Extra Special Bitter

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vinnythering

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This one is for July 27. Never used Melanoiden Malt before so I am unsure of what this will do. I have read that I may be aiming to use too much, but I will let you all be the judge of that and help me tweak my recipe.

Style: Extra Special Bitter

Estimated Measurements:
SRM: 10.9 SRM
IBU: 39.1 IBUs
OG: 1.053 SG
FG: 1.017 SG
ABV: 4.7 %

70.9% 7.0 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter
10.1% 1.0 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L
7.6 % 12.0 oz Melanoiden Malt
6.3 % 10.0 oz Victory Malt
5.1 % 8.0 oz Aromatic Malt

Add 13 qt of 169F water - 156F for 60 min
Add 4.5 qt of 209F water - 168F for 10 min

1.00 oz Challenger 7.5 % ---------- Boil 60 min
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent 5.0 % - Boil 60 min
1 Whirlfloc Tablet ---------------- Boil 15 min
0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient ----------- Boil 15 min
1.50 oz Goldings, East Kent 5.0 % - Boil 5 min

Britsh Ale Yeast WLP005

2 weeks primary at 67F
2 weeks secondary at 67F


I don't have any real concerns, just wondering what the Melanoiden will do. Maybe also wondering if I am in style with this grain bill and hop schedule. Also, if this recipe will be any good. Thanks!
 
Well, there are different schools of thought on these types of things, US v. UK style, but you really have WAY too much character malts here. Crystal is fine at 10%, but with nearly 20% biscuit type malts you might as well be brewing a dopplebock. If this was my recipe, I'd drop the melanoiden and aromatic for sure and probably even the victory. If you are paying extra $$ for a good quality MO malt, why cover up its flavor with a bunch of other biscuit malts? If you want more toasty-biscuit flavors, I would toast 1/2 of MO in the oven for 15 min before using any of those other ones. Though 1/2lb of victory would be ok too.

Other than that, all looks good. Though, I'd probably move the first golding addition to 15min for a bit of hop flavor and mash a bit lower, say 152-154F, since the ringwood yeast is going to attenuate pretty well regardless. Just make sure to pitch a large amount of healthy yeast and oxygenate well if you don't want a lot of diacetyl. Good luck with the brew.
 
If this was my recipe, I'd drop the melanoiden and aromatic for sure and probably even the victory.

When you say drop, do you mean completely omit them from the recipe or just lower the amount? Either way is okay with me I am just unsure of what you mean.
 
Got it. After reading your first post I did some more digging and found that a huge majority of ESB recipes don't have any biscuit malts. I don't know why I included so many. I think I might have been getting styles mixed up in my head when I designed this. I'm pretty sure I did it in the middle of the night too. :eek: Anyway, here is the new recipe:

Style: Extra Special Bitter

Estimated Measurements:
SRM: 10.4 SRM
IBU: 34.5 IBUs
OG: 1.054 SG
FG: 1.016 SG
ABV: 5.0 %

85.0% 9 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter
7.5 % 12oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L
2.5 % 4 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 120L
5.0 % 8 oz Victory Malt

Add 12 qt of 168F water - 154F for 60 min
Add 5 qt of 209F water - 168F for 10 min

1.00 oz Challenger 7.5 % ---------- Boil 60 min
1 Whirlfloc Tablet ---------------- Boil 15 min
0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient ----------- Boil 15 min
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent 5.0 % - Boil 15 min
1.50 oz Goldings, East Kent 5.0 % - Boil 5 min

British Ale Yeast WLP005

2 weeks primary at 67F
2 weeks secondary at 67F
 
Jamil's recipes for his bitters all seem to have some victory in it. I am not entirely sure what it added to my last bitter, but it turned out pretty good.
 
