Another Perfect Game.....not quite
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Boerderij_Kabouter
Well-Known Member
Wow.... fail boat just came to town. Big time.
BraveSirRobin
Well-Known Member
That was just a downright terrible call. With two outs in the ninth inning of a perfect game, the pitcher should get the benefit of the doubt in any close play. This wasn't even a close play, the runner was clearly out.
Boerderij_Kabouter
Well-Known Member
I don't get how the other umps didn't chime in to overrule that. It wasn't even close. The umps do such a good job most of the time, how is it possible they ALL missed that so bad?
BadgerBrewer
Well-Known Member
someone should lose their job over that....
BraveSirRobin
Well-Known Member
It looks like they cleaned up his wiki page since I went on it last. Right after the game I googled him and it had his life span as "October 3, 1955 - June 2, 2010."
Seriously? Awful call, but that's part of what makes baseball so good.
BTW, classiest response ever by an athlete goes to Galaragga.
That is freaking funny.
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Beerrific
Well-Known Member
They interviewed him after over the phone on the Cincy/St. Louis game. He said all he could do was laugh about it. The look on his face after that call was just "you have to be f-ing s#!tting me!"
If I was the manager, they probably would have had to physically remove me from the field. Jim Joyce is a fairly well respected umpire, it seems he was convinced and did not ask for other umpires' help. I think if asked the 2nd or home ump could have made that call. Only thing I can think is that he did not think his foot was down on the bag. I am sure he feels terrible.
Jim Joyce does feel terrible. As much as I wanted to hate him, he handled it perfectly. Instant remorse and openness.
I still don't want instant replay (or more of it) in baseball.
I still don't want instant replay (or more of it) in baseball.
After seeing the game, at first I held my breath hoping it would have been an out, but didn't really know for sure right away - looked pretty close. Knowing Jim Leyland, he went out and did what he was supposed to do. He had a couple of instances a couple years ago that he didn't and he made a commitment to argue everything he can, so he did his job the way he was supposed to. No problems there.
After seeing the replay, I was pretty upset about how it turned out. But after the game, with the interviews, I have to say that Gallaraga is what I would truly consider a PROFESSIONAL athlete. Absolute class. He is now on my top shelf of favorite Tigers. Jim Leyland, as pretty typical, handled the post game interview very professionally. As upset as he is over what happened, he gave his respect to Jim Joyce. Even mentioned that he is already disappointed in himself (Joyce) and expressed a certain amount of regret.
So despite the bad call, I think I have a decent amount of respect for all the parties involved. I'm extremely disappointed that he didn't get the perfect game, but in the aftermath, I think the responsible parties did exactly what they should have done. No finger pointing, no bad mouthing. True role models if you ask me.
After seeing the replay, I was pretty upset about how it turned out. But after the game, with the interviews, I have to say that Gallaraga is what I would truly consider a PROFESSIONAL athlete. Absolute class. He is now on my top shelf of favorite Tigers. Jim Leyland, as pretty typical, handled the post game interview very professionally. As upset as he is over what happened, he gave his respect to Jim Joyce. Even mentioned that he is already disappointed in himself (Joyce) and expressed a certain amount of regret.
So despite the bad call, I think I have a decent amount of respect for all the parties involved. I'm extremely disappointed that he didn't get the perfect game, but in the aftermath, I think the responsible parties did exactly what they should have done. No finger pointing, no bad mouthing. True role models if you ask me.
BraveSirRobin
Well-Known Member
After watching replay after replay of it, Cabrera really shouldn't have ranged that far over to make the play. That was the second baseman's ball and the play was far closer than it had to be. Don't get me wrong, it's still an out and there is no excuse for the poor call in that situation, I'm just trying to look at it from a different perspective. With that said, I'd have done the same thing as Cabrera in that situation. With 8 2/3rds of a no hitter complete I'm going to get my glove on any ball that is close to me.
On replay it's clearly a bad call. At normal speed, it's much closer. However, umps make this call ALL THE TIME! This is not even that close, compared to MANY first base plays.
But Joyce fessed up right away and he knows how that call cost the pitcher notoriety and an extremely rare chance to have his name down in the history books.
