Harvesting yeast from commercial beer

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BobbiLynn

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I'm been looking up info about harvesting yeast and the more I read, the more my head starts to swirl. Or maybe it's the 6 pack I downed to get the yeast from the bottom of the bottles. The beer is extra pale ale from sweet water brewery and the beer I want to make with it is "lighthouse ale" from my local homebrew shop. It's a pale ale. I carefully poured each one leaving the last inch or 2 in the bottom of the bottle, I can see lots of yeast down there.

What is the best, easiest way to get the yeast going for a 5 gallon batch? How much will using this yeast change the flavor and process, compared to the cheap dry yeast the recipe kit comes with?

I think I understand that I can harvest the yeast in a mason jar with a little starter wort or just liquid malt extract? What about sugar water? Can I harvest the yeast in sugar water? Sorry, if that is a stupid question.

Could someone point me in the right direction?
 
You want to harvest bottle conditioned yeast the same way you make a starter, with malt extract. Just follow any instructions for making a yeast starter, but instead pour the dregs from as many bottles of the beer you are harvesting from as possible. I usually drink everything but and inch of beer from at least a sixer of the beer, sanitizing the bottle and recapping them with a fresh cap and storing in my fridge until ready to harvest.

Then make your starter wort...resanitize the capped bottles with a spray bottle of sanitizer. Open it, I then usually flame the lip and neck of the bottle with one of those long fireplace lighters, the spray with sanitizer again, and swirl the dregs and add it to my cooled starter wort.

I do that for each bottle I have. Cover the starter vessel with sanitzed foil, give it a good shake to aerate it, and let it be. As it grows, every coupla days I feed it more wort to grow it up, over a week or two.
 
every coupla days I feed it more wort to grow it up, over a week or two.

Could I use "yeast feed" from my local HBS if I don't want to bother with mixing up wort every couple of days? They are little $1.49 each packets you buy to feed your yeast and keep them active, would that work instead of adding more wort? Though, I guess additional wort would be cheaper. Oh, and provide more "room to grow"?

Thanks so much, this help tremendously!
 
I'm in the middle of doing this with Sierra Nevada Kellerweis yeast. I just mixed up a 1-liter starter, poured 2 bottles except for the last 1/2 inch and and swirled the remainder around in there and then pitched it into the starter. I did the same thing with the rest of the 6-pack over the next few days. It probably took 2 days for it to really get going. I added another liter to it 3 days ago and i'll probably brew with it tomorrow. It smells really nice.
 
Is liquid malt extract from a jar, considered as "wort". Maybe I just don't understand the terms.
 
Okay, thanks also, BetterSense, I'm starting to catch on, the whole yeast thing had me confused. Good to hear from others trying the same thing. Any good past topics about this, just point me in the right direction!
 
Could I use "yeast feed" from my local HBS if I don't want to bother with mixing up wort every couple of days? They are little $1.49 each packets you buy to feed your yeast and keep them active, would that work instead of adding more wort? Though, I guess additional wort would be cheaper. Oh, and provide more "room to grow"?

Thanks so much, this help tremendously!

Yeast feed is a nutrient, it's not a fermentable, it helps the yeast ferment. You need wort to make a starter/grow yeast.

It's really not hard to do. You seem to be hesitant about doing it. But you have to do it the right way to make it work.

Here's a simple illustrated thread on it....
 
from what i have read about harvesting from bottles is you need to know if they use a different yeast for bottling then the actual yeast they used in the primary fermentation. would result in a huge difference of the strain of yeast you get.
 
from what i have read about harvesting from bottles is you need to know if they use a different yeast for bottling then the actual yeast they used in the primary fermentation. would result in a huge difference of the strain of yeast you get.

Not this again.......Will this little "chestnut" ever die the death it deserves, and not get passed on by every noob when this topic comes up?

Very few breweries swap out their yeasts. And it's mostly Belgians to disguise proprietary strains. And those that filter, and then bottle condition using something clean and neutral.

But the truth of the matter is just the opposite, there is a vast amount of bottle conditioned beers out there that do NOT disguise their strains. And are readily useable.

This is a pretty decent list of bottle conditioned beers, that tells whether or not the fermentation strain is in the bottles.

http://www.nada.kth.se/~alun/Beer/Bottle-Yeasts/
(it's not complete, but it's one of the best sources we have.

But often times you can actually google and find out whether or not the fermentation strain is still in the bottle, and often even what strain they use.

Using the simple google phrase "Bottle Harvesting (beer name) yeast" will usually net you enough information as to whether or not it is. It usually takes you to a thread on here, but even the brewery websites will often tell you.