So I will be brewing this one on either July 27 or August 10. The owner of my LHBS urged me to stay away from the EKG and substitute with Warrior instead. I was very hesitant but decided to go ahead with his advice. Also, instead of Challenger I got Northern Brewers instead. Here is the revised recipe:

Estimated Measurements:
SRM: 10.5 SRM
IBU: 41.7 IBUs
OG: 1.056 SG
FG: 1.016 SG
ABV: 5.3 %

85.7% 9 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter
7.1 % 12oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L
2.4 % 4 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 120L
4.8 % 8 oz Victory Malt

Add 8 qt of 134F water - 122F for 20 min
Add 6 qt of 210F water - 154F for 60 min
Decoct 4.5 qt and boil it - 168F for 10 min

1.00 oz Northern Brewer 9 % ------- Boil 60 min
1 Whirlfloc Tablet ---------------- Boil 15 min
0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient ----------- Boil 15 min
0.50 oz Fuggles 4.2 % ------------- Boil 15 min
0.25 oz Warrior 16.7 % ------------ Boil 15 min
0.75 oz Warrior 16.7 % ------------ Flame-Out
0.25 oz Fuggles 4.2 % ------------- Flame-Out

British Ale Yeast WLP005

2 weeks primary at 67F
2 weeks secondary at 67F


Now, he said to just swap out the EKG for Warrior with equal weight. I understand that this is a BITTER that I'm making, but that would put me at almost 60 IBU, way higher than I want it. Maybe he misunderstood my intention or I misunderstood his direction, but maybe I can get some advice here as well.

Above is the new recipe, but it is by no means set in stone. I really want to use the Northern brewers for this beer, and I also have the following in stock that is unclaimed for future recipes:

1 oz Sterling 7.2%
1 oz Fuggles 4 - 5.5%
1 oz Willamette 4.7%
2 oz Warrior 16.7%
2 oz Northern Brewer 8 - 10%
1 oz Chinook 11.8%


I am open to more advice. Thanks in advance.
 
So I will be brewing this one on either July 27 or August 10. The owner of my LHBS urged me to stay away from the EKG and substitute with Warrior instead. I was very hesitant but decided to go ahead with his advice. Also, instead of Challenger I got Northern Brewers instead.

Huh??? Has your LHBS guy ever tasted an ESB? Challenger and EKG would be a wonderful combination for an English ESB. Subbing Warrior is very suspect, at best.


Here is the revised recipe:

Estimated Measurements:
SRM: 10.5 SRM
IBU: 41.7 IBUs
OG: 1.056 SG
FG: 1.016 SG
ABV: 5.3 %

85.7% 9 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter
7.1 % 12oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L
2.4 % 4 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 120L
4.8 % 8 oz Victory Malt

Add 8 qt of 134F water - 122F for 20 min
Add 6 qt of 210F water - 154F for 60 min
Decoct 4.5 qt and boil it - 168F for 10 min

1.00 oz Northern Brewer 9 % ------- Boil 60 min
1 Whirlfloc Tablet ---------------- Boil 15 min
0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient ----------- Boil 15 min
0.50 oz Fuggles 4.2 % ------------- Boil 15 min
0.25 oz Warrior 16.7 % ------------ Boil 15 min
0.75 oz Warrior 16.7 % ------------ Flame-Out
0.25 oz Fuggles 4.2 % ------------- Flame-Out

British Ale Yeast WLP005

2 weeks primary at 67F
2 weeks secondary at 67F


Now, he said to just swap out the EKG for Warrior with equal weight. I understand that this is a BITTER that I'm making, but that would put me at almost 60 IBU, way higher than I want it. Maybe he misunderstood my intention or I misunderstood his direction, but maybe I can get some advice here as well.

Above is the new recipe, but it is by no means set in stone. I really want to use the Northern brewers for this beer, and I also have the following in stock that is unclaimed for future recipes:

1 oz Sterling 7.2%
1 oz Fuggles 4 - 5.5%
1 oz Willamette 4.7%
2 oz Warrior 16.7%
2 oz Northern Brewer 8 - 10%
1 oz Chinook 11.8%


I am open to more advice. Thanks in advance.