I can't wait to see the reaction from the fans tonight, as the ump is slated to be behind the plate!
It's just a terrible shame. I would not want instant replays in baseball. Bad calls are pretty rare all in all. I would support a one-time league overrule on this game and give the ho-hitter to Galaragga. But it's not going to happen. The rule on the field stands.
But Joyce fessed up right away and he knows how that call cost the pitcher notoriety and an extremely rare chance to have his name down in the history books.
I can't wait to see the reaction from the fans tonight, as the ump is slated to be behind the plate!
It's just a terrible shame. I would not want instant replays in baseball. Bad calls are pretty rare all in all. I would support a one-time league overrule on this game and give the ho-hitter to Galaragga. But it's not going to happen. The rule on the field stands.
BraveSirRobin
Well-Known Member
I don't think it will be overturned, but it has happened in the past. The George Brett Pine-Tar homer got re-added to the scoreboard after the Royals submitted paperwork to the league. That was before Selig's time though.
I hope they don't reverse it and give him the perfect game. Yes, he should have had it but the ump messed up. Joyce took the blame with class, Galarraga displayed more class than anybody could have reasonably expected. Let it lie.
The call didn't affect the outcome of the game. It won't affect the outcome of the season. It would have put Galarraga in the history books, but you don't reverse something based on that. Hell, there have already been two perfect games this year after going 100 plus years with only 19 ever.
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Beerrific
Well-Known Member
I agree. You can't over turn it. If you do, then you are essentially saying that instant replay can be used if there is enough of a public outcry. The rules are the rules and you can selectively apply them.
A lot of umpires, especially at first, make these close calls based on sound. On this play, the ball was caught towards the top of the web of the glove. It is very possible that he could not hear it and had to rely on what he saw. It is much easier to hear to things happen very close together than see it.
BraveSirRobin
Well-Known Member
I just read that Jim Joyce is scheduled to work behind the plate in today's afternoon game between the Indians and Tigers. He's really going to have a tough outing, the fans are going to be ruthless with him.
Boerderij_Kabouter
Well-Known Member
After reading the reports today, I am impressed by the professionalism displayed by Joyce and Gallaraga. This incident could well be more famous than if he had gotten the PG. Yes it is unfortunate, but I still don't think that replay is worth it.
oceanselv
Well-Known Member
First of all the play cannot be over ruled nor can the game be protested. According to the rules of baseball only the umpire's interpretation of the rule is allowed to be reviewed when the game is protested. Out and safe, balls and strikes are the judgement of the umpire and are not subject to appeal. Yes the other umpires could have suggested the call was incorrect to Jim Joyce. However, he and he alone has the responsibility to make the call. Give the man credit for admitting his mistake and asking Galarraga for foregiveness. Also huge credit to the classiest response ever to Galarraga. He knows, Jim Joyce knows and the rest of the world knows he pitched a perfect game. Galarraga simply chose to rise above the hey look at me mentality and accept the apology.
Perhaps now Milt Pappas of the Cubs will quit whining about Bruce Froemming and his ball four call on a 3-2 pitch with 2 out in the ninth. The ball four call could have gone either way. The next batter made an out and Pappas had a no hitter instead of a perfect game. He was not robbed like Galarraga was.
Perhaps now Milt Pappas of the Cubs will quit whining about Bruce Froemming and his ball four call on a 3-2 pitch with 2 out in the ninth. The ball four call could have gone either way. The next batter made an out and Pappas had a no hitter instead of a perfect game. He was not robbed like Galarraga was.
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Beerrific
Well-Known Member
Yeah the rules are clear. But MLB has been known making stupid decisions and changing the rules to fit current public opinion.
Now, what would have been clever, the official scorer should have charged the first baseman or the pitcher with an error on that play preserving the no-hitter. That would have been funny.
This probably shows my bias, but the phantom tag of Jose Offerman in Game 4 of the 1999 ALCS was way more blatant than Joyce's screw up. Yeah, the Sox got killed, 9-2, and the call was in the ninth inning but it was in an important series.
Yeah, that looks really close.
