Smoked Beer with Extract?

I'm a big fan of Aecht Schlenkerla Rauchbie Smoked Bock.
I'd love to make something like it myself. Is there any way of making a smoked beer using Extract? Does anyone have any recipes?

I don't have a recipe, but I have a minor ingredient note to throw in:
Peated Malt and Rauch malt = very different ingredients.

Pretending this were an all-grain recipe, you would likely use 2-3 pounds of rauchmalt to get a fairly strong smoke presence. However, if you used peated malt, more than 2-3 ounces would get out of control.

Many people have called Schlenkerla a bit of a "bacon beer" in reference to its taste. So my hint, as to a recipe, would be that you will probably want to steep 2-3 ounces of crushed peated malt, I would say absolutely no more than 6 ounces, TOPS.

I say that you will want to use peated malt because trying to use the amount of rauchmalt necessary to get a good smoky presence will result in a couple pound grainbill, which approaches partial-mash territory, and you mentioned specifically extract, which leads me to infer extract plus steeping grains. If you were planning a partial-mash all along, then I'd go with the rauchmalt for the authentic route.

Now, hopefully someone else can help with the rest of the recipe - I've never done a bock, nor been a huge bock fan. (I likes my bitters and my porters too much. )

I just took a stab and googled, and evidently Rachmalt is steepable...So you could conceivably steep a couple pounds of it with the rest of your grains.

Chriso's right that they are 2 different malts, and peated is waaaay stronger, so you should make sure you know the different charcteristics/smokiness of both maults before you commit to it in a recipe..

I found this thread from last years, and hehehe. it's Chriso's!



https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/peat-vs-smoked-vs-rauch-48099/


Some good info in there.

Rauchmalt's not steepable. It's a base malt that needs to be mashed. Good news is that partial mashing is easy; if you can hold temperatures at 150°-155° for forty-five minutes, you're golden.

the_bird said:

Rauchmalt's not steepable.

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I beg to differ, according to this, it is. I googled before I posted that info.

Rauch Malt (German Grain) (Beer Brewing / Grain)

Rauch Malt (German Grain)
smokey flavor, use in Rauchbier (price/lb)

Purchase Rauch Malt (German Grain)

Can be used as steeping grains.

Purchase Rauch Malt (German Grain)

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It's even mentioned in the instructions for a brewhous extract w/grains kit.

http://www.thebrewhouse.com/resource_center/the_inner.htm

* For a smoked porter, use the basic recipe and add 8 oz. of any one of the following crushed grains: distiller's (peated) malt, German rauch malt, or home-smoked pale malt. Smoked porters take a little getting used to, but they have an elusive, delicious quality that makes them "more-ish." You can add more smoked malt, but remember that the smoky quality should complement the roast grains, not overwhelm them.

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Tell that to JZ and whoever wrote the book on smoked beers (Geoff Larson?) then. I've read and re-read these books, listened to JZ's podcasts on smoked beers, read JZ's book on all beer styles; it's the one beer in JZ's whole book where he says basically "you need to do a partial mash unless by some miracle of God you can find a rauchmalt extract." JZ's not infallible, but I trust him in these matters.

I mean, you might wash off alittle bit of some smoked flavor, but you're also going to end up with a crapton of unconverted starches.

For as easy as a partial mash is, why not do that?

I agree w/ both of you. The point I was making is merely IF you can do a PM, then use the real stuff. If you need to "fake it", so to speak, then do a small quantity of the peated.

@ the quote from the Brewhouse ... yeesh. I can't imagine 8 oz of peated malt in ANYTHING. Guh-ross.

the_bird said:

I mean, you might wash off alittle bit of some smoked flavor, but you're also going to end up with a crapton of unconverted starches.

For as easy as a partial mash is, why not do that?

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I agree it's better to PM it....and that all it would do in steeping would wash off some of the smokiness flavor as opposed to converting it to starches (I used it yesterday in a PM)....But I was just saying I checked online and came up that you could steep it if all you wanted to was to do it.... Kinda like victory, it's a dual purpose grain as well (and most people don't know that either, but I discovered that it was awhile ago.)

It's all good!

Our own wiki says it needs to be mashed (and I didn't write that)!

Never, ever, ever, EVER substitute peated malt for rauchmalt, even in small quantities. They are wholly, wholly different malts, wholly different characters. It's like saying, "hey, you like smoked salmon, how'd you like to chew on this cigar butt?"

I mean, I love smoked salmon, I love a cigar (not a cigar butt), but the flavors have absolutely nothing in common. Peated malt can work OK in VERY small quantities in a dark beer (Stone Smoked Porter), but it's terrible either in excess (more than a couple ounces) or when it's not used in a beer with a strong foundation.

...well, to add to argument's sake, if you're going for the Aecht-type smoked beer, you're looking at > 50% of your grainbill in Rauchmalt. 2-3 pounds won't do it. For the Ur-Bock, I think Aecht may even use 90% smoked malt. So, it is very much a mostly mashing/AG type recipe.

I have made a smoked Dunkel with only 26% Weyerman smoked malt and the smoke was still almost undetectable.

Now, the OP hasn't responded, but there's one other question.

You're not talking about smoke extract (liquid smoke), are you? I think we'd all be in agreement that would be a bad idea.

For the amount of smoke this kind of recipe requires, it is going to need a lot of rauchmalt (and absolutely ZERO peated malt). Not really do-able with just extract and steeping.

the_bird said:

Now, the OP hasn't responded, but there's one other question.

You're not talking about smoke extract (liquid smoke), are you? I think we'd all be in agreement that would be a bad idea.

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Yeah, some of those have vinegar and other things like preservatives and things with 3 syllable names in the ingredient list...

Big No-no....

Many years ago, I made a five gallon batch of stout where I steeped a pound or so of rauchmalt, and it came out pretty good. You can certainly get by steeping some rauchmalt, but I would never recommend trying a steep for 50% of your grain bill, no matter what the heck you were doing.

And, yeah, holy cow, keep Liquid Smoke very far away from beer!


TL

It's not the most important factor, but the effect of starch haze is going to be more pronounced in a bock and in a stock, where the beer is basically opaque.

TexLaw said:

Many years ago, I made a five gallon batch of stout where I steeped a pound or so of rauchmalt, and it came out pretty good. You can certainly get by steeping some rauchmalt, but I would never recommend trying a steep for 50% of your grain bill, no matter what the heck you were doing.

And, yeah, holy cow, keep Liquid Smoke very far away from beer!


TL

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Papazian Complete Joy of HB
Miscellaneous Ingred.
Liquid Smoke - Use it!
Do not use kind with vinegar or preservatives, salt, spices.
1 teaspoon/5 gal = well perceived smoke flavor

Here is my Haddon House brand Liquid Smoke Ingredients list -
Water
Hickory Smoke Concentrate
Polysorbate 80

Polysorbate 80 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is classified as an emulsifier. I don't have any idea what the rest means, but I don't see it described as a preservative.

I'm making a Bock and then a Porter with the stuff. Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!

Sounds interesting.
Let us know how it turns out.

PseudoChef said:

...well, to add to argument's sake, if you're going for the Aecht-type smoked beer, you're looking at > 50% of your grainbill in Rauchmalt. 2-3 pounds won't do it. For the Ur-Bock, I think Aecht may even use 90% smoked malt. So, it is very much a mostly mashing/AG type recipe.

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Their website is kinda messy due to the translation, but somewhere there it says their beers use "up to 100% rauchmalt". I've tried 3lbs in a PM and it wasn't smokey enough in my opinion. It certainly didn't compare to Aecht.

I've actually used Liquid Smoke successfully in a 5 liter minikeg. I only used 1/4 tsp right into the keg when I added the priming sugar.

It was a bit strong the first 6 months of so, but really mellowed afterward.

Some LS has vinegar, etc., but the brand I used listed only one ingredient.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-liquid-smoke.htm

What Is Liquid Smoke? : Tastes more substantial than it sounds - CHOW

Since Papazian recommends 1 teaspoon, I am surprised that you say it was strong with 1/4 t.

I really like the flavor of LS, but I don't want to overdo it. Also, this will be for others to share.

Would you say, homebrewer 99, that any more LS would be objectionable in a 5 gal batch?

I think I may use 1/2 t, closer to your suggestion, since you have 1st hand experience, .vs a book.

You misunderstood me...I said 1/4 tsp in 5 liters, not 5 gals.

Since a "normal" batch is 19 liters I would have to say 1 tsp would be perfect for a 5 gal batch. :rockin:

I had a bottle of Aechte (Genuine) Schlenkerla Rauchbier the other night. I know I told myself to take notes, but I didn't. I have a couple more remaining so I will take notes and try to include them in an upcoming batch of Rauchbier.

Just to rub it in, the "Schlenkerla" is in Bamberg, Germany...I lived/worked in Bamberg for 5 years. :rockin:

For my two cents, I think if you really like Schlenkerla, you should not try to clone it with an extract recipe. You will surely disappointed. I hate to be a downer but smoke flavor, IMHO, is not something to be trifled with. Smoked beer done badly is some of the worst stuff ever. Doing a partial mash with a lot of rauch malt would do it, but if you can't do that, I would not go the steeping and all extract route.

Sorry, but bad beer is just that, whether you made it or not. If you don't yet have the capabilities to PM, I would wait on this dream.

Cheers, sorry to be a downer.

Boerderij Kabouter said:

For my two cents, I think if you really like Schlenkerla, you should not try to clone it with an extract recipe. You will surely disappointed. I hate to be a downer but smoke flavor, IMHO, is not something to be trifled with. Smoked beer done badly is some of the worst stuff ever. Doing a partial mash with a lot of rauch malt would do it, but if you can't do that, I would not go the steeping and all extract route.

Sorry, but bad beer is just that, whether you made it or not. If you don't yet have the capabilities to PM, I would wait on this dream.

Cheers, sorry to be a downer.

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Well, I agree with you 100%!!:rockin:

My Rauchbier was with an extract that was just slightly oxidized. Adding the smoke to it improved it by covering up the fault.

IIRC, I left it in the keg for 11 months before trying it. Once opened it disappeared quickly.

Wots a liter?

Oh, I remember now. There are 6.6 of 'em under the hood of my 1979 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am!

Mmmmm. Liters. Aahhhhgggh.