One Belgian brewery website even has a "for the homebrewers" notice on some of their beer info stating whether or not you should harvest the yeast or not. They actually say "Beer x is conditioned with a different strain." "Beer y can be harvested."

It's been my experience to actually assume the yeast you are harvesting IS the fermentation strain, rather than dropping the old "Many breweries bottle with a different yeast than what they brew with" line that someone inevitably says whenever someone posts a question like this. Or volunteer the information if you actually know whether the beer being asked about is.

There's very little reason for a TYPICAL micro/craft brewery to go through the extra time and expense to do that.
 
considering when i asked the question and 60 people looked at my post no one answered and when i googled all i found was pretty much nothing.
all i ever found was when getting a beer from commercial breweries you might not be getting the proper strain. i think several hits were from here and some people said yes good to go and some said no it is a conditioning yeast ...
but yeah i am a noob and i am constantly learning and getting more information on the whole proses of brewing.
no need to give the whole F noobs rant. ( i know how to google how do you think i found this site.)
 
BetterSense said:
I'm in the middle of doing this with Sierra Nevada Kellerweis yeast. I just mixed up a 1-liter starter, poured 2 bottles except for the last 1/2 inch and and swirled the remainder around in there and then pitched it into the starter. I did the same thing with the rest of the 6-pack over the next few days. It probably took 2 days for it to really get going. I added another liter to it 3 days ago and i'll probably brew with it tomorrow. It smells really nice.

Not sure about the Kellerweis but Sierra Nevada filters their APA then adds a different yeast at bottling for carbonation. You may not be getting the same yeast that the beer was fermented with.
 
Well, for what it's worth the starter smells and tastes very similar to the real deal, so at this point I'm convinced it's the fermentation strain.

I thought Sierra Nevada Pale ale was filtered, anyway.
 
If you don't know how to do a starter, I would not bother with harvesting commercial bottled yeast.

Assuming you can make a starter. For bottled yeast, unless the bottle is really fresh, you should use a starter wot about half that you would normally use. I can my wort, and if I harvest from a bottle, I mix half the starter wort with cooled water from my kettle. Starter wort for harvesting bottled yeast should be about 1.020.

You only need 1 bottle to grow yeast from. More = better chance of success. I generally add the dregs (last quarter to half inch of bottle) of a few bottles together and add about 6 ozs of 1.020 wort, aerate, and cover with foil. If the yeast is old it can take a few days, even a week to get going. If you don't see any activity, don't assume it failed; check the gravity of the wort/beer to see if it did anything.

Kellerweise has viable yeast. I've cultured it. Problem with that yeast is trying to get it to perform how SN did. I never had much success, not sure if it is temperature dependent, or something to do with their open fermenters.
 
Could I use "yeast feed" from my local HBS if I don't want to bother with mixing up wort every couple of days? They are little $1.49 each packets you buy to feed your yeast and keep them active, would that work instead of adding more wort? Though, I guess additional wort would be cheaper. Oh, and provide more "room to grow"?

Thanks so much, this help tremendously!

You wouldn't need to make more wort each time, although that's what I do.
You could make a gallon and put it in the fridge. Take some out when you need it, let it warm up and add it to the starter.

I've never grown a starter quite like what you want to do, but I have had my starter going and had brew day delayed for a week or so. I just kept stepping up the starter to keep it going and happy.
 
If you don't know how to do a starter, I would not bother with harvesting commercial bottled yeast.

I want to try it for the first time, because I feel like I need to learn this stuff. I know what I read about making a starter, but don't understand why I have to do it that way and not sure that I'm understanding the terms properly. {Insert stupid question here} I can follow directions well, so will do it that way, just wanted to know what my other options were if I was trying to harvest straight from the bottle and I like the "plain English" tips people have offered. And I don't really know why I should learn how to make a starter from something I can just go out and buy, except to speed up the process once I start a brew and I'm really not in a big hurry. I want my pale ale to taste more like what Sweet Waters makes and I thought harvesting their yeast would be the first step.

I am learning from all the comments even if it doesn't seem like it by my questions. My local shop has printed instructions but I'm having trouble understanding the reasoning behind it, and why do I have to do it that way? And, when I read directions on other sites, it's not the exact same method I learned, or thought I understood from reading.

I don't think Sweet Water filters their beer, because if they did, all that sediment would not be on the bottom. There is too much there to just be using it for carbonation.
 
You could make a gallon and put it in the fridge. Take some out when you need it, let it warm up and add it to the starter.

I didn't realize I could do this, thanks!!!
 
BobbiLynn said:
And I don't really know why I should learn how to make a starter from something I can just go out and buy, except to speed up the process once I start a brew and I'm really not in a big hurry.

