Should I have made a starter?

I started a batch of Boddington's Clone last night (link). Its now been 24 hours, and not a single bubble. I used a liquid White Labs WLP002 English Ale yeast, warmed up to room temp then pitched directly. I also streaked some to an agar plate (Luria Broth; LB) and its not growing great, but there is some growth. I'm gonna give it overnight now, then hydrate and add a packet of dry Nottingham I happen to have unless you can talk me out of it... TIA

Firstly, just posting this thread should get your yeast going....it's some kind of weird Beer God joke thing. Secondly, it's way too early to think nothing is happening. Give it another 48 hours before you do anything. It takes a while for liquid yeast to build up enough cells to really get going unless you make a starter.

Be patient, English ale yeast is typically slow to start. I've had it take as long as three days to start bubbling.

Keeping it warm will help get things moving. I like to keep mine around 73 degrees with a heating pad until fermentation starts and then move it to a cool spot.

Tom

White Labs says that you can pitch directly without a starter, and you can, but you will get much quicker starts if you make a starter. Basically, you are under pitching if you just pour in one vial and it takes time for the yeast to adjust to there new environment and start to reproduce. 24-36 hours is not uncommon especially if it isn't a very fresh vial. If you don't see much activity by tomorrow night I would go ahead and pitch your dry yeast.

In the future I would suggest making starters with your liquid yeast and re-hydrating your dry yeast. It's a little extra time but the benefits of doing so are worth it. What was the temperature of your wort when you pitched?

I've recently learned that starters are great. For years I direct pitched my yeast with no starter. With a starter your fermentation will start faster and finish faster. It's well worth the time.

Thanks guys. You've talked me down - at least until tonight!

Nothing has happened overnight though.

I pitched at about 74. The fermentor has been at about 67. I'll move it little nearer the heating vent...

I just had the same problem with a liquid yeast. It took somewhere around 60-70 hours to start. That was 12 days ago it started and it hasnt let up yet! Stop already! Anyway, give it another day.

BioBeing said:

The fermentor has been at about 67. I'll move it little nearer the heating vent...

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ACK! NONONONO! 67 is perfect. I had a batch of Rye that touched 73 with 002 and there is a twinge of hot, solventy, ammonia fusel if you leave it in a glass for a while. White Labs' range is 65-68.

Wait it out. You are fine! Read this https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/fermentation-can-take-24-72-hrs-start-43635/ while you wait and as Nurmey said it will start just because you asked about it.

My first 3 batches were with WLP002 yeast. Liquid yeast is notorious for slow startups. I did not do a starter with my first batch, and it took almost 3 days for it to go. My second batch, I did a starter, and it was bubbling in 12 hours. From my limited experience, what you are experiencing is normal.

RDWGTIHFPAIITEFHB* and all will be well. I'm starting to get a krausen now at about 36 hours. Thanks guys.

But it seems the answer to my question is a qualified yes. I should (for optimal pitching) have made a starter.

BTW - does anyone have a good technical reference for pitching yeast? I'm a PhD scientist with many years microbiology (bacteria, not yeast though) experience...



*Relax, don't worry, go to I-Hop for pancakes as it is too early for homebrew.

LOL - that's why you streaked it on an agar plate. I was kinda curious about that. I don't have a technical reference for you, but I would be interested in reading one.

I just pitched two vials of White Labs wlp550 (belgian ale). I was worried about not having a starter also. The yeast had also been out of the fridge for about 28 hours at room temp. I shook both up vigorously and pitched. I saw bubbles in about 5 hours...who knows, maybe i had Super Yeast. They are having a field day in there...

reim0027 said:

LOL - that's why you streaked it on an agar plate. I was kinda curious about that.

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You mean you don't all do that? I am planning on growing it up in some wort for my next starter.

Try MB Raines, Ph.D. - Guide to Yeast Culturing for Homebrewers - Maltose Falcons Home Brewing Society (Los Angeles Homebrewing)

-a.

ajf said:

Try MB Raines, Ph.D. - Guide to Yeast Culturing for Homebrewers - Maltose Falcons Home Brewing Society (Los Angeles Homebrewing)

-a.

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Perfect! Thanks.

For the record: 48+ hours now, and fermenting like a champ. I didn't move it; nor did I pitch more yeast. Y'all did me good!

norcal_nerd said:

I just pitched two vials of White Labs wlp550 (belgian ale). I was worried about not having a starter also. The yeast had also been out of the fridge for about 28 hours at room temp. I shook both up vigorously and pitched. I saw bubbles in about 5 hours...who knows, maybe i had Super Yeast. They are having a field day in there...

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You did not have super yeast. You pitched something close to the appropriate amount. Good job!


BioBeing:

That is an excellent reference. You can figure out pitching rates yourself by memorizing this industry-wide Rule of Thumb: Pitch 1 million cells per milliliter of wort per degree Plato. Degrees Plato is a measurement akin to specific gravity, as I'm sure you're aware, which is roughly equal to SG/4. Thus, 1.048 SG = 12°P. Pitching five gallons (19L) of 12°P wort requires approximately 225 billion cells.

It's pretty simple, which is why I could learn it. In fact, I wrote the short blurb in the HBT Wiki about pitching rates.

Cheers!

Bob

Thanks NQ3X. Good short write up. For my day job, the growth phase of the bacteria is more important than actual number - they want to be really healthy (mid-log) when you pitch them. Of course, number does help... but for different reasons. Have to get used to thinking a bit differently!


Oh, and my blow-off tube blew off overnight. Yeasties are doing their thing alright!

Woot! Glad your ferment is vigourous.

Please understand I approach yeast management from the practical side, not the theoretical. The furthest I get into the lab side is methylene blue stain and viability counts. I don't even know what 'mid-log' means, much less integrate it into my management. I just know from experience (read: long apprenticeship) what good yeast looks, smells and tastes like, how much of it to pitch, and how many generations is too many.

I should get you to patiently explain to me the microbiological side of things!

Bob