Consecration kit from MoreBeer

TNGabe said:

More like 1 gram.

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Can anybody else confirm this and/or add any additional info to this? I'm getting ready to bottle tonight, and want to make sure I put the right amount of Wine Yeast in the bottling bucket, along with the priming sugar.

Also, after I bottle the beer, is it best to let it carbonate at room temp, or can I (or should I) stick it in a fridge?

thanks!

Does anyone know what volume of CO2 that RR carbonates their Consecration to?

I cant seem to find that information anywhere.

Thanks,

Chuck

I used ECY Bugfarm 5 on mine, tasted it a few weeks ago ~10 months old and has been on the currents for 6 months. Gravity was 1.014, too damn high, but didnt come across as sweet at all, slightly astringent, tart, light to medium body. Was very drinkable still, I drank a 6 oz glass easily.

I would like it to be much more dry, I am going to add some dregs shortly and see if things dry out at all.

Coff said:

I used ECY Bugfarm 5 on mine, tasted it a few weeks ago ~10 months old and has been on the currents for 6 months. Gravity was 1.014, too damn high, but didnt come across as sweet at all, slightly astringent, tart, light to medium body. Was very drinkable still, I drank a 6 oz glass easily.

I would like it to be much more dry, I am going to add some dregs shortly and see if things dry out at all.

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Any thoughts on the high gravity? I've not sampled my bug farm batch, it's coming up on 8 months. I do remember Joe telling me there would be a big change between 10 months and 12 months, but 1.014 is still surprisingly high.

TNGabe said:

Any thoughts on the high gravity? I've not sampled my bug farm batch, it's coming up on 8 months. I do remember Joe telling me there would be a big change between 10 months and 12 months, but 1.014 is still surprisingly high.

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I dont know if its maybe the zante currants or what but Ive used Bugfarm 4-5 times and its always been dry after 3-6 months. I'm a bit stumped, Ive done bigger beers then this with Bugfarm before and still had high attenuation. Not that this is a sign or anything but there isnt even any positive pressure in the airlock, so I really dont think much is happening.

I am going to add some additional bugs, and maybe a small 3711 slurry to help dry it out.

Is there a slight sickness to the beer at all? I've found that sometimes even after 8 months with my ECY beers I end up with a slightly higher viscosity and that throws off the hydrometer. My imperial stout right now is a perfect example of a thrown off hydrometer. I measured gravity two weeks ago or so and it was 1.032ish. Then when I racked to the barrel one of them went back up to 1.041 obviously the rope is throwing it off. Even a very slight amount can have an effect on the gravity. When the rope is thin enough it's tough to discern whether its rope or body especially when it's not stringy snot like I subjected a friend to on Saturday. He almost puked because I handed him gelatinous blob of imperial stout in a glass and said here taste this. I turned around to him displaying an awful wretching face with strings of stout snot strung between his lips and the taster glass.

It didnt seem viscous to me at all, I shared it with a friend and he didnt notice anything like that from the notes he sent me. I'll add some dregs and taste it again in 2 months.

Jipper,

You said too much brett did you add it with the currants before the lacto and pedio. do you think it would be advantageous to do a starter for the brett and add it at the same time or just leave less time in between the two pitches . what would you do different than last time to get the RR flayva
what about soaking the cubes in Cab for a couple of days?

Jipper said:

I just hooked up my keg that was brewed last June and it came fairly close. A little too much oak, added more currants than the recipe suggested which was a mistake, and not quite the same sour (more brett, less lacto than the real deal). The aroma however is almost identical, and the alcohol content is almost spot on (calculated mine to 9.92% - real deal is 10.00%).

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Thanks,
Bells

Jipper,
Couple of questions for you. You had mentioned you had kegged. Did you do anything prior to kegging, such as add a wine strain of yeast or any priming sugar to your keg, or did you simply force carbonate?

I have been working this recipe since November of 2012. My secondary currently sits within my fermentation chamber holding a tight 70 degrees. I did get a light pellicle to form in late July and it continues to be present today.

Now I am looking to the future for finishing advise. My plan was to force carbonate then bottle for aging. However, now I am hearing more and more individuals adding wine yeast and going straight to bottle for conditioning.

Thus, I am looking for advise to devise a plan to finish the beer. It is sad, I have read this post multiple times and no one seems to have a quantitative plan of finishing this delight, especially with the time involved!

Thus, looking for any advise from you or anyone else for that matter that can be given.
Force carbonate? Then bottle?
Add wine yeast and priming sugar to keg, condition then bottle transfer for further conditioning?
Add wine yeast and priming sugar and bottle condition?

Anyone?

I plan to add wine yeast and bottle condition, as is done in the original. What is it youre trying to gain by counterpressure filling the beer?

Well, I plan to ad the wine yeast and bottle condition. I'm just getting ready to ad the oak and let that sit until I'm satisfied with the taste.

I have two things that I am wondering about - 1) How many are adding wine to the fermenter with the oak; 2) Having never had the actual beer, what sort of carbonation level are we really shooting for? 2.5 vol, 3vol, 3+vol?