The reason most people make a starter is so that they can pitch the proper amount of yeast.
Pitching in the proper amount of yeast helps make sure they get a good healthy start and don't cause off flavors by being stressed.
Depending on the beer your brewing, One or two packages might not be nearly enough yeast.
A starter is the way to multiply the number of yeast cells that you have.
Another reason for a starter is so the yeast kicks off fast and start the fermentation and produces the layer of CO2 that helps protect the wort from infection.
One reason that I liked always make a starter is so that I know I have good viable yeast when I pitch it.
It's just an easy step that helps make sure your beer gets off to a good start.
 
It's just an easy step that helps make sure your beer gets off to a good start.

If you say it's easy, I'll believe you for now. See, my local homebrew shop prides itself on providing the perfect ingredients, and perfect amount of fresh, viable yeast. Who am I to question them? Now, I have had to add an extra packet of yeast, despite their claims. And actually that's why I don't have enough yeast to go with the recipe kits I have left on hand. I will keep reading and trying until I eventually comprehend the whole yeast thing!
 
There are tools to calculate the amount of yeast you should have.
Beersmith has it and I think http://yeastcalc.com/ is what some people use.
You can input what your yeast is, the date on the package and it will know what you should have for live yeast to start with.
If you use one of these you will see that sometimes you would need an extra bag to carry all the yeast vials, or you take the one that the brew store gives you and make a starter.
The software will even tell you the size of starter you need.
As for figuring out the whole yeast thing, there is a lot to learn. To start with you can learn the basics of what makes yeast happy, how to figure out the amount you need and how to make a starter on here.
Then you will be ready to read a book like "Yeast the practical guide to beer fermentation" and figure out what you don't know yet.
The main things to know are how much yeast, how to get that many, how to give them the oxygen they need and what sort of temperature they like to do their work in.
After that it's fine tuning.
 
If you say it's easy, I'll believe you for now. See, my local homebrew shop prides itself on providing the perfect ingredients, and perfect amount of fresh, viable yeast. Who am I to question them? Now, I have had to add an extra packet of yeast, despite their claims. And act

If it's liquid do you come out with multiple tubes/smack packs of yeast? If not then they're NOT providing yo with the "perfect amount of fresh viable yeast" in most cases a single tube/smack pack is NOT enough yeast for a good healthy fermentation, hence the need to make a starter.


The biggest reason I suggest folks make a starter is if you make one you'll have peace of mind. It's especially important if you have questionable situation happenning with your yeast, like not being sure the yeast arrived healthy. ;)

And you won't be starting an "is my yeast dead" thread in a couple of days.

Making a starter first insures that your yeast is still alive and viable before you dump it in your beer. You will be less likely to start one of those "is my yeast dead?" threads that are on here every day.

You will also ensure that you have enough yeast usually the tubes and smack packs are a lot less yeast that you really should use for healthy fermentation.

Making a starter also usually means your beer will take off sooner, because the first thing that the little buggers do in the presence of wort (whether in a flask or in a fermenter) is have an orgy to reproduce enough cells to do the job...So it won't take such a long time in the fermenter since they started doing it in the flask.

Additionally it is better for the yeast to consume and reproduce incrementally rather than just dumping them into the fermenter...The yeast will be less stressed out than if you just dump them in.

Stressed out yeast can lead to a lot of off flavors...maybe even (though rare) the dreaded autolysis....Or the curse of 1.030....getting a stuck fermentation because the yeast have bit the dust.

So making a starter proves your yeast is still healthy, allows you to grow enough yeast to do the job, cuts down on lag time, and ensures that you will not get off flavors or stuck ferementations from stressed out yeast.

Also has to do with the actual pitch rates of the smack packs and tubes, and has to do with the data that Jamil Z has on his mr malty website.

I'll quote some of it, but really you should look at the stuff there;

Mrmalty.com

Ales & Lagers

The general consensus on pitching rates is that you want to pitch around 1 million cells of viable yeast, for every milliliter of wort, for every degree plato. A little less for an ale, a little more for a lager. George Fix states about 1.5 million for a lager and 0.75 million for an ale in his book, An Analysis of Brewing Techniques. Other literature cites a slightly higher amount. I'm going with Fix's numbers and that is what the pitching calculator uses.
The Math

If you're curious, here is the simple math to calculate the number of cells needed. For an ale, you want to pitch around 0.75 million cells of viable yeast (0.75 million for an ale, 1.5 million for a lager), for every milliliter of wort, for every degree plato.

(0.75 million) X (milliliters of wort) X (degrees Plato of the wort)

* There is about 3785 milliliters in a gallon. There are about 20,000 milliliters in 5.25 gallons.

