) Grain 2 13.3 %
1 lbs 5.3 oz Munich (Dingemans) (5.5 SRM) Grain 3 5.1 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.8 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 5 1.9 %
42.00 g Bravo [15.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 44.8 IBUs
28.00 g Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 60. Hop 7 27.0 IBUs
28.00 g Belma [12.10 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 8 7.1 IBUs
28.00 g Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 9 4.2 IBUs
14.00 g Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 10. Hop 10 2.7 IBUs
14.00 g Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 11 1.8 IBUs
14.00 g Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 5.0 Hop 12 2.2 IBUs
28.00 g Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
28.00 g Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 0.0 Hop 14 0.0 IBUs


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 26 lbs 5.3 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 39.61 qt of water at 162.0 F 149.0 F 90 min

Sparge: Batch sparge with 3 steps (Drain mash tun, , 3.55gal, 3.55gal) of 168.0 F water.

I have a total of 8oz of hops in the recipe, and 5.5oz are 20 minutes or less. This provides and IBU/SG of 1.29, and an estimated 89.8 IBUs (Rager).

I haven't included DH schedule in the recipe. I still don't know what I want to do with the Belma. Definitley Citra, Columbus, and what I have left of the Cascades for one of the 5 gallon batches. Maybe only Belma for the other just to see what it does for the aroma? We'll see how they taste after primary.

bobbbrews I know you mentioned that you use 6-9oz in a 6.5 gallon boil, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I also think you mentioned that was for an IIPA.

This recipe is not a double it will be a standard IPA with the gravity toward the upper end of the style. I have researched some of my favorite commercial IPAs and their clone recipes (Stone IPA, Odell IPA, FW Union Jack, Green Flash WCIPA) and looked at their hopping schedules, amounts, times, AA%, varieties and such. I think what I have come up with will produce satisfactory results (fingers crossed).

Thanks for your help, please let me know if you see any major flaws with my schedule (other than of course to quadruple my current amounts ).

I would ease back on the IBUs at 60 minutes and either boost the 20 minute addition, or layer the first addition like you originally intended at 30 minutes. Personally, I would late addition and dryhop with Citra & Cascade. Save the Bravo/Columbus for early additions and the Belma for middle additions.

Schnitzengiggle said:

bobbbrews I know you mentioned that you use 6-9oz in a 6.5 gallon boil, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I also think you mentioned that was for an IIPA.

Click to expand...

No, 6-9 oz. total hops is for my standard IPAs. Double IPAs have more like 9-14 oz. total hops for a 6.5 gallon boil, including dryhop. The 6-9 oz. for a standard IPA includes the dryhop as well.

bobbrews said:

I would ease back on the IBUs at 60 minutes and either boost the 20 minute addition, or layer the first addition like you originally intended at 30 minutes. Personally, I would late addition and dryhop with Citra & Cascade. Save the Bravo/Columbus for early additions and the Belma for middle additions.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I read your post too late, so I brewed to the last recipe I posted. The great news is that brew day went on without a hitch, I ended up mashing at 150°F rather than my intended 149°F, and since it was chilly I tossed a blanket on top of my mash tun (I normally don't do this) so I did not lose the 1°F that I normally would over the 90 minute mash. Pre-boil gravity 1.059, OG 1.071. Smelled wonderful the sample was quite bitter estimated IBUs ended up at 90.

bobbrews said:

No, 6-9 oz. total hops is for my standard IPAs. Double IPAs have more like 9-14 oz. total hops for a 6.5 gallon boil, including dryhop. The 6-9 oz. for a standard IPA includes the dryhop as well.

Click to expand...

I apologize, I misunderstood. Then I am on target with your total hops amounts, so that is good.

Thanks for your help. I'll post results and a picture of the finished beer in about a month or so. Fermenting at 65°F and it's blowing off in the fermentation chamber now .

Good. Let us know. Sounds like everything is working out for you. You did bitter quite a bit, but try not to be bothered by the bitterness of the sample. It should smooth out significantly with further conditioning and carbing. I never appreciate that initial sip like I do when the beer is done. It always tastes like harshly bitter hop tea at first, but then it turns into liquid magic with some patience.

If it's still harsh in 3 weeks, then you may be able to offset this a bit by using 0.75 oz. of juicy/fruity pellet dryhops per gallon of beer (A high oil Citra dryhop would do a good job of lending a juicy sweetness to a very bitter beer).

For a beer similar to this, I will typically give it 4 weeks in the carboy including the 1-2 week dryhop. Low 60s during the first 5-7 days, then high 60s afterward and during the dryhop.

Schnitz!

Soperbrew said:

Schnitz!

Click to expand...

Soper! Ha!

bobbrews said:

For a beer similar to this, I will typically give it 4 weeks in the carboy including the 1-2 week dryhop. Low 60s during the first 5-7 days, then high 60s afterward and during the dryhop.

Click to expand...

I will more than likely do 21d primary. I was attempting to find a temperature that would be acceptable for both WLP 001 & 007, so I settled for 65F which means internal term temps are slightly higher since I tape my temp probe to the outside of the fermenter with a block of foam insulation. I also taped it to the WLP007 fermenter. From experience it ferments quite a bit stronger than the 001, so I estimate internal temps to be no higher than 70 F. I pitched at as bout 62ish, but the 007 blew off all day yesterday switching to airlocks tomorrow. I plan to bump up my temps starting Thursday 1-2 degrees per day depending on the fermentation. WLP007 drops like a rock, so I want to be sure I get full attenuation from it. I know 001 takes forever to flocc out so I'm not concerned about it too much.

After primary I'll cold crash 2-3days, allow the beer to come up to room temp, 70 or so, then dry hop/rack to primary for another 7 days or so. Cold crash again, rack to keg and carb.

That's the plan anyway.

Schnitzengiggle said:

Soper! Ha!

Click to expand...

If I drive down will you share some of this beer with me?

Soperbrew said:

If I drive down will you share some of this beer with me?

Click to expand...

Of course!

UPDATE:

WLP007 FG 1.012 @ 58.3 = 1.012
WLP001 FG 1.010 @ 56.5 = 1.010

Dry hopped the WLP007 with 2oz of Belma hops.
Dry hopped the WLP001 with 2oz of Citra hops.

I intended on using Cascade along with the Citra, but my Cascades are slightly over 1 year old, and when I took them out of the freezer there was no vaccuum in the container. Therefore, I think they were oxidized; their aroma was off. I plan to use them at some point, probably for bittering, but they aren't going to make it in this beer.

I tasted the samples I drew off for the SG check - both are a nice light copper color:

WLP007: slightly sweet, well bittered, nice malty/grainy flavor akin to an English ale, but not as pronounced, the hop flavor was slightly muted (not has bright as I would hope.)

WLP001: Balanced, not as sweet as the WLP007 (I suppose that this is given English vs. American yeasts), malty/grainy flavor, hop flavors not muted such as with the WLP007, nice bright hoppy flavor with a bitter backbone.

Both are good. I think it is too early to tell, but if my intuition serves me correctly, I will cut back on the bittering addition. I think I may have been a little too aggressive with the bittering, but the additional aging in the secondary, and dry hops may solve it.

I am happy that I dry hopped the WLP007 with the Belma opposed to the Citra. At this point, I think the WLP001 has turned out to be the better beer, but I know that there is at least another 3 weeks before it will be drinkable, so only time will tell, and the Belma is completely up in the air as far as flavor/aroma since there are so many mixed reviews.

Otherwise the beer is in secondary now. I will cold crash a second time next weekend before racking to kegs.

I'll post results and tasting notes when the final product is ready.