Mine's been in the carboy for a bit over a year and is down to about 1.002. Nice and tart, mild brett notes... or just plain good.

I just bottled my MoreBeer Consecration kit after 13 months of fermenting and aging. FG = 1.005. I used Rockpile yeast and 4oz corn sugar for bottle carbonation. It tasted and smelled great! Only a few weeks to go till tasting the final product after over a year of waiting....

I had a friend lift the dagger image from the RR bottle label and I etched it onto my bottle caps with the laser cutter we have at work. Turned out great! Picture attached.

-Carl

I like the caps Carl, nice idea.

What is the best temperature to store the bottled beer in after bottling with the corn sugar / wine yeast, while we wait for carbonation?

70-75F for a week or two should do the trick. I throw my bottle conditioning bottles into my ferment fridge and set my controller to 75 for two weeks and I have never had a beer fail to carb in that time.

brewed 13 gallons of this today. Brew day went well, missed the gravity by a little 1.071 so i tossed in 1/2# corn sugar that i had left over. feel good about it. next year about this time i hope to be enjoying this great sour.

I got one of those kits last summer. Brewed last weekend August '12. Bottled it mid-September this year.
The only thing I wasn't able to get with the high mash point - it stuck around 153, no matter what I did. Had an enormously active fermentation, racked to secondary and pitched the bug blend at about a month, maybe 6 weeks after brew day (don't have my notes in front of me.)I added the currents when I racked it, then added the oak around early August when I tasted it and it was almost where I wanted it.
I added a dash of S05 when bottling, and gave it a month in bottles before tasting. I'm extremely happy with how it came out, nice sour factor without being too much.
I do plan on brewing this again, though with the info sheet that came with it, I don't have to get the kit again.

Is there a consensus on what volume to carb this beer to? I'll probably shoot for 3vols but just curious what others are going for.

Coff said:

Is there a consensus on what volume to carb this beer to? I'll probably shoot for 3vols but just curious what others are going for.

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I recall one one of the interviews with Vinnie where he said he'd dialed back carb to balance acidity. Not sure he gave a figure and if so, I can't remember. I think it was his most recent Sunday session, from '11 maybe.

TNGabe said:

I recall one one of the interviews with Vinnie where he said he'd dialed back carb to balance acidity. Not sure he gave a figure and if so, I can't remember. I think it was his most recent Sunday session, from '11 maybe.

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Cool, I'll dig that up. Thanks for the tip.

I brewed this kit early summer of this year. Racked to secondary in early July with currants and Wyeast Roeselare Belgian Sour Blend 3763. Secondary fermentation was pretty active for 3-4 weeks.

Question for anyone: It's been in secondary about 3.5 months and almost half of the currants are still floating, is that typical?

Instructions didn't say anything about racking again, but I can't imagine that I should. Thanks for any tips or observations from others!

Cheers!
djturner

I did 2 batches one they floated for 14 months, the other 9 months

Its been 8 months and all of the currants are still floating in mine.

10 months here and still floating.

This is my first sour. Made in January. Pitched primary Belgian yeast, then in February pitched Brett (Lambicus), after 2 months pitches the roselaere blend in April with the currants. I flushed the headspace with CO2 and have continued to do so nearly every month. Never really saw anything going on. The currants sank mostly after a few months, then began to float again. This past week, it seems a white mold was growing on 1 currant. Now it seems to be growing on several. I think I know the answer, but I will ask anyway- this is a good thing, yes? Seems obvious, but again just worried cuz I don't know what to expect.

It should have had a pretty big pelicle by now, but I would assume the co2 kept it from developing. From my understanding, a little oxygen is need for the bugs to develop properly. Which is the reason a barrel works so well.

11 months and mine are all sunk.

This thread has been very helpful. I snagged a kit last week during what appeared to be about a 10 minute window of availability. I brewed this morning and now have a long wait ahead of me. I'm probably going to start another batch in about six months since I assume I'm going to love this and want to make sure I've got a steady supply going.

I'll be brewing a Berliner Weisse next weekend and a Rodenbach Grand Cru after that. I also need to get a Tart of Darkness kit.

10.5 months in. Currants still floating. And pellicle forming. Yes I agree my flushing with co2 prob kept pellicle at bay. Prob gonna flush it with more co2 cuz it's obvious now that O2 is inside. Thinking of adding the oak soaked in Cabernet soon. Gotta assume by now has good sour level.

mhot55 said:

Gotta assume by now has good sour level.

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Don't assume the sourness level is right, taste it so you know!

I tasted mine every 2 months or so to keep an eye on how things were coming along. It was very interesting how it changed. When you add the oak, increase the frequency to every 2-4 weeks.

That reminds me, I should taste my Tart of Darkness clone!

For sour beers like this, how long would you normally want to keep the beer on oak if you are using cubes? Just depends on oak flavor I know it comes down to, but usually months (like 1-2? 4-6?, etc)?