* A degree Plato is about 1.004 of original gravity. Just divide the OG by 4 to get Plato (e.g., 1.048 is 12 degrees Plato).

So, for a 1.048 wort pitching into 5.25 gallons you need about 180 billion cells.

(750,000) X (20,000) X (12) = 180,000,000,000

As an easy to remember rough estimate, you need about 15 billion cells for each degree Plato or about 4 billion cells for each point of OG when pitching into a little over 5 gallons of wort. If you want a quick way of doing a back of the envelope estimate, that is really close to 0.75 billion cells for each point of gravity per gallon of wort. Double that to 1.5 billion for a lager.
Pitching From Tubes, Packs, or Dry Yeast

Both White Labs and Wyeast make fantastic products and you can't go wrong with either one. There are differences between their strains and each brand has pluses and minuses yet neither is better than the other across the board. Use the brand your local homebrew shop carries, if you need a way to decide.

A White Labs tube has between 70 and 120 billion cells of 100% viable yeast, depending on the yeast strain. Some cells are much larger than others and there are more or less per ml based on size. (The information on the White Labs web site stating 30 to 50 billion cells is out of date.) We can just assume there are around 100 billion very healthy yeast. You would need 2 tubes if you were pitching directly into 5.5 gallons of 1.048 wort to get the proper cell counts.

A Wyeast Activator pack (the really big ones) and the pitchable tubes have an average of 100 billion cells of 100% viable yeast. The smaller packs are around 15-18 billion cells. You would need 2 of the large packs if you were pitching directly into 5.5 gallons of 1.048 wort to get the proper cell counts. For the small packs, you'd need eleven of them!


But to make it easier he has a great pitch rate calculator Mrmalty.com

And according to his numbers on his calculator, really any beer above 1.020, you should be making a starter for.

Me personally when I use liquid yeast I just make a starter. I may not be as anal as some brewers and makes sure that I have the exact cellcount for whatever gravity beer I am making, but I do make one for the above reasons I mentioned, namely peace of mid, and a reduction in lag time.

Seriously, that's one way to insure you have clean tasting beer, not to stress out or underpitch your yeast. You may find the "bothering" to make a starter will make even the less than best kit beer come out tasting great.
 
I just kegged the beer I made with the Kellerweis yeast. It's amazing! Possibly my favorite homebrew now. It came out a bit sweeter than I expected, probably because I have chronic hops utilization problems due to something in my system. But I'm not used to wheat beers, so it's probably normal. Makes a great dessert beer. I got a significant amount of clove flavor with banana still present, which is a bit different than the Kellerweis which I don't remember having much clove flavor.

My LHBS wheat LME was a bit darker than I expected. I boiled an ounce of Hallertau in plain water for 30 minutes then added the LME and boiled it together for another 15 minutes or so, cooled all the way down to 20C and pitched about a liter of my starter along with all the yeast slurry. I fermented in my keezmentation chamber fairly cool, same as all my ales at around 16-18C. The yeast was very aggressive and I thought I was going to have a boil-over (I never use a blowoff tube or anything because I've never had to when making 5 gallon batches in my 7 gallon carboy).

Not bad for free yeast!:ban:
 
If you say it's easy, I'll believe you for now. See, my local homebrew shop prides itself on providing the perfect ingredients, and perfect amount of fresh, viable yeast. Who am I to question them? Now, I have had to add an extra packet of yeast, despite their claims. And actually that's why I don't have enough yeast to go with the recipe kits I have left on hand. I will keep reading and trying until I eventually comprehend the whole yeast thing!

http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/Brew-Strong/Brew-Strong-12-22-08-Yeast-Starters

http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/492

http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/543
 
I forgot to mention, that I actually got pretty poor attentuation with my harvested yeast...I started around 1.048 and ended around 1.015. This might be why it ended up a tad sweet.

I have heard that with some yeasts, attenuation goes up with reuse. If I wasn't a total idiot, I would have saved some of the yeast from the batch. I somehow forgot that I can't just go out and buy more of this stuff, and the only way is to culture more of it. Sigh.
 
This may be a little off topic but this is an article that explains pretty well the harvesting of yeast from an unfiltered beer (An amazing one, I might add) and how the brewer stepped it up and such to get it pitchable.

http://www.bear-flavored.com/2012/09/culturing-conan-aka-alchemists-heady.html

sidenote: Heady Topper is easily one of the best DIPA I have had the pleasure of tasting. I am planning on harvesting and farming the yeast from this beer with the next 4-pack I get... it apparently has super high attenuation and is perfectly suited for higher ABV ales! I'm getting too excited... must leave thread!
 
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