Yeah, that looks really close.
dataz722
Well-Known Member
All I have to say is Jeffery Maier!
Still not as blatantly bad as the tag that never was. Knoblauch was never within 2 feet of Offerman.
dataz722
Well-Known Member
True, but still pretty damn blatant and much more impacting.
I'm not so sure. I think that most of the fans will have read or heard about how sorry Joyce was and I would not be surprised if they cheered him, or at least a mix of boos and cheers.
EDIT: Well, he's behind the plate, so expect the usual jeers and boos that a plate umpire receives.
BraveSirRobin
Well-Known Member
It's not so much when he's introduced that I think he'll be booed, more or less when he is either hesitant on a call or if he makes a close call that goes against the Tigers. I think it would be a class act if the fans gave him a standing ovation before the game though. He has been remorseful and there is no reason to jeer him anymore. He feels worse than anybody else about the situation. Last night I was livid with him, but I've really cooled off and realized it was just an honest mistake at an inopportune time. It would be cool if Armando brought out the lineup card to him today too.
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Beerrific
Well-Known Member
Jim Leyland said he would be.
Also saw that Bud Selig is considering overturning/overruling the call. I guess he has the authority. He is a buffoon, so he probably will.
Also heard that congress is launching a congressional investigation into whether there should be laws supporting the use of instant replay in professional sports.
That would just be the latest stupid move in a tenure littered with them.
Displaced MassHole
Well-Known Member
Not entirely true, Bud Selig can overrule the call "For the good of the game."
Bad calls are a part of baseball. Just like bad calls are a part of football, hockey, soccer, and just about everything else.
The guy made a goof and owned up to it, and I think we should all move on. This stupid thing is going to end up in the HoF anyways, even if it's not that it was on the books as a 3rd perfect game in a season of perfection, but this will be a very similar asterisk that will go on the books with the likes of Bonds and McGuire. In this instance, however, I think it's actually much COOLER to go in the books as "the guy who was robbed at first base" than just being one of the 3 who got perfect games this year.
I'm anti instant replay only in that I'm tired of sports (football) that use it to drag out the game. I tell you what...Flyers fans love that there's replay in hockey...that's how to do it with CLASS.
The guy made a goof and owned up to it, and I think we should all move on. This stupid thing is going to end up in the HoF anyways, even if it's not that it was on the books as a 3rd perfect game in a season of perfection, but this will be a very similar asterisk that will go on the books with the likes of Bonds and McGuire. In this instance, however, I think it's actually much COOLER to go in the books as "the guy who was robbed at first base" than just being one of the 3 who got perfect games this year.
I'm anti instant replay only in that I'm tired of sports (football) that use it to drag out the game. I tell you what...Flyers fans love that there's replay in hockey...that's how to do it with CLASS.
dataz722
Well-Known Member
There is no way in hell he will get cheers or an ovation. He screwed up and and apologized and should be somewhat forgiven. Bottom line though is that he screwed up and should not be getting praised for it. I find that just as stupid as "there is no loser" in kid's sports or games.
BraveSirRobin
Well-Known Member
I'm not saying he should be praised for the situation, I'm saying that the fans should applaud him to show their forgiveness. Darrell Evans got picked off of third base in a crucial playoff situation for the Tigers back in the 80's. Every baseball fan knows that it's a huge no-no to get picked off of third base, well Evans went ahead and did it. It's one of, if not the, biggest mistake that a player can make on the field. The fans gave him a standing ovation to show their forgiveness. I know he was a Tiger player and not an umpire, but the parallel's are there.
I don't know. He messed up. He admitted it, and was visibly very upset about it. I think that the fans who see this will cheer for his ability to man up and take the blame instead of using the crutch of his authority, like many in his position would.
dataz722
Well-Known Member
Ok, and I can respect him for being a man about it but the bottom line is that he still screwed up.
Yeah, but it's not like he's drilling for oil or something.,,
Lost in all this, of course, is that one of the game's top 10 players ever and a true gentleman, Ken Griffey Jr., retired yesterday. God, when he was in his prime he was the perfect example of a five-tool player.
