First Wort Hopping

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DavidinTexas

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I recently ran across this idea and decided to give it a try.

I was working with Lil' Sparky's Nut Brown Ale (a house favorite) and decided to add the hops as the wort was transferring from the cooler to the brew kettle.

Most write ups for this technique say that the bitterness will be increased some but will be smoother. I had a hard time putting that thought together in my mind - but that is exactly how I would describe it having now tasted the results.

All and all I liked it - but I do plan to cut the hops some (may be 25%) before trying this again. This would, of course, be of no value for the aroma hops.

Has anyone else experimented with this technique?

What were your results?

Thanks
David
 
I love FWH, I have been doing it on pretty much all of my recipes for a while now.

But you have it backwards. The bitterness is much less than a 60 min addition, many people calculate it as a 20-25 min addition as far as IBUs go.
 
It seemed more bitter to my taste (and those in the house) but smoother - I really like the smoother part and will try again this weekend with a cream ale.

Being able to "tune" the beer to be just as you like it is a big part of the fun. Sharing is the big reason for this page.

Thanks for the encouragement.
David
 
Does anyone have a link to any "scientific" papers regarding this technique? I know there are tons of people that generally agree on the final results of FWH, I just want to see some science.:mug:
 
Does anyone have a link to any "scientific" papers regarding this technique? I know there are tons of people that generally agree on the final results of FWH, I just want to see some science.:mug:

Conjecture, FTW!
 
I've done it before a few times but I usually treat them as an extra addition - to add some more bitterness to a recipe. So if you were to REPLACE a hop addition with FWH, which one do you replace?
 
I've done it before a few times but I usually treat them as an extra addition - to add some more bitterness to a recipe. So if you were to REPLACE a hop addition with FWH, which one do you replace?

I always FWH in place of the 60m addition (for 60m boils)
 
I've tried it both ways, using the FWH for the 60 minute and as a separate addition. The former was much more enjoyable although adding both wasn't bad, just a tad bit bitter. It seems that the colder it's served, the more you notice it and it mellows a bit as the glass sits.
 
Cool, thanks. I think I'll try that on my next brew. So does it work better with darker beers or lighter beers? Or does it matter?

I do it for all of my beers. Started out with an ESB (because they're actually not supposed to be harshly bitter, despite the name) and just adopted it into practice thereafter.
 
I love FWH, I have been doing it on pretty much all of my recipes for a while now.

But you have it backwards. The bitterness is much less than a 60 min addition, many people calculate it as a 20-25 min addition as far as IBUs go.

Actually, that's not my experience at all. It gives a bit more bitterness (IBUs), but in a very smooth bitterness way. It's not at all comparable to a 20 minute IBU addition.
 
Actually, that's not my experience at all. It gives a bit more bitterness (IBUs), but in a very smooth bitterness way. It's not at all comparable to a 20 minute IBU addition.

This is my experience as well. I simply replace the 60m bittering addition, or whatever the first hop addition is...with FWH.
 
Does anyone have a link to any "scientific" papers regarding this technique? I know there are tons of people that generally agree on the final results of FWH, I just want to see some science.:mug:

In Principles of Brewing Science by George Fix, He talks about the "Brauwelt" study, published by (Preis and Mitter,1995). Two breweries with professional tasting panels compared a late-hopped beer vs. a first-wort-hopped beer. The sensory panels said the FWH beer had "a finer and rounded hop aroma" with a "finer and more pleasant" bitter in spite of the higher iso-alpha-acid concentration. The professional tasting panels prefered the FWH 8-3 at the first brewery, and 11-1 at the second brewery. One interesting thing about this study was it was done with Pilsners.

I just quickly summed up a little of what Fix wrote here, there's alot more in the book. I've never tried FWH, but it does seem very interesting that the study was only done with pilsners, and in a pilsner you wouldn't really want much late hop aroma I would think.
This book has got a ton of good info in it, so get it if you don't have it.
 
Has anyone tried doing FWH while doing a brew in the bag method instead of using a mashtun?

Yes. In both cases you hop before the boil starts. Doesn't mean you add them to the mash or anything. Just after you're done sparging or in your case, pulling the bag out of the kettle, you'd throw hops in instead of waiting for an official "boil" to begin.
 
I've done it before a few times but I usually treat them as an extra addition - to add some more bitterness to a recipe. So if you were to REPLACE a hop addition with FWH, which one do you replace?

I would agree that this would seem to replace the one with the long boil (usually 60 minutes) which I understand adds the bitterness. The "short" boil adds the "hop" flavor but much less bitterness. So, boiling the "flavoring" hop would drive out most of the flavor and leave only the bitterness.

Is that they way you guys see this?
 
Yes. The bittering comes from compounds that require time to break down, thus longer boil times increase bitterness. Mid-point additions are for flavor as the hops break down slightly but don't lose their flavor. The late additions add aroma.
 
I'm very familiar with early and late hop additions re: flavor vs. bitterness (been brewing for close to 10 years now) but I've always heard that 60 minutes seems to be the point of diminished returns (i.e. less bitterness the longer you boil past that, not more), but must admit I've never seen the science on this. I've just always been a bit confused on FWH because of so many differing opinions re: flavor vs. bitterness when REPLACING a hop addition with them. I've heard people say you should replace the flavor addition but now you guys are saying replace the early addition. As I mentioned earlier, I've done several beers with FWH but those were recipes I formulated from scratch (one which is killer btw), I just never REPLACED a hop addition with them (should have clarified). Since you guys have experimented I think I'll try replacing the 60 minute addition on my next brew.

Thanks, y'all.
 
I do FWH at all my batches. Few days ago I brewed dunkelweizen and for the 1st time I added FWH as only hop addition, just to see what it tastes like. I am very courious about results.
 
jkendal said:
I'm very familiar with early and late hop additions re: flavor vs. bitterness....
I think Palmer stated that late hop additions should be replaced for FWH, something about 30%.. correct me if I"m wrong.
 
I recently did some FWH with some Simcoe and though I don't use Simcoe much and it's still conditioning, what I've tried already was very nice! Smoother than I would have thought. I used it as an addition to my 60 minute instead and did both the FWH and 60 minute. Not sure it made that much difference but I'm going to do this more often in the future and see where it takes me.
 
Very cool concept that I had not heard of. I think I'll give it a shot in about ten minutes when I sparge the Octoberfest I'm mashing right now.
 
My last two brews I used FWH.

One was an american wheat and the other was a cascadian dark ale. I used the method of cutting down the 60 minute addition and replacing the lost IBU's with a FWH of the hops I was going to use in the flavoring and aroma additions. Both beers turned out very smooth with good bitter flavor. Admittedly, not brewing these without the FWH, I don't know that they wouldn't be just as good.

As an example, in my CDA I used this hop schedule for a total of 70 IBUs (Estimated IBUs from beersmith).

0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - First Wort 9.1 IBUs
0.30 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - First Wort 8.5 IBUs
0.30 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 12.9 IBUs

0.30 oz Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min 12.7 IBUs

0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min 6.4 IBUs
0.30 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min 5.9 IBUs
0.30 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min 9.0 IBUs

0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min 1.7 IBUs
0.30 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min 1.5 IBUs
0.30 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min 2.3 IBUs

0.75 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min 0.0 IBUs
0.40 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min 0.0 IBUs
0.40 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min 0.0 IBUs

0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Day Hop 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days 0.0 IBUs
0.30 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days 0.0 IBUs

When I brew it again I think I'm going to move the 30 minute down to 20, but that's the topic of a whole new thread.
 
I guess I'm out of the norm here. I FWH all my beers unless there's a very specific style or clone reason NOT to do so. However, I simply shift the 60min addition to FWH and leave my others (20-0min) the same.

Since I've begun this practice, I've gotten positive comments on my hop character from friends, pro brewers, and BJCP National judges. I don't want a tongue-raping IPA but a firm bitterness and complex, delicious hop flavors and aromas!
 
I have used FWH as my only hop addition on several beers. These were all using recipes that had 60, 20, & 5 min additions. I liked the FWH only batches the best. I have tried Saaz, Magnum, Northern Brewer, & EKG as FWH only. Styles I have tried FWH only are: Cream, Amber, Blonde & Brown Ales.
 
I have done my last 3 brews using FWH. Two of them are still fermenting.

My understanding going into it was that the FWH addition was supposed to be made up of half what you were going to use for flavor/aroma hops. As there was some sort of "magic" that happened when you soak hops at around 150f allowing the flavor compounds to permanently bond with something in the wort which prevents them (the flavors) from being boiled off.

The one I've already tasted is a kristallweizen
10g
10lbs 2-row
8lbs white wheat
1.25oz hallertau mittelfruh 4.5% (leaf) FWH
Wyeast 3333
O.G. 1.048
F.G. 1.006

It's a super light, super clear (I filter it), refreshing beer that taste remarkably like a light lager to my poker buddies. The bitterness was more noticeable than previous batches, but the beer was also a lot less sweet. I used pure O2 for the first time when I made this batch and the F.G. was considerably lower then previous batches. But the bitterness, only 11IBUs, was noticeable and very smooth. I'm encouraged about FWH.

On the second one I did something a little different. This one is a brown porter.

10g
17lbs 2-row
1.5lbs Crystal 60
1lb Chocolate malt
8oz Black patent
2oz hallertau mittelfruh 4.5% (leaf) FWH
2oz hallertau mittelfruh 4.5% (leaf) 30min
Wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire

So there is no flavor or aroma addition, but based on what I read I'm expecting some hop flavor from the FHW addition. The 30min addition was just to get the IBUs where I wanted them, I store the leaf hops in 2oz portions. I'm excited to see how this one turns out, but this is a completely revised porter recipe for me so I can't compare it to my previous batches.

The most recent batch is an ESB, my most brewed recipe.

10g
18lbs Maris Otter
1lb Crystal 60
8oz Biscuit Malt
8oz Caravienne
1oz EKG (UK) 5.1% (leaf) FWH
2oz Northern Brewer 10% (leaf) 60min
1oz EKG (UK) 5.1% (leaf) 5min
Wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire

So I took out what I would have used as a flavor addition and used it as a FWH and left my normal 60min addition of Norther Brewer as is. I'm expecting more bitterness but also some flavor from the FWH.

Hope it turns out well.
 
Any of you guys ever done FWH on an extract brew? I have done some reading on here but haven't found a ton of people who have done this. What would be the best way to mimic this with extract brewing?

Steep the grains and then add the FWH and wait a specified period before moving on with boil
While steeping the grains add the FWH
Steep grains and add part of the extract, add then FWH, then wait a specified period before moving on with boil? (FYI, i always use a late addition)

thanks
 
I would just add the hops when you pull the steeped grains out. I'm assuming it still takes you a few minutes to get the boil going after that point, right? The idea is to have the hops in for longer than just the 60 minutes or whtaever the boil time is, and to have them in at a slightly lower initial temp
 
I would just add the hops when you pull the steeped grains out. I'm assuming it still takes you a few minutes to get the boil going after that point, right? The idea is to have the hops in for longer than just the 60 minutes or whtaever the boil time is, and to have them in at a slightly lower initial temp

I brew outside and steep at between 145-150. So to go from that to over 200 it'll take a little time, but not as much time as it takes to transfer to the boil kettle for you all grain guys.

Let me ask it a different way. What temperature is your wort when you transfer it to the kettle, and how long does it take?

Another thought comes to mine, since I will get better hop utilization from my FWH due to having a lower gravity wort, should I cut back the FWH amount?
 
I brew outside and steep at between 145-150. So to go from that to over 200 it'll take a little time, but not as much time as it takes to transfer to the boil kettle for you all grain guys.

Let me ask it a different way. What temperature is your wort when you transfer it to the kettle, and how long does it take?

Another thought comes to mine, since I will get better hop utilization from my FWH due to having a lower gravity wort, should I cut back the FWH amount?

Perhaps a little, but I never do. The smoothing out of the bitterness takes care of any additional bitterness, of course my gravity is much higher. You could experiment with reducing it a little. My formulas say roughly 10% difference in utilization between a "just higher than water" gravity (1.005) and a 1.047 gravity at time of FWH.

I run my first wort off into BK and start heating immediately. By the time the second runnings finish going into the kettle I add the hops. At this point the temperature is about 180 I'd estimate. It takes me about 10-15 minutes to get to a boil from there.
 
Xpertskir said:
I brew outside and steep at between 145-150. So to go from that to over 200 it'll take a little time, but not as much time as it takes to transfer to the boil kettle for you all grain guys.

Let me ask it a different way. What temperature is your wort when you transfer it to the kettle, and how long does it take?

Another thought comes to mine, since I will get better hop utilization from my FWH due to having a lower gravity wort, should I cut back the FWH amount?

I usually FWH at around 150F or a little higher, and I'm boiling maybe 20 min later. Not sure you go much quicker than that....

As for compensating amounts, you'll probably have to experiment a little b/c everyone's system is different. I'd cut maybe 10% for starters.
 
Just to clarify, not sure if I'm doing true FWH because I add the hops once all of my wort is in the kettle, but before the boil has started (wort temp in the 170-180 range)
 
I usually FWH at around 150F or a little higher, and I'm boiling maybe 20 min later. Not sure you go much quicker than that....

As for compensating amounts, you'll probably have to experiment a little b/c everyone's system is different. I'd cut maybe 10% for starters.

are you literally adding to the first runnings or are you waiting until all runoff is in kettle like I do? Just curious.
 
Yooper said:
Actually, that's not my experience at all. It gives a bit more bitterness (IBUs), but in a very smooth bitterness way. It's not at all comparable to a 20 minute IBU addition.

I agree with yooper, it is not like a 20 minute addition. I use it in place of all my 60 minute additions and even in my IPA recipes still with a good bitterness. It does make it smoother though.
 
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