Northern Brewer is fine for the bittering although Challenger would be even better, IMO. The Warrior, a high alpha American hop, is out of place as a late addition for this brew, the original choice of EKG is far better but to each his own. Your revised IBU number is much better than your LHBS guy had suggested. It falls pretty well in the 3:4 IBU:OG ratio normally targeted for this brew.
 
Huh??? Has your LHBS guy ever tasted an ESB? Challenger and EKG would be a wonderful combination for an English ESB. Subbing Warrior is very suspect, at best.




Northern Brewer is fine for the bittering although Challenger would be even better, IMO. The Warrior, a high alpha American hop, is out of place as a late addition for this brew, the original choice of EKG is far better but to each his own. Your revised IBU number is much better than your LHBS guy had suggested. It falls pretty well in the 3:4 IBU:OG ratio normally targeted for this brew.

warrior is a great bittering hop. however, as previously mentioned warrior doesn't really belong in an ESB as a late addition. I would use EKG and fuggles.
cheers,
Brandon
 
funny. i just brewed an ESB with a very similar malt schedule (9# pale ale malt, 1# english crystal, 1/2# victory), but i went with a high alpha Willamette at 90 FWH and 10.

I second going with EKG or Fuggles, but i'm also partial to Willamette. Its similar enough to EKG and Fuggles. Post your tasting notes when you're done; i'd like to compare those to what i end up with, as i'm trying to tweak my ESB recipe.
 
Okay, so considering that I don't have any EKG, with my current hop supply:

1 oz Sterling 7.2%
1 oz Fuggles 4 - 5.5%
1 oz Willamette 4.7%
2 oz Warrior 16.7%
2 oz Northern Brewer 8 - 10%
1 oz Chinook 11.8%


What would be your suggestion? I'm thinking this might be more appropriate:

1.00 oz Northern Brewer @ 60
0.25 oz Fuggles @ 60
0.75 oz Fuggles @ 15
0.25 oz Northern Brewer @ 15


This will give me ~42 IBUs.

Like I said before, I was very suspect of the advice to use Warrior, and to clarify, I didn't have my original hop schedule available for him (only quantities) at the time and he wasn't clear with when I should add the Warrior.

I can postpone this batch until I can get some EKG but my grain is milled and sitting in a paper bag so I don't want to wait too long. If I pick up some EKG how should I schedule my hop additions?
 
Willamette is a Fuggles-derived variety. As you already have Fuggles in the mix, blending with the Willamette is probably the best route with what you have on hand. The Northern Brewer is OK but late additions aren't its strength. The Sterling could be tried as it has good flavor & aroma qualities and its Saaz like characteristics wouldn't overwhelm the Fuggles.
 
Okay, so considering that I don't have any EKG, with my current hop supply:

1 oz Sterling 7.2%
1 oz Fuggles 4 - 5.5%
1 oz Willamette 4.7%
2 oz Warrior 16.7%
2 oz Northern Brewer 8 - 10%
1 oz Chinook 11.8%


What would be your suggestion? I'm thinking this might be more appropriate:

1.00 oz Northern Brewer @ 60
0.25 oz Fuggles @ 60
0.75 oz Fuggles @ 15
0.25 oz Northern Brewer @ 15


This will give me ~42 IBUs.

Like I said before, I was very suspect of the advice to use Warrior, and to clarify, I didn't have my original hop schedule available for him (only quantities) at the time and he wasn't clear with when I should add the Warrior.

I can postpone this batch until I can get some EKG but my grain is milled and sitting in a paper bag so I don't want to wait too long. If I pick up some EKG how should I schedule my hop additions?

I think the hop additions you have listed above look good. The 0.25oz of Northern Brewer will give some complexity to the hop flavor. Brew on!
 
Willamette is a Fuggles-derived variety. As you already have Fuggles in the mix, blending with the Willamette is probably the best route with what you have on hand. The Northern Brewer is OK but late additions aren't its strength. The Sterling could be tried as it has good flavor & aroma qualities and its Saaz like characteristics wouldn't overwhelm the Fuggles.

+1. Willamette and Saaz.
 
How about this:

1.00 oz Northern Brewer @ 60
0.50 oz Fuggles @ 15
0.50 oz Sterling @ 15
0.50 oz Willamette @ 15
0.33 oz Fuggles @ Flame-Out
0.33 oz Sterling @ Flame-Out
0.33 oz Willamette @ Flame-Out


This gives ~42.9 IBUs. I really only had the Northern Brewers as a late addition for IBU adjustment, but figured this might be a little better. I originally would have like to get Challenger to begin with, but you've got to work with what you can get and the Challenger seemed to be either completely unavailable or out of stock from everywhere I typically buy from. Anyway, I like the new hop schedule but I am always open to criticism.
 
I brewed this one up today and I'm pretty happy with it overall. The boil went smoothly and it tasted great. I measured an OG of 1.062, which is obviously higher than i had anticipated, but I'm assuming it's due to the fact that my kettle is a little on the small size and I can only get ~4.5 gallon batches without topping off. So that puts me a little out of style, but oh well. Works for me. I will update in two weeks when I rack to secondary.
 
Man this beer is giving me a headache. It has a distinct flavor that I can't place... its not bad but definitely a little off. I will taste again when I bottle it and maybe it will clear up.
 
Fusel alcohols can give you a headache. If the fermentation temp was too high you will get more fusels. Fusels can make a beer taste like you added cheap vodka to it.
 
Haha nnooooooo not an actual headache. I meant like it is annoying me. Lol. There is something about the flavor that is bugging me. I can't place what it is but it is nothing like what I expected. Also, it is still very cloudy. I'm assuming this is from the yeast I used but even after 3 weeks it hasn't cleared at all. I will be bottling and tasting next weekend so hopefully by then everything balances out and it clears a little.
 
LOL! Which yeast did you use? Some yeast strains don't like to flocculate very well. If you can crash cool it that may help with the cloudiness.
 
That's the thing! It's White Labs British Ale! It is clearly identified as being highly flocculent so I don't know what the deal is. I crashed before racking to secondary as well so I am at a loss. I will get picture of it up here tomorrow. I don't really care if it is cloudy, I just PREFER it to be clear, but I am really just confused with this.
 
weird on the cloudy thing. I have the same issue with an ESB i made a while back, in that it just wont clear. Mine is in the keg, so i can add gelatin to fix it if i'm feelin froggy, but its weird that we both had the same issue with what are normally highly flocculent yeasts.
 
It actually looks a lot clearer than it did before now that I've taken a closer look (no pics yet... eh.). But I can only assume that maybe I fermented at too low a temperature (~67F)? Maybe it was just very sluggish and took a while to clear. But hell, it was in primary for two whole weeks and has been in secondary for a week already. From what I understand, this is not only very flocculent, but also ferments quickly which raises even more questions. I don't know... it is definitely finishing up finally so hopefully the final product turns out well.
 
Still a little cloudy and I didn't get anywhere near my target SG (target: 1.017, actual: 1.026) but it tasted fantastic and it had been in primary for two weeks and secondary for another two weeks so I bottled it up anyway. It is very floral and malty with big hop flavor. I can't wait for this one to be all carbed up. One thing that really bothered me about this one... when I was bottling it kept foaming up like it was carbonated. What could have caused this? I don't know if it was air or CO2 in the line but I am terrified it was air and all my beer will be stale and foul. Every single bottle was foaming a little and I lost a lot of beer in the process. I'm wondering if it was still actively fermenting and went nuts due to the agitation. Ugh I hope not.
 
I don't know what happened, but I'm tasting what I think is diacetyl and it is still very cloudy. It definitely hadn't finished fermenting. Tastes great though and it is nice and is lightly carbonated. I will try another tonight so I can give a good description from fresh memory.
 
I don't know how to style this is, but everyone that has tried it enjoys it. It is bitter and sweet with big hop flavor. Cloudy and probably full of diacetyl, but still very nice. I will make it again using the same recipe and hopefully the yeast behaves itself this time around and does what it is supposed to.
 
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