Darnit, I just suck at this.

My efficiencies with all grain seem to be wildly inconsistent.

5 1/2lb 2 Row
5 lb Vienna
1 lb Crystal 10L
1/2 lb Carapils

I'm using a cooler with a braid for my mash tun.

I crushed my grains at the store. Heated eight gallons of water to 160 for a 2:1 mash ratio. I added my salts based on my city water report, the EZ Water Calc spreadsheet, and Palmer's how to brew chart.

I then mashed in and the temperature adjusted to 153 in short order. I stirred the mash every 15 minutes or so.

Sixty minutes later I drained off 6 gallons to find that my gravity was at 1.035 instead of the 1.053 I was planning on. I multi-tasked yelling and cursing while sparging an additional 3 gallons.

I boiled for an eternity and left the burner on high to bleed off as much as possible and ended with 1.045 OG.

This was the fourth time through on this recipe, they always taste good, friends and family ask for more, but the wild inconsistency is hugely frustrating.

I'm trying to think of problems with my technique and could use some help. I guess my temp might be a little high, but I thought that would mainly cause problems with attenuation, not the mash.

I'm trying to keep accurate notes and be detailed about what I do, but I can't pin down why my mash is so inconsistent.

Are you doughing in 12 lbs of grain into 8 gallons of water or did I misread your post?

Yeah, I had the same question. 8 gallons is more like the TOTAL amount of water you'll need for that much grain - 3 to mash with, 5 to sparge with.

I like this for calculating my water amounts:
http://brew365.com/mash_sparge_water_calculator.php

This is also a great reference that I think will help you. Maybe skip to the end where it's the Bobby_M method and try that for 1-2 brews and then tweak it to your style if needed:
http://www.suebob.com/brew/Bobby_Mallgrainprimer.pdf

To each their own, but I wouldn't mess with salt additions until you get the rest of the process down. That is unless there is something seriously wrong with your water. I would calibrate all thermometers, pay closer attention to volumes/mash thickness (i use 1.4 ratio for mashes) and try to keep everything else as simple as possible.

Stirring the mash seriously reduces the amount of heat in the mash. By varying the amount of time you stir your mash you vary how much heat you lose which affect the amount of starch that is converted. On top of what else has been said I would stop stirring during the mash.

One other thing to consider (aside from the above) is the mash time.

ayoungrad said:

One other thing to consider (aside from the above) is the mash time.

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It looks as though his mash time is 60 minutes, which I'd say is pretty normal.

Do you fly or batch sparge?

You mentioned that you crushed the grain at the LHBS. Do you have control over the mill's settings?

+1

8 gal would be 2.66:1

6 gal would be 2:1

Sorry for the mistype. I meant I mashed with 6 gallons for a 2:1 ratio.

I had my floating thermo in the mash the whole time and the temp at the end was within two degrees of starting. Palmer says to stir to help wash the water over the grains, so that's what I was doing.

60 minute mash, 30 minute fly sparge are my times.

Because my tun has the space, I was thinking a thinner mash thickness would help prevent stuck sparges and have better temp stability. No?

I don't have control over the mill setting at the shop, but the crush didn't look any less fine than usual.

That ratio still seems pretty high to me. Also, I'd imagine with that much in the mash, you collected a ****load of 1st runnings + then you said you prepped another 3 gallons for sparging with... it's no wonder you had to boil down forever. All your wort seems like it would be really really diluted by then. Mashing with 6 gallons of strike water like that - you're almost doing like brew-in-a-bag grain/water ratio - where they typically wouldn't even sparge.

What I would suggest is to shoot for something like 1.25 qts/lb for your ratio. Then, your sparge volume can be "pretty much" what you want your final batch size to be (as a quick guideline) - say 5 gallons. That way, you'll collect a few gallons from your first runnings, then collect your second runnings til you're at a target pre-boil volume that can be boiled down to 5 gal in an hour, rather than running the burner forever.

It makes no sense to me to collect so much wort and then have to boil forever. I understand your reasoning, but I just don't think you'll have as much to worry about as you think as far as holding temps and stuck sparges.

stating the obvious - but did you adjust for temp?

1.035 at 153F is 1.055 at 60F

The other thing I noticed is that you say you are fly sparging. How are you doing your fly sparge? Are you letting it go until the water is just above the grain bed or are you starting from the beginning and just letting it run? I don't fly sparge personally, but I understand that there's some technique required to do it effectively.

As mentioned before, how and when are you taking your gravity readings? Is 1.053 supposed to be your pre-boil or post-boil gravity?

My efficiency issues cleared up once I stopped crushing the grain at the LHBS.

It makes no sense to me to collect so much wort and then have to boil forever.

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Collecting an overly large amount of wort was not my plan, it was just a last minute attempt to bring my gravity up higher.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the principles of sparging, but I was under the impression that it was only done because of mash tun size. If you have the size to do a brew in a bag type mash, why not do it? Am I way wrong on that? That could be a real epiphany.

stating the obvious - but did you adjust for temp? 1.035 at 153F is 1.055 at 60F

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I suppose I should be more careful, but my method was to fill the test tube and run it under water until the test tube no longer felt warm. The difference between gravity at 60 and gravity and 80 is two points. I know that the final test was at 74. So I suppose our adjusted numbers are 1.037 and 1.046 instead of 1.035 and 1.045. That's still no where near the 1.053 and 1.059 problem.

The other thing I noticed is that you say you are fly sparging. How are you doing your fly sparge? Are you letting it go until the water is just above the grain bed or are you starting from the beginning and just letting it run?

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I was using a splatter screen to break up the flow and filling from the beginning. My grain bed was under the water line by about two to three inches.

I'm beginning to think I'm misunderstanding the purpose and effects of the sparge.