Thanks!

mhot55 said:

10.5 months in. Currants still floating. And pellicle forming. Yes I agree my flushing with co2 prob kept pellicle at bay. Prob gonna flush it with more co2 cuz it's obvious now that O2 is inside. Thinking of adding the oak soaked in Cabernet soon. Gotta assume by now has good sour level.

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Just leave it alone. The bugs will take care if any excess o2. The pelicle almost by design forms a barrier against the beer and o2. Remember "don't worry..."

I knew once I typed "gotta have nice sour by now " would get a response. Well, I'm an ass. I didn't test it when I knew I should. And I added the oak anyway. What is the theory about adding the oak- from what I have seen it was after desired sourness is attained. But if that's when u throw the oak in for a month, wouldn't it get past the desired sourness? Another question- do I have to do anything to halt the souring or when I get there just bottle, carb and store?

Hmm.. Just had some last week, the real stuff!

Going to brew this soon for sure. $17-22 per bottle is criminal.

From what I tasted, the oak is not very appreciable, at least to my palate. The sour twang is definitely there.

TD

Brewed mine 9/23/2012 IIRC, this was what it looked like to day:











Going to Fl for a few days next week and it should be ready to keg when we get back! I have two bottles of RR Consecration left to compare it against, can't wait!

TrickyDick said:

Hmm.. Just had some last week, the real stuff!

Going to brew this soon for sure. $17-22 per bottle is criminal.

From what I tasted, the oak is not very appreciable, at least to my palate. The sour twang is definitely there.

TD

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The real stuff was $14.99 in San Diego, in June. I didn't think that was terrible...

hllywd said:

The real stuff was $14.99 in San Diego, in June. I didn't think that was terrible...

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I could only find it at the 17-22 mark. That was in a bar. I think the $17 was on a sale. The $22 I thought was pretty steep.
Nice looking pellicle there. Looks like a winner!

This is going to be one of my next brews before the years end.

TD

So I'm planning to brew this on the 25th this month.

few questions.... edited...

#1) I have some old hops up to 5-6 years old, stored in the freezer, some in mylar bags. Are these going to be useful (Heard Vinnie talking about stale hops) for possible late additions? these are 2008 harvest year - Styrian Goldings. The bag has air in it so its not been well sealed.

#2) Vinnie was talking about in that clip that was posted to this thread about using malt bills tailored to the type of wine barrels and flavors he wanted. I'm thinking using some chocolate malt in addition to the special B and carafa (I'm going to use III) in equal proportions.

#3) thinking about pitching onto my old yeast cake from the Tripel I brewed (WLP530), but Vinnie talks about underpitching by half! Not sure how much slurry to use. brewed the tripel on Oct 20th. I pitched on the 21st, and added candi syrup on the 23rd and it was basically done by the 26th. I bumped temp to 73 for a week to ensure complete fermentation and then cold crashed it to 50 on 11/3 (been a bit over a week there). If Its going to be two more weeks before I brew this I was curious about how much of the yeast slurry to use. 2 cups? I don't have access to a microscope or special equipment to test for viability. I supposed I could harvest some yeast from the conical and build a starter.... not sure what to do - me being cheap and all on the yeast issue. (aside - hard to get high quality yeast in the heat of Florida middle-of-nowhere where I live without paying a buttload for an insulated shipping box and overnight shipping - think 60-80$$ just for yeast)

#4) for secondary fermentation I have some vessel options. As I understand, its all going to be essentially permanently contaminated with the bugs. I have some older plastic buckets. These may permit some oxygen into the beer which I hear is necessary for the bugs to thrive and might be better than glass, in approximating the conditions of a wine barrel. Other options include plastic "better bottle" carboys, and also regular glass carboys. Leaning toward the bucket option.

#5) The pitch rate for the Brett, according the Vinnie interview, 1 million cells per ml. That's a TON of Brett it seems. According to my calculations: If I brewed 12 gal of wort, expecting 10.5 gal in the secondary , that's 40,000ml approximately. Thats 40 Billion cells. Per White Labs, each vial of Brett contains between 2.5 and 4.0 Billion cells. Assuming ideal conditions, I'd need 10 vials (16 under worst conditions) to achieve the purported pitch rate... I'm thinking I won't have ideal conditions. I'm thinking if I pitched 14 vials, I could hit the 5:1:1 ratio however. Just seem like a LOT of brett to me. For the roselare blend, how many of those packs will I need for this?

#6) For the secondary and bottling - any suggested sources for the Brett and Bugs and Wine yeast to add? There has been some debate on the Brett species to use. What's recommended? Also, what volumes of CO2 for bottling?

Thanks!

TD

I'm not going to answer all of your questions, but I'll give my advice on your vessel. There has been research done on o2 permeability of the main fermentation vessels. Basic summation: use a better bottle for some permeability but not too much for long term fermentation with sour bugs. Buckets are too permeable and glass carboys aren't permeable enough. With respect to the Brett pitching rate, that seems extremely high.

Now my question for those with the kit, what for do the currents come in? Fresh? Dried?

Thanks

Also, with respect to you told hops, I think those